This is odd... I got everything working, but they course offset indicator says I'm too far right. I went further left and nothing changed (I checked the GPS and put myself too far left, which did nothing). What's happening?

boeing247 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2011 at 3:25am:


If you are talking about the segment of the CDI indicator arrow on the HSI showing to the right of the course arrow, that means you have deviated to the left of the course and must fly to the right of the specified heading/course until the segment begins moving to left to align with the CDI arrow.  If it is showing to the left of the CDI arrow, you have deviated to the right of the course and must turn left to intercept.

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Above a certain offset (should be 10 degrees), the instrument shows you its max deflection of the needle, so you can't see if you are 10 or 70 degrees off for example. This might explain the reaction after "correcting" your course in the way you describe it.

Maybe you want to believe me that the whole navigation thing in aviation is a big (and interesting) book, including some knowledge and maths, together with some rules to learn.
Personally, I get the impression that you've read about two lines of that thick book and though "ah, that must be it, lets fly then", letting this nice book fall back to the floor and entering the cockpit. No offence intended.
We all had (or still have) to start on this topic, that's what makes the flying interesting since you can train and try all kinds of things in the sim. Now, the training comes from actually understanding what is happening. The Learning Center of FSX stays a tip (hint, hint).

So I really, really recommend reading some things after feeding e. g. Google with your interest in "VOR Navigation". For the people who don't like to read, videos will cover the whole thing too, so there actually is quite some stuff to enjoy while the current technique of trial and error together with the short explanations possible in forum posts won't lead to a good end, but a fragmented and diffuse one.   The topic gets described on every good aviation site, no need to copy it into the CS forums as if it was something newly discovered.

If you're up to reading a bit, here's a useful link to enjoy some free available sources. http://www.flightsimbooks.com/

Sadly, the whole FMC driven planes in the sim are often used to let people start the wrong way. They jump in the 767, feed their computers to some extend and let the plane fly itself.
No real Pilot would start this way, they all go from the basics to the advanced things. You won't understand all advanced items until you haven't understood the basics which, for example, the navigation skills are.
I'm learning something new every day, so don't see me as some experienced guy there. But I'm at least aware of where to start.  

Concerning your very special problem (which will be just one in the whole chapter, which isn't a problem of course), it would help to determine which Course you are supposed to go and on which Course you are currently moving. So you can calculate an intercept heading, leading you to the desired Course (and therefore route) in the shortest amount of time.

Ok, here's some offence, but that one with  , so don't get upset.
# Part II — Instrument Flight

   * Chapter 10: The Hazards of Flying On Instruments Without Knowing How
http://www.flightsimbooks.com/flightsimhandbook/

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Call me sissy, please.  

VOR to VOR is great, but the online Controllers appreciate at least some ability to go for an intersection from time to time (at least for the Airliner guys), so my choice stays the also old (but too new for the original 727) INS then, where I can hack in some coordinates of somehow virtual (no station there) waypoints.
Yes, I could do some cross radial readings on the RMI, but that's a lot of work in busy skies (for me) and far away from accurate.
Also, the CS 727 needs a small update to get the FO's instruments working independently. Would be neat to have, the 707 shows how it's done.
Of course, the GPS would be in the newer and retrofitted 727s around and, in the sim, it also allows the very first steps into flying this classic plane.
While the FMC retrofitted variant sadly won't come alive in the sim, I personally can live with the not so original and "sissy"   GPS conversion from CS.
Most loved though? Going INS on her.  

But learning VOR to VOR and all the things around it stays a tip in my eyes. Who would want to be fully dependent on a FMC together with a nice moving map all the time?
I'm having much fun when "guessing" my position with the steam gauges only and then seeing that I was right (or, sometimes, totally way out) about it when I connect the map for some seconds.


For the guys willing to learn and try some VOR Navigation, here's a neat site with an app on it, to "fly" your plane and then see how its position would look like on the instruments. http://www.visi.com/~mim/nav/
Looks small and harmless, but trains your mind if you are new to the thing like I am.

Hey, LOU. That's what I've been trying to do, learn to operate the VOR stuff on the 727. Now, no offense to CoolP, who has been graciously providing me with links to tutorials, but I've read the entire VOR tutorial in FSX, so I know what I'm doing (to some extent, I'm no expert), but my CDI says I way off course to the left, even when I know (by cheating and looking at the GPS) that I'm way off-course to the right. What's going on?

boeing247 wrote on Mar 14^th, 2011 at 3:02am:


Sorry if I am wrong but it sounds like you are confusing the indications of the CDI.  If the CDI bar is to the left of the course arrow, then you are too far to the right of the course and must turn left to intercept.  The course deviation indicator shows the direction of offset from the desired course relative to your current course.  General rule, if the bar is to the left, fly to the left, and when the bar is to the right of center, fly to the right to intercept.  Of course this is backwards when you are flying away from a VOR.

CoolP, once again you hit the nail right on the head with your VOR post above.

I'm just about to sit down to supper, but I'll try to post a simple quick review soon of how to get from A to B via VOR's only!

Lou

A quick look at VOR navigation.

The VOR is a very handy tool to find your way around the sky.

Try to visualize a lighthouse with a beam that spins at 1 RPM. Every time the light beam passes magnetic north there is a bright flash of light to tell you that it is pointing at north. As you look at the lighthouse and see the bright flash you start a stop watch. When the rotating beam of light points to you, observe the stop watch. For this example let's say you see the beam go by you at 15 seconds. You are at 90 degrees from north at 15 seconds, or another way of saying this would be that you are on the 090 degree radial from the lighthouse station.

To go to the lighthouse you would need to track the 15 second (090 degree radial.) If you start to see the watch showing 17 or 18 seconds as the beam passed your position you would be drifting left of course. Does this make sense? If it does, you are starting to visualize how the VOR works.

Here are some things you need to keep in mind...
1. RADIALS radiate from the station.
2. You cannot fly into a radial!  

When you fly using the VOR the OBS and the Compass must be almost the same.

In the example of the lighthouse, above, you are on the 15 second radial which we need to change to degrees so you can use this example and apply it to VOR's. In order to fly TO the lighthouse (VOR) your OBS selection and compass must agree. So the OBS would be set to 270 degrees and now you can fly TO the VOR with to-the-needle sensing. Remember - RADIALS radiate FROM the station. You cannot fly into the station - backwards - on that 090 degree radial because the display on your instrument will be reversed. So, you must dial in the reciprocating or opposite radial so you will get proper needle display. To fly backwards on the radial is called dragging the needle.

Now if I have not made you completely lost here is a look at a typical trip using some VOR's.

The VOR's for this trip are named A, B, C & D. Our trip starts at an airport called Mark's Farm (MARKOZ) not far from VOR-A. We are the GREEN plane. To get to the VOR is easy. Just tune and identify the VOR station. Turn the OBS until the needle centers with a TO indication. The number in the OBS will show you the RECIPROCATING radial, the one on the other side of the VOR. Now, if you just fly that heading you will fly to the station. As you fly, you will need to correct for wind drift. If the plane drifts left of course the needle will move to the right showing you where the selected course is. Make a small correction for the wind. As you near the station the needle will get sensitive and move around quickly. Don't chase the needle, just fly your heading. When you cross the station you will be in the cone of confusion. To fly outbound from station A you will need to fly the 110 degree radial. Dial the OBS so it reads 110 and turn to that heading. If you know the wind already, you can apply a correction to your heading, or just see what the needle says. As you passed over the station, the TO/FROM indicator flipped to FROM showing station passage.

You can follow the trip using the colored planes to see the display in the VOR indicators on the right side of the drawing. I put in the purple plane to show that flying the wrong way will give you the opposite needle indication. If you flip the purple plane to the inbound course, the indicator is correct.



The intersections of HEAVY and LIGHT are made from the radials of VOR D or by the DME from the noted VOR's.

I hope this helps you to understand how to go from VOR to VOR.

Lou