I was using the 737-200 and I was not using the APU or External Power/Bleed Air. After a while, the power went out. The battery had died. Nothing I did could get the power back, including loading the default C172 and getting power and then returning to the 737. I had to exit FSX and start again.

What I found interesting, was that I even switched between the 737-100 (-200, -200ADV, -200C and -200F) and noticed that the ADV was missing its landing gear (as if the activation had failed).

I have submitted a ticket. So Captain Sim will now be aware that this is happening (if they weren't already).

Mark

Captain Sim wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 8:04pm:


I too have the same issue.

Quote:


Are you saying you were using Battery power only? Or were the engines running?

Markoz wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 4:01pm:


1. Does this happens every flight?
2. Are you sure the generators are ON?
3. What happens if you ARE using the the APU or External Power for the startup?

Captain Sim wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 12:00am:


It did happen every time unless I started the APU before I clicked on any FSX menu items. the APU gen was on.
I tried using the external power and air start when this happens but no joy. I tried the same as Markoz, and the default aircraft with engines running and still no battery power and the engines would not start. I even tried the CTRL E... nothing. Shut down FSX and re-started. No issues everything was working. This happened a couple of times until I put in the electric_always_available=1 line in the config. I know it's not realistic or a fix.

Quote:


I'm confused now because you replied to CS that the generators were on. With only battery power then obviously in time they will die (although usually too soon in FS). But with GPU power, APU or generators 1 & 2 on, batteries should not drain.

BTW my battery dies after 5 minutes even with APU power, but I think that is another issue that is being fixed.

Hi mark i managed to create the same on mine by letting the battery drain and then putting on the ground power, when the ground power is on it lights up showing there is ground power and when you flick the switch the power meter changes as it should but nothing else will work.

It's interesting why only 3 people experiencing this issue?
Anyone else?

You mean you loose the power even if the APU Gen is on, or the external power?   Does that battery trick help, from the 727? I didn't run into that problem so far, but I'm running the FSUIPC battery tweak.
FSX models a way too weak battery for all planes, maybe we're seeing this FSX flaw in action. FSUIPC can help or the mentioned tweak from the 727.

Here's the 727 tweak. http://www.captainsim.org/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1315183931/1#1

Here's what FSX thinks is a plane's battery. http://www.public-domain-photos.com/free-cliparts-1-big/electronics/battery/batt...

CoolP wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 4:01pm:

Yes.
But not entirely disappear. Lamps are lit and indicators are working. Works outside lighting. But the starter power is not fed, and ceases to work the vclight (until reload the aircraft).
Here are the overhead. I'm doing something wrong?

AlexArt wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 4:28pm:


But you've just said: "At the same time there is ground power, working APU, batteries are not discharged"
So with GPU or APU ON everything is alright?

But now you've got the power outage WITH the APU generator ON? How comes?

AlexArt wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 4:35pm:


WHEN do you connect the APU or GPU power? Too late if the battely is already dead.

AlexArt wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 3:50pm:

I was able to sit in the cockpit for more than 2 hours using ONLY the Battery. I did NOT turn the APU ON, I did NOT open the Simicons Panel and select EP to provide External Power.

This is how my OH Panel looked:



I even turned the ADF IDENT switch ON (circled on the 2D Radio Panel) to help try to drain power. After more than 2 hours, I got tired of waiting for the power to drain, so I went for a flight.

I have not been able to make it happen again, no matter how hard I try, since I first reported it.

Mark

Markoz wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 5:41pm:


Well, Mark is out 
It's just 3 of you now...

Chigley wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 7:33pm:


In the quote I've highlighted the real reason of the blockout: fsx menu use = paused flight sometimes causes the sys.gau glitch.
Anyone to confirm this?

I also have this problem as just as previously explained.

Jeff

Captain Sim wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 6:54pm:


I have seen this issue discussed for many weeks. People losing elec power after 5 minutes with APU running. Some things still will work - lights, many gauges - but radios go silent and HSI loses power. APU still running, voltage/amps look normal, but no radios, HSI.

Captain Sim wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 6:54pm:


There is discussed the 1.0 In fact

Сhecked WITHOUT using fsx menu or pausing a flight. All the same.

I tried it. Powered by the EP, after 5 minutes, as expected, power was lost. Engine will not start (air from the ground), dome light is not lit. But the panel are lit. Started APU, APU generator to connect - all died out. Absolutely.

The following image is of my OH Panel after using the APU, continuously, for 47 minutes.


I started the APU at 17:39 and this image is at 18:26.

I also tried with the EP/BA, and everything was working fine 30 minutes later.

I'm trying very hard, but I still can't make it do it again.

Mark

Quote:
True.
OR. They could do what I do. I use the Ground (External) Power, until just before pushback, then I start the APU, then pushback and start the engines during the pushback.

Quote:
Why would I do that? I am not using Standby Power. I'm using the APU to provide power.

Have you tried the settings, the way mine are, to see if that gives you more than 11 minutes of power?

Besides, even if that is the case, it does not explain why my power failed that one time when I was using the battery for power only. If I use battery power ONLY now, I still get power for more than two hours.

bud7h7 wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:36am:

I think we need to set everything in the 737 the same. Same model, livery and the same settings (lights, switches and knobs).

That way we are dealing with the same set of rules for e problem.

Mark

Even with electric_always_available = 1 in the .cfg, I'm losing power to radios after about 6 minutes, with APU running. Also when this happens the radio frequencies won't dial, and engines won't start. Amps/volts still look okay, and everything appears to be on but if I shut off the APU generators I can see the Battery is dead.

My APU start precedure:

battery on
hydr B pumps off
DC selector to Batt
Iso valve to auto
#1 fuel pump on
APU start, stabilized
APU gen switches on ***see note below***
apu bleed open
AC selector to APU
position lights on
#1 pack on after 1 minute

I notice when I switch ONE apu generator switch to ON, both "bus off" lights extinguish, instead of only the one relative to each generator switch. Not sure how important that is or not.

Thanks for doing that Mark. I also thought maybe my saved default flight was causing problems with this aircraft.

I have tried saving with the C172 running, as well as cold/dark in the following config:

C172
completely shut down
avionics on
magnetos - I tried "off" and "both"
alternator - tried off and on
brake set

And I tried deleting my default flight to see if that would help.

But I'm also having the 737 issues even if I load the CS cold/dark saved flight. Fortunately the infinite battery option in FSUIPC is an effective workaround even thought the "always_on" entry in the .cfg didn't help me.

No I loaded it from the Load saved flight option from the FSX opening page.

Today I uninstalled/reinstalled again. Still have the same problem, and this time I switched to spot view and noticed no landing gear after battery dies, just like Mark's original post on page 1 and like others have also stated. Sometimes the gear disapears, sometimes it doesn't, but the battery always dies regardless.

Upudate: I now have the same issue with engines running and eng 1&2 generators on / APU off.

I was flying from MIA to MCO and my overspeed meter started clickingat 300. But the red bar was all the way up to 400. And I went to the map. I noticed that some kind of horn was looping after I got back, and all the systems had to be started up again.

But my power didn't just go out. I went to the map first.

I was at ramp last night to fly for my Virtual Airlines with a particular schedule, I had to prepare the flight with chart from C&D and after several minute with APU on I loose my vor Readout and I couldn't start engine.
Did this two time same condition then I tried the third time after one minute I start immediately the engine and I menage to do a short flight.
but I can't use this aircraft  in such condition  At list I need time to prepare a flight.
We need to do a POLL for that?

The poll is incorrect. APU generator is apparently working fine, only the engine will not run. Markoz too all the time indicates how long it all works. But never once wrote, is it possible to start the engines. I also have all the apparently works, but starting the engine is impossible.
We must ask - Can you run the engines after 5-6 minutes of work APU or EP?

Granted, I understand that. About the symptom to be asked because on it you can see there is a problem. Availability of the problem, not all can understand.

Captain Sim wrote on May 1^st, 2012 at 4:25pm:


I have detected this same problem since version 0.8...

Well, just after sending my previous reply, the block happened on start-up for the first leg. I must have taken too long writing, maybe a bit more than 10 minutes.
At the gate APU running, Ground Power on. Upon pushback Ground Power off. Engines wouldn't start. Funnily enough, after pushback, I decided to reengage the Ground Power supply from the menu. This did the trick.

Just to throw my 2 cents into the unified conversation here.

I tested all of this as follows:

1. CLEAN install.  Uninstalled 1.0, deleted any remaining files I found (including saved flights), then re-installed.
2. I loaded the Cold & Dark flight from within FSX.
3. I began the checklist at that point.  I did not go into any menus, did not change the aircraft, did not use Shift+Z to clear the sim info.  I only used Shift+A to move around the flight deck and +/- to zoom in/out.

(* = OK, X = discrepancy from checklist, @ = doesn't make sense to me)

* BATTERY switch - Guard closed
@ DC Meters - on BAT, positive indication on DC Amps
* AC Meters - on APU, Flat
* GALLEY POWER switch - ON
* STANDBY POWER switch - Guard closed
X STANDBY PWR OFF light IS ON
* BUS TRANSFER switch - Guard closed
X TRANSFER BUS OFF light IS ON
X BUS OFF light IS ON
* APU - Start
* APU GENERATOR switches - ON
* BUS OFF lights - extinguished
* TRANSFER BUS OFF lights - extinguished
* LOW OIL QUANTITY light - extinguished
* APU LOW OIL PRESSURE light - extinguished
* APU HIGH OIL TEMPERATURE light - extinguished
* APU OVERSPEED light - extinguished
* AC Meters - on APU, power indicated.
@ DC Meters - on BAT, negative indication shown on DC Amps.
* DC Meters - on STDBY PWR, indications correct.
* AC Meters - on STDBY PWR, indications correct.
* STDBY PWR OFF light - extinguished at this point.

From here, I did the following (I know, it deviates from the checklist)...

WINDOW HEAT - All ON
PITOT STATIC HEAT - Both ON
ENGINE HYDRAULIC PUMPS - OFF
ELECTRIC HYDRAULIC PUMPS - ON
APU BLEED AIR - ON
ENGINE BLEED AIR - Both ON
Left AC PACK - ON
Right AC PACK - ON

NAV1 is already tuned to the SEA VOR.  In this condition, the avionics will fail in about 8 minutes on my machine.  The overhead electrical panel will not change in anyway.  APU is running and indicates power, STDBY PWR indications are correct, BAT will continue to should a negative indication on DC Amps.  Engines will not start.

If I turn off the APU, that's all she wrote.  Nothing in the aircraft will work.

Note: This applies to ground power as well (for me anyway).  If you skip all of the APU items and only use ground power, you will see the same electrical indications and the avionics will fail in the same amount of time.

UPDATE: I verified that under both APU and ground power, leaving window heat, pitot static heat, the electric hydraulic pumps and a single AC pack OFF still results in a failure, but it takes longer.  Roughly 12-15 minutes instead of 6-8 minutes.  Less power drain, I guess.  So, following the checklist to the letter does not resolve the issue.

My original posts are here and all deal with the 1.0 version...http://www.captainsim.org/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1335135522

X STANDBY PWR OFF light IS ON
X TRANSFER BUS OFF light IS ON
X BUS OFF light IS ON

Those are correct. They should illuminate as soon as the Battery is switched on.

Then, when you engage the first Apu gen switch it should extinguish both TRANSFER BUS OFF lights and the BUS OFF light corresponding to that switch, then the second Apu gen switch ON will extinguish the remaining BUS OFF light.

Currently the first Apu gen switched to ON will extinguish all four amber lights, and I can't tell if that's merely a visual bug or an actual electrical error.

BTW, Mark are you certain you don't have FSUIPC infinite battery selected or the electric_always_available=1 in the .cfg?

I only ask because at one time you had the dead battery issue and now you don't, and also you stated that you can run forever on just battery power alone, which should be impossible without some sort of infinite battery value assigned.

bud7h7 wrote on May 7^th, 2012 at 3:00am:


That's fine.  I'm just saying they do not match the checklist.  It's entirely possible the checklist is wrong.

Anyway, with a clean install and no other add-on's or modifications, the process I detailed reproduces the problem every time on my machine.

Mark, do you have the default AI aircraft or 3rd party add-on?
It happens that the parameter "electric_always_avalable=1" works, if there is a AI plane in which it exists.

Markoz wrote on May 7^th, 2012 at 9:13am:


Well, I certainly didn't think you were angry or rude.  I was confused by your post, but I see that my post was confusing.

OK, so, my copy of the Normal Procedures says:

* BATTERY switch - Guard closed
* STANDBY POWER switch - Guard closed
* Verify that the STANDBY PWR OFF light is extinguished.
* BUS TRANSFER switch - Guard closed
* Verify that the TRANSFER BUS OFF lights are extinguished.
* Verify that the BUS OFF lights are extinguished.

As we see, though, the lights that should be extinguished are on.  So, that's why I was saying the actual behavior is different from the checklist.

In my post from yesterday, I said that the behavior may be correct and the checklist wrong.  However, I thought about the 757.  Both the 737 and 757 have an AUTO position for the STANDBY POWER switch.  In the 737, it's set to AUTO with the guard closed.  In the 757, if the switch is in AUTO, standby power is available with just the battery.

If I open the guard and move the standby power switch to BAT, I get standby power.

Now, I'm no Captain Lou, but it seems like the checklist is correct and the aircraft behavior is wrong.  Whether or not that has anything to do with the battery drain, I don't know.

slakr007 wrote on May 7^th, 2012 at 3:52pm:


I don't think so. On the real 732, those lamps operate as they do now on the CS732, except for the possible discrepancy with the Transfer Bus OFF lights and Bus OFF light when the APU gen switches are switched on.

DC amps should also be negative with the selector on BATT.
Should be positive with selector on APU or GRD PWR.

slakr007 wrote on May 7^th, 2012 at 3:58pm:

I was originally thinking, when I saw you say that the DC Meters showed a negative reading (power draining) when the switch is in the BAT position, that this was the cause of your loss of power. But mine does it too, without losing battery power after 2+ hours, so that can't be the problem. When I did do that Battery only test, and could still start the APU, the first thing I looked at was my setting FSUIPC, just in case I had turned it ON, but forgotten about it. It was not the case.

After sitting around for 20 minutes with the APU running and not losing power (still able to start the engines), I'm at a loss for why you (or anyone else) have the problem while I don't. Why did it happen to me (twice) back then, but not since? I sometimes think that it must have been something I did to cause it. Something in the way the switches were set or the order I did it. I honestly don't think I was doing it any different to back then. This all happened before the Part III - Normal Procedures manual came out, and I have changed to doing it accordingly, but it still won't drain the power and prevent me from continuing a flight.

Mark

There is no official fix. Did you try this? I quoted it from the post.

"It did happen every time unless I started the APU before I clicked on any FSX menu items. the APU gen was on.
I tried using the external power and air start when this happens but no joy. I tried the same as Markoz, and the default aircraft with engines running and still no battery power and the engines would not start. I even tried the CTRL E... nothing. Shut down FSX and re-started. No issues everything was working. This happened a couple of times until I put in the electric_always_available=1 line in the config. I know it's not realistic or a fix." Marvic

electric_always_available=1

Hello, thanks for your quick answer.

Do you mean have I tried the "electric always available" fix?  No, not yet.

Is this likely to be something that gets fixed in a future pack do we know?

It is worth noting that if you own a registered version of FSUIPC, you can increase the life of the battery by a factor of X (with 0 (zero) being infinite), which could help with avoiding the problem. In all honesty, I only use this on the Flight1 Cessna Mustang because the battery on that is usually flat before I finish inserting the flight plan!

Hello you have Fsuipc on payware?

electric_always_available=1 did not work for me, I had to use FSUIPC unlimited battery.

Then there is still the problem of gauges/controls locking up occasionally after accessing the FSX menu bar before engines are running.