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tweaking flight dynamics, adding more thrust (Read 7416 times)

413x3 Full Member Offline Posts: 25 Joined: Jun 8^th, 2009	tweaking flight dynamics, adding more thrust May 8^th, 2010 at 6:18am	Print Post
	The CS727 is just too underpowered for my tastes. The 727 was a rocket, this is a slow lumbering beast. Still fun to fly though. Any small tweaks I can do to get the thrust more realistic? Thanks David


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mendoza Full Member Offline Posts: 33 Joined: Aug 20^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: tweaking flight dynamics, adding more thrust Reply #1 - May 10^th, 2010 at 5:31pm	Print Post
	David, I also agree with your, I'm waiting also answer this question. I'm curious Cheers

	Intel Core 2 QX9770 @ 3800Mhz \| 8GB DDR3 @ 1266Mhz \| nVidia GTX480 @ 700Mhz \| 22" LCD Monitor @ 120Hz \| Raptor 300Gb HDD \| 60Gb SSD for FSX only \| Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit&&&&Flight Sim X Deluxe & Acceleration&&757-200/300/Freighter&&767-300/200&&727-100/200/Freighter&&707-300&&C-130 X-perience All-in-One Pack&&B-52 Driver
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delta dog Full Member Offline Posts: 15 Joined: Mar 4^th, 2010	Re: tweaking flight dynamics, adding more thrust Reply #2 - May 10^th, 2010 at 5:50pm	Print Post
	Sorry guys, the 727 is a "lumbering beast" at MGTOW. The 100 model at light weights is much better. Can't tell which engines the sim has but that made a lot of difference. There were several engine configurations. JT8-7 JT8-9 JT8-15 JT8-17R. The most powerful 727 that I have seen was in Deltas paint shop in Atlanta about 15 yrs ago. It was a 100 with MD90 engines at 1 and 3 and a -15 in the center. The cockpit was part glass also. I beleive it belonged to the Gettys family. Would have loved to fly that thing.


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fred_garvin Full Member Offline Posts: 9 Joined: Nov 9^th, 2009	Re: tweaking flight dynamics, adding more thrust Reply #3 - May 10^th, 2010 at 8:30pm	Print Post
	I have adjusted the 727-200's aircraft config. � The thrust scalar to be specific. �I was not really looking for more speed as much as a little better ceiling. � At my FSpassenger wts, I was falling out of the sky at 26,000 ft. �I bumped the thrust scalar from 1 �to 1.1 and it does make a good bit of difference. I should say I adhere to the EPR numbers on this chart http://www.boeing-727.com/Data/engine/engdata.html �which can certainly make it a challenge. � If you look at the aircraft config is says a static thrust of �15500 lbs which would make it the �-15 �version of the engine. I did read some former Piedmont Airline pilots speaking about altitude and speed. � very early on they might cruise their brand new -100's as fast as M.8 �but that was soon toned down to M.74-.78 �once gas prices became a factor. The 727 was certainly not a high altitude aircraft, they said 31-33,000 was pretty common for operational flights.� As delta dog said, at heavy wts it is a fuel guzzling brute I think it takes a lot of attention to flight profiles as well as patience to fly it efficiently � To me efficiency is the key to getting the most out of it. �Enough fuel to make the trip with a planned reserve and no more Anyway, I get around 28-30 thousand ft comfortable cruise altitude and around M.74-75 �using the chart EPR and the small change. Thats close enough for me. �If I did change anything else it probably would not be thrust, I have come to enjoy those long takeoff rolls!


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Markoz CS Team Offline Posts: 12368 Location: Victoria, Australia Joined: Apr 24^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: tweaking flight dynamics, adding more thrust Reply #4 - May 10^th, 2010 at 11:50pm	Print Post
	fred_garvin wrote on May 10^th, 2010 at 8:30pm: At my FSpassenger wts, I was falling out of the sky at 26,000 ft. �I bumped the thrust scalar from 1 �to 1.1 and it does make a good bit of difference. I have flown the 727-100 with the following configuration: Empty Weight = 87600 lbs Payload = 20310 lbs Fuel = 51462 lbs Gross Weight = 159372 (MGW = 161000 lbs, so I'm only 1628 lbs under that) and I was able to reach FL280 quite easily. When the fuel in the centre tank reached the same as the wing tanks, I chose that time to climb to FL320. I had no trouble reaching it. I actually thought I should have been flying at a higher altitude. Mark EDIT: It is now a few hours later and I'm doing a flight with the 727-200 close to its maximum weight (209071lbs). It does take a long time to get to FL280. The last 2000ft were at a climb rate of about 500 fpm and a speed of ~250 KIAS. But I still got there. With the fuel at approximately 42000lbs I did a climb to FL320 once again it was around 500 fpm and ~250 KIAS. It certainly isn't as zappy as the 727-100.

	Mark Fletcher PC: i7 10700K @3.8/5.1GHz \| 64GB DDR4 3200 \| 12GB RTX 4070 Super \| 32" LCD Monitor \| 1TB SSD & 2x2TB SSD \| Win 11 Pro - FSX/FSX-SE/P3D3/P3D4/P3D5/P3D6/MSFS2020 15.6" Gaming Laptop: i7 7700HQ \| 32GB DDR4 \| 6GB GTX 1060 \| 256GB SSD & 1TB HDD \| Win 10 Pro 64bit - FSX-SE/P3D4
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413x3 Full Member Offline Posts: 25 Joined: Jun 8^th, 2009	Re: tweaking flight dynamics, adding more thrust Reply #5 - May 12^th, 2010 at 11:56pm	Print Post
	I just remember the another company 727 for Fs9 having so much power I had to be sure to throttle back after lift-off. Now I try with the Cs 727F, half fuel, half cargo, and can barely take off on a long runway. I don't know what I'm doing wrong


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JETPILOT Full Member Offline Posts: 87 Joined: Mar 11^th, 2009	Re: tweaking flight dynamics, adding more thrust Reply #6 - May 13^th, 2010 at 9:34am	Print Post
	fred_garvin wrote on May 10^th, 2010 at 8:30pm: I have adjusted the 727-200's aircraft config. � The thrust scalar to be specific. �I was not really looking for more speed as much as a little better ceiling. � At my FSpassenger wts, I was falling out of the sky at 26,000 ft. �I bumped the thrust scalar from 1 �to 1.1 and it does make a good bit of difference. I should say I adhere to the EPR numbers on this chart http://www.boeing-727.com/Data/engine/engdata.html �which can certainly make it a challenge. � If you look at the aircraft config is says a static thrust of �15500 lbs which would make it the �-15 �version of the engine. I did read some former Piedmont Airline pilots speaking about altitude and speed. � very early on they might cruise their brand new -100's as fast as M.8 �but that was soon toned down to M.74-.78 �once gas prices became a factor. The 727 was certainly not a high altitude aircraft, they said 31-33,000 was pretty common for operational flights.� As delta dog said, at heavy wts it is a fuel guzzling brute I think it takes a lot of attention to flight profiles as well as patience to fly it efficiently � To me efficiency is the key to getting the most out of it. �Enough fuel to make the trip with a planned reserve and no more Anyway, I get around 28-30 thousand ft comfortable cruise altitude and around M.74-75 �using the chart EPR and the small change. Thats close enough for me. �If I did change anything else it probably would not be thrust, I have come to enjoy those long takeoff rolls! How do you adhere to the chart you posted when the thrust levers when firewalled won't go past 1.98 when the TO EPR at 59F @ SL should be 2.10/2.12 and that's still not firewall power. In the real plane with TO power set at 2.10/2.12 there is still more thrust available. So I'm a little confused. The 727 in any form even with the Super 27 conversion wasn't a great climber. We had a 727-200 with -7 engines. We called it the -150. If we lost an engine going out of Bogata at V1 I would have shat my pants. The -9, were only marginally better climbers. The 727-ADV with the -15's were better yet but still not great performers.


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fred_garvin Full Member Offline Posts: 9 Joined: Nov 9^th, 2009	Re: tweaking flight dynamics, adding more thrust Reply #7 - May 15^th, 2010 at 6:42pm	Print Post
	JETPILOT wrote on May 13^th, 2010 at 9:34am: fred_garvin wrote on May 10^th, 2010 at 8:30pm: I have adjusted the 727-200's aircraft config. � The thrust scalar to be specific. �I was not really looking for more speed as much as a little better ceiling. � At my FSpassenger wts, I was falling out of the sky at 26,000 ft. �I bumped the thrust scalar from 1 �to 1.1 and it does make a good bit of difference. I should say I adhere to the EPR numbers on this chart http://www.boeing-727.com/Data/engine/engdata.html �which can certainly make it a challenge. � If you look at the aircraft config is says a static thrust of �15500 lbs which would make it the �-15 �version of the engine. I did read some former Piedmont Airline pilots speaking about altitude and speed. � very early on they might cruise their brand new -100's as fast as M.8 �but that was soon toned down to M.74-.78 �once gas prices became a factor. The 727 was certainly not a high altitude aircraft, they said 31-33,000 was pretty common for operational flights.� As delta dog said, at heavy wts it is a fuel guzzling brute I think it takes a lot of attention to flight profiles as well as patience to fly it efficiently � To me efficiency is the key to getting the most out of it. �Enough fuel to make the trip with a planned reserve and no more Anyway, I get around 28-30 thousand ft comfortable cruise altitude and around M.74-75 �using the chart EPR and the small change. Thats close enough for me. �If I did change anything else it probably would not be thrust, I have come to enjoy those long takeoff rolls! How do you adhere to the chart you posted when the thrust levers when firewalled won't go past 1.98 when the TO EPR at 59F @ SL should be 2.10/2.12 and that's still not firewall power. In the real plane with TO power set at 2.10/2.12 there is still more thrust available. So I'm a little confused. The 727 in any form even with the Super 27 conversion wasn't a great climber. We had a 727-200 with -7 engines. We called it the -150. If we lost an engine going out of Bogata at V1 I would have shat my pants. The -9, were only marginally better climbers. The 727-ADV with the -15's were better yet but still not great performers. Sorry to have confused you Sir. I adhere as close as possible to the charts, I find it adds to the experience. As I said, close enough for me. If they left available power there would be dozens of us Grognards complaining its overpowered � If its not perfect I am glad you mention the true numbers so they can be updated. But if CS doesn't get to it I am not going to lose sleep over it. �They have to move on sometime or they are out of business. In my opinion it is still the best 727 simulation out there for MSFS and I paid 10 Euros for it. I would love to hear any 727 war stories you have to share. � Bogota is one of my favorite cities in FS. �I flew with some friends for a VA setup in the Andes mountains area of Northern �South America in HS 748s Lots of fun. Particularly if you use the default ATC!


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