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 25 BULLITIN : UFO SIGHTED BY REAL COMMERCIAL AIRLINE (Read 44268 times)
701151
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Re: BULLITIN : UFO SIGHTED BY REAL COMMERCIAL AIRLINE
Reply #30 - Aug 4th, 2012 at 6:11pm
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Well said. Although Vulcans and star trek are all fantasies and make-believe, it is all possible that in teh extreme rare event that another living race in space who is equal to or exceeding us in technology has no emotion, or no drive to discover.
  

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Re: BULLITIN : UFO SIGHTED BY REAL COMMERCIAL AIRLINE
Reply #31 - Aug 4th, 2012 at 6:58pm
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Something makes me think that you folks are afraid of something.  Grin

SETI projects are running all day long, humanity sends out spacecraft for looking at the planets they can reach, we have some probes flying for decades with the intention to transport knowledge to whoever may find them and then we have two guys trying to cite science and 'forgetting' about vital phrases.
No problem with that, but if a theory speaks about 'life as we know it', it's of no use for other cases, right?   Cool

While I'm sure that the two of you did get this, I seriously wonder what's blocking you. Even more so since I'm talking to very young fellows of course.  Undecided


However, to be read with a  Tongue in mind.
701151 wrote on Aug 4th, 2012 at 6:11pm:
it is all possible that (..) another living race in space who is equal to or exceeding us in technology has no emotion, or no drive to discover.

No need to travel that far. I see two individuals right in front of me with no emotion, or no drive to discover.  Grin Please, join the humans again, Bram and Peter.  Smiley

We are having loads of fun dancing around that monolith.  Cheesy

I'm the one with the hair all over the body and the monkey walk. Wait!  Shocked
  
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Re: BULLITIN : UFO SIGHTED BY REAL COMMERCIAL AIRLINE
Reply #32 - Aug 4th, 2012 at 9:48pm
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I remember that movie, very nice, interesting from a 60's point of view. Although the ending was veeery weird.
  

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Re: BULLITIN : UFO SIGHTED BY REAL COMMERCIAL AIRLINE
Reply #33 - Aug 4th, 2012 at 10:20pm
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Weird is an understatement and I feel your pain, or at least felt it. When I saw it the first time, I really had nothing about it which I thought I could ever like. Turns out, I was watching it without.. watching it. Sounds completely nuts but one can like and even adore some elements, not only on the technical side of things when it comes to the actual age of that film.

Well, to stay on the weird impression. That scene alone may come in very weird if somebody doesn't know the film, right? The monkeys (or is apes correct? I don't know) and the monolith. Loud and.. weird. You name it.

But I wonder if there is any modern science fiction being that full of a message and less full of great CGI stuff or dramatic changes in the story. A part of me thinks that the focus on the cool effects has robbed quite some films the atmosphere or mood.

Hey, you've left one question open, CloudSurfer. When took that thing place you are describing here? Wait, where is your post? Deleted?  Lips Sealed
  
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Re: BULLITIN : UFO SIGHTED BY REAL COMMERCIAL AIRLINE
Reply #34 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 2:54am
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You can talk and throw all the scientific mumbo jumbo you like. I still say we are not alone in the universe, regardless of what the scientists may say. Scientists DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING, so they could be wrong. It's that plain and simple. Besides, what they tell us, is nothing more than their conclusions based their study of their field of science and many scientists studying the same field, disagree. How can that be? After all, they are studying the same thing. Huh

So the scientists may be right, or they may be wrong, but we'll only know if and when we eventually make contact with them. In the mean time, I'm on the side that there is life on other planets, in other solar systems, in other galaxies, that we don't even know about yet. Chances are that we will have destroyed this planet and ourselves before that happens.
  

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Re: BULLITIN : UFO SIGHTED BY REAL COMMERCIAL AIRLINE
Reply #35 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 9:55am
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Mark, you shouldn't allow the misinterpretation of the folks to distract you. In science, you will hardly find two opinions being the same. Often enough, and especially on the topics with a lot of assumptions included, they will even contradict each other. That's the very nature of science.

Well, if you ever saw two professors discussing items, you get to know how wrong a public audience sums up the word 'discussion' by the way. It's not arguing, it's the very essence of progress, of doubt, of force to drive curiosity. And all those theories we sometimes relate to being facts are the outcome of such discussions. A current consensus (somehow) and science will always look for later proof (or disproof), whereas religion postulates to already 'have proven'.

I absolutely agree to your personal viewpoint when it comes to the chances for being the only life in space. I must admit though, I don't want that to be true of course. So I'm biased. In fact, I would be robbed of a lot of my personal motivation and hope if there ever was a proof that the humans are the the most advanced life in the universe and that Earth is the only living sphere.

Even more so since I've developed an aversion against anthropocentrism which, by the way, our two friends may show in a more or less severe manner. That fact alone is a shame and you folks can expect me to really wonder about the reasons for that (in my eyes) very wrong attitude. Especially among the younger folks.

Carl Sagan once warned people about developing that attitude, but that's from decades back. So seeing 'fresh' minds coming up with it (or tendencies) is a warning sign of some kind. As mentioned before, it blocks a huge amount of paths for the mind and sort of acts as an opponent of open science. Hence his warning, so it's not about not tolerating other opinions. Everyone is free to block himself.  Cheesy


But, to be more on your post, you are once again true. Some scientist may end up in a sort of 'I know it all, even the unknown' attitude, leading to follow-up attitudes of all kind, including to look at non scientists as being unworthy to even comprehend simple things.

Lets say those aren't the guys we can look up to. But we do have some interesting minds in our society and those folks do have a sense for 'knowing that we know nothing'. They also bring in some idealism or skepticism, which, again, is vital for science to continue in all possible directions.


By the way. I'm sure you folks know this one special photograph. I'll leave it here and the text from NASA. Can you spot the Earth, can you see 'us'?  Roll Eyes


Quote:
This narrow-angle color image of the Earth, dubbed 'Pale Blue Dot', is a part of the first ever 'portrait' of the solar system taken by Voyager 1. The spacecraft acquired a total of 60 frames for a mosaic of the solar system from a distance of more than 4 billion miles from Earth and about 32 degrees above the ecliptic. From Voyager's great distance Earth is a mere point of light, less than the size of a picture element even in the narrow-angle camera. Earth was a crescent only 0.12 pixel in size. Coincidentally, Earth lies right in the center of one of the scattered light rays resulting from taking the image so close to the sun. This blown-up image of the Earth was taken through three color filters -- violet, blue and green -- and recombined to produce the color image. The background features in the image are artifacts resulting from the magnification.

http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/view.php?id=52392

All I can say is 'insignificant', which just means that a humble attitude is the preferred one when it comes to the humans speaking about the rest of the (known) universe and everything else surrounding them.

There are more stars in the universe than there are sand grains among all the beaches of planet Earth. So if you took away Earth from the universe, it would be even less significant than taking away one grain of sand.  Shocked
  
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Re: BULLITIN : UFO SIGHTED BY REAL COMMERCIAL AIRLINE
Reply #36 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 10:33pm
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Mark, considering that we are the only life in the universe is not by any means being close minded, rather, it is based on all the statistics related with life, its complexity, it's fragility, and the fact that just as no two things in the universe are repeated twice, it is possible that the first cell which all things came from 3.7 billion years ago was perhaps the first, and even only occurrence of life. Life isn't like an element, it isn't spit out of the stars, it requires complex structure, energy, and basic elements. Because of this, it first sprouted somewhere in the universe, and it isn't like DNA with organelles and cell walls, membranes, and cytoplasm just float around ready to be given life. I'm not close minded, I use logic that I have carefully thought about. Searching for e.t life in our universe is the only 'scientific' thing we do in which we have no evidence of it's existence. Just look at it, our earth is within the magical spot for life, and in our whole solace system, we are the only ones with more water than a swimming pool. If life exists 5 billion light years away, that means that would should have signs of life everywhere in mars, and on the moon, but we don't. How could the closest life be say 10 million light years away, with distances this great, it would have to be abundant. Our star is so far away from the nearest promising earth-like planet, Kepler-22b, which is 600 light years away. That is 2,421,964,800,000 miles away, and it is incredibly hard to believe that if life exists there (Kepler-22b is in the habitable zone, but we have no idea what it's like) that somehow it made a trek that long and far from out earth, or from ours to theirs, or from in between without perishing. Life, on an asteroid or comet going only between 40-100,000 miles per hour, it would take over 1 million years for that to get from earth to Kepler-22b traveling at 100,000 miles per second (twice as fast as an average asteroid). Plus distances could be greater, but even if they were one-eight the distance, that would be 127,000 years, too long for those cells or basic organisms to survive the almost absolute-zero temperature of deep space, and then somehow arriving on that planet alive.


CoolP wrote on Aug 5th, 2012 at 9:55am:
Mark, you shouldn't allow the misinterpretation of the folks to distract you. In science, you will hardly find two opinions being the same. Often enough, and especially on the topics with a lot of assumptions included, they will even contradict each other. That's the very nature of science.



This is not why I think, but why I know that this global warming hysteria is a load of B.S. if you have all these scientists in agreement about something, it isn't natural, it means there's only greed for funding behind it.

“Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you're being had.”

- Michael Crichton

  

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Re: BULLITIN : UFO SIGHTED BY REAL COMMERCIAL AIRLINE
Reply #37 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 12:38am
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701151 wrote on Aug 5th, 2012 at 10:33pm:
I'm not close minded, I use logic that I have carefully thought about.

The same logic which lets you state dimensions and formulas wrong and the 'careful thoughts' leading you to jump on anything harming your personal view on the world of lets say the aviation business, Peter?  Roll Eyes Open question, not just within the limits of this thread though.

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Searching for e.t life in our universe is the only 'scientific' thing we do in which we have no evidence of it's existence.

'Evidence' as a word being used by someone praising his own logics has a certain value. I just don't know which.  Huh

But, more on the case, why not start asking folks at a local research facility about what they think of lets say a cure for HIV or cancer, a future way of producing energy without ripping the planet apart or just the foreseeable demise of social integrity due to a lack of resources and, hopefully, successful ways to deal with it?

What's their 'evidence for success' if there is something like that? You know, just to get a feel for the word. Also ask them about chances and how one can estimate those. And don't forget what motivates them and the folks paying the funds.

On a wider scale, why not look on how prominent guys think about the chances of life beyond the boarders of capitalism or nuclear war? Take Stephen Hawking, how did he come to the conclusion that, in a mathematical view, there is no way to deny a possibility since the value is clearly between 0 and 1. Just means that the ones denying are as wrong as the ones 'knowing' that there is something out there.

Keep asking about those things and your strange view on the word may hopefully change. Nobody in science stops of there is uncertainty. No, that's where science actually starts! Right between the 0 and the 1. So stop believing and thinking in fixed ways and admit that there is a lot to know about. That's the spirit and just these days the next Mars explorer is about to land. Ask them why! Ok, here's a hint.  Cool
Quote:
Its as-signment: Investigate whether conditions have been favorable for microbial life and for preserving clues in the rocks about possible past life.

NASA fact sheet. http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/fact_sheets/mars-science-laboratory.pdf

Guess what's the name of the vehicle. Curiosity!  Cheesy
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/index.html


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This is not why I think, but why I know that this global warming hysteria is a load of B.S. if you have all these scientists in agreement about something, it isn't natural, it means there's only greed for funding behind it.

So we have the environmental concerns being declared as  'B.S.' while, at the same time, surely being a proud supporter of the 'war on terror' and the billions being spend without any greed for funding in place.  Roll Eyes Ah, I see, the logics again.  Tongue

The same logics which let 'us' built thousands of nuclear warheads (we didn't had much terror back then, so what else could we do?), to blow up the planet several times. What was the evidence basis of that move again? I'm lost, but I'm sure it was very important and I'm even more sure that it still is very expensive.


Markoz wrote on Aug 5th, 2012 at 2:54am:
Chances are that we will have destroyed this planet and ourselves before that happens.

In that case, we had a least a good investment. Well, not in my book, but in quite some as it seems.
  
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Re: BULLITIN : UFO SIGHTED BY REAL COMMERCIAL AIRLINE
Reply #38 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 1:23am
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It says here in this book that the Creator loves us ALL!


Maybe even if you're not carbon based!  Shocked  Kiss

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Re: BULLITIN : UFO SIGHTED BY REAL COMMERCIAL AIRLINE
Reply #39 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 1:26am
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Is the creator sitting in front of the boy?  Shocked I knew it! He is big, old and um grey.  Huh

By the way. 3hrs to the landing of that Mars explorer. http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/index.html
  
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Re: BULLITIN : UFO SIGHTED BY REAL COMMERCIAL AIRLINE
Reply #40 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 2:12am
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LOU wrote on Aug 6th, 2012 at 1:23am:
It says here in this book that the Creator loves us ALL!
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/773/loven.png

Maybe even if you're not carbon based!  Shocked  Kiss

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Reminds me of the Big Bang Theory episodes where one character is building a model of the DNA of a silicon-based life form, and his born-again Christian mother says, "But still intelligently designed by a Creator, right?"  Grin



And by the way, microbes can survive the harsh conditions of space. Look up "tardigrades".
  

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Re: BULLITIN : UFO SIGHTED BY REAL COMMERCIAL AIRLINE
Reply #41 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 2:16am
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Evidence is a material thing, something that can provide for hypotheses, to lead us towards an end result. It can be the pugmark of a Tiger, drops of blood, a video, a recording, or a fingerprint, to name a few. We know that HIV is a virus, Human Immunodeficiancy Virus, and that it is, in theory, curable, as we cure other viral ailment as well. We know there are alternative sources of power: wind, solar, hydroelectric, but these sources aren't ways to power a nation of our size, with our consumption and our infrastructure. We have the access to nuclear power, to natural gas, and when supplemented with these 'renewable' power sources, our future will be secure.

The reason we acquire and stockpile all those nuclear weapons? Because there was another superpower named the United Soviet Social Republic, the Soviet Union, and it was they who acquired equal or more weapons of equal or greater caliber, and to have such an unstable and dangerous threat be a superpower, and to be the greatest threat to the United States and democratic western world, it isn't logical, it isn't stupid, it is foolish not to be as equally prepared as they are, because if we run out before the run out, or they destroy what we have in one place, any victory, and chance to stop them , is over.

The War on Terror was and still is a necessary measure to ensure the safety and security of both the United States and the world. The difference between it an every other war our country and world has faced is that there is no one country, city, or military base to attack. They attacked us on our soil, killing 2,977 civilians, the worst attack in the United States since Pearl Harbor, resulting in more casualties, all civilian. Following an attack, a country with the means must attack back to defend itself; the enemy was Al-Qaeda, and theyaren't a country, or a city, or a military force. They are a vastly interconnected yet sparcely located group that has no headquarters, no base of operations, and no resources aside from money and men. Their leader, as well as almost the rest of them were easily defended by hiding out in the Indus Mountains of pakistan and Afghanistan. What we did was necessary: we had to destroy those who harmed us, and prevent it from happening again, to both us and anyone else. We went into Iraq because it was thought they had WMDs, as did Libya, Syria, and others. They ended up not finding any (some may have existed), but the removal of Hussein was a move that wasn't bad. The mistake taken was that we not only dismantled the regeim, but we dismantled their military, which was the greatest blunder. By taking apart that system, there was no organized body in which to give power to, and to make sure bad things didn't happen. Democracy doesn't work in Muslim society (Turkey is an exception, seeing how western they are), and the idea of installing a successful, effecient democracy that would self-maintain itself was a bad idea, punctuated by the removal of our forces, which were the glue keeping the government in its slippery place. They say we did it for oil, and that was a consideration, but not without importance. Of course we care about oil; any industrialized nation needs oil, it runs our cars, planes, trains, and even produces power and heat. Without it, our society couldn't function. To say we had no grounds for the  War on Terror is a sign of poor understanding of the situation. It took 10 years to locate Osama Bin Laden, because he wasn't hiding in the Indus Mountains of Afghanistan or Pakistan, but because the Pakistani government was hiding our greatest enemy, and our 'ally' was not an ally. The things we do in Afghanistan to search and destroy Al-Qaeda are necessary, for that organisation is our enemy, and we cannot have them in strength. Some seek to put democracy in Afghanistan, but it will never work. Since the  times of Alexander the Great, the region has been an ungovernable ground, and will forever remain that way. The War on Terror is not something you can say was a mistake; mistakes were made, as with any large action, but its outcomes provided for the safety of ours, and everyone else's nations.

He wasn't a scientist, nor a physicist, nor a prestigious historian, but he was a highly educated man, who expended much of his time in doing vast amounts of research in what he wrote, and he was a very intelligent, wise man. Much like Mark Twain. Intelligence and wisdom are different that knowledge and education. Being educated doesn't make you intelligent or wise (not to downplay Mr. Hawking by any means).

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“Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled.”

-Michael Crichton
  

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Re: BULLITIN : UFO SIGHTED BY REAL COMMERCIAL AIRLINE
Reply #42 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 2:30am
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boeing247 wrote on Aug 6th, 2012 at 2:12am:
And by the way, microbes can survive the harsh conditions of space. Look up "tardigrades".


I could name a couple of Biology Class mates that actually believed in the Panspermia Theory, aka the arrival to Earth of microbes and bacteria-type organisms by meteorites that lead to the first species. Mmmm........................................................................
  

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Re: BULLITIN : UFO SIGHTED BY REAL COMMERCIAL AIRLINE
Reply #43 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 2:54am
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701151 wrote on Aug 6th, 2012 at 2:16am:
our future will be secure.

Erm, are you still with us?  Huh Feels a bit like all US stereotypes converged into one single spot and person, later resulting in your post. What the heck did I just read?!

Well, lets leave it that way and hope for the better. I actually wished you hadn't shown me that part of the US. I will stick with the other ones, being glad they are still there.

Following Mark's concerns.
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Chances are that we will have destroyed this planet and ourselves before that happens.

And with that, lets blow off some steam.  Roll Eyes
  
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Re: BULLITIN : UFO SIGHTED BY REAL COMMERCIAL AIRLINE
Reply #44 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 2:58am
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R. Aranda S. wrote on Aug 6th, 2012 at 2:30am:
I could name a couple of Biology Class mates that actually believed in the Panspermia Theory, aka the arrival to Earth of microbes and bacteria-type organisms by meteorites that lead to the first species. Mmmm........................................................................

So we can't call ourselves earthlings then?  Cheesy
  
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