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 10 Fuel System and Load up problems (Read 8233 times)
CoastalDriver
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Fuel System and Load up problems
Oct 2nd, 2011 at 11:11am
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I have just noted that the FSX fuel/payload submenu to load fuel/payload for the 707-300 does not show the correct number of tanks on my installation. I have only one tip tank or reserve and it is the right tank I cannot therefore change the fuel loaded into the tip or reserve tanks as per the schematic or aircraft design. Does any one else have this problem. I have reinstalled the aircraft several times without any change.

Second issue relates to the aircraft model when selected loading without any problem but none of the engines are running even though the default aircraft used on FSX startup had its engines running. CTL+E to start always results in only 1, 3,4 engines firing up automatically and not 2, sometimes it is 3 that does not start and sometimes it is 1 so the non auto start is random.

I have submitted a ticket but just wondered if anyone noted this fuel tank discrepancy and engine start problem or is it my system?
  
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Markoz
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Re: Fuel System and Load up problems
Reply #1 - Oct 2nd, 2011 at 3:48pm
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Sorry, but I can't help you with the missing Fuel Tank, I've never sen that. All I can suggest is to reinstall it using the repair option to see if that fixes it.

For the engine start. Try starting them using this method: http://www.captainsim.org/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1286115031/1#1

Mark
  

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jeffk19
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Re: Fuel System and Load up problems
Reply #2 - Oct 2nd, 2011 at 5:19pm
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Coastaldriver: make sure you scroll down within the fuel menu. the 2nd tip tank update block is below.

Jeff
  
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CoastalDriver
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Re: Fuel System and Load up problems
Reply #3 - Oct 3rd, 2011 at 12:38am
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Thanks MarkOz, reload of FSX now has brought up a drop down list properly of the tanks with a slider control - seems to be a windows issue (the way windows draws windows not WIN generally). Not sure but I have the Bojote tweak cfg file and an external frame limiter and while FSX runs very well like this it does seem to be creating some conflicts when you change screens (aka window display) I have also noted that REX weather wants to take over the whole process until it is completely loaded up and this does appear to cause some conflicts.

Not sure about the engine start issue as going back to my default aircraft (the Trike) loading that and saving again with engine running seems to have an issues with CS 707 load up which for some reason on my PC is preferencing to no engines runnning (fine for a ramp start but a pain if you just want to do a quick fly around or check flight). When I say problem if I move from trike to 707, no engines are running, then if I select the C172 it basically loads and the engine shuts down immediately.

I am not sure but does the 707 load no engine runnings, reason I ask is that If I get out of FSX then reload the trike, the select the 727 it loads up fine with engines running etc. but it is only when I select the 707 that I get this no engines running situation. I also noted that a circuit breaker check also shows a lot of them pulled when this configuration occurs. Weird.
  
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Markoz
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Re: Fuel System and Load up problems
Reply #4 - Oct 3rd, 2011 at 6:20am
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CoastalDriver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2011 at 12:38am:
I am not sure but does the 707 load no engine runnings, reason I ask is that If I get out of FSX then reload the trike, the select the 727 it loads up fine with engines running etc. but it is only when I select the 707 that I get this no engines running situation. I also noted that a circuit breaker check also shows a lot of them pulled when this configuration occurs. Weird.

Unfortunately, it sounds like "normal" for the 707. It does that to me all the time. Sad

This is how I start a flight in the 707:

1. Create/load the flight using the FS Flight Planner.
2. Work out the fuel required for the flight.
3. Set the fuel quantity in the Aircraft > Fuel and Payload > Fuel
4. Now I am ready to start my flight. I do not start my engines before doing the three items above!
5. I try not to access the menu again as sometimes it resets some things. It wouldn't be the fiurst time it has turned the Center fuel tank pumps on when it is empty cause two engines to flame out!

Mark
  

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CoastalDriver
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Re: Fuel System and Load up problems
Reply #5 - Oct 4th, 2011 at 4:05am
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MarkOz, thanks for the response. Seems that is the way it is, makes you do all the checks and work through the systems, I found out that the CTL+E start problem in this config will not happen properly until the circuit breakers are all reset, some of the lables are illegible so a bit hard.

Good tip about the fuel, way to go from now on. It has taken a bit of reading up on the fuel system to get a good feel for it but it seems the way to operate the 707 is to burn the central tank as quickly as possible then run down the main wing tanks then burn the reserves then go back to the mains again.

I was a little perplexed as to the open cross feed from no 2 tank in most fuel tank used configurations even though the main feed was from the central for example, at first I presumed that No2 tank was perhaps designed to function as a holding tank (some aircraft actually have a holding tank on one side on one engine only like that) but it appears from engineering  notes I read elsewhere that the xfeed on for 2 is to keep the fuel transfer system manifold pressurised.

Fascinating that with all the detail on performance and notes elsewhere nobody has reproduced the table for landing or Vthresh. Thanks for putting up the picture of glareshield numbers (even if they are for a 720B) they will do and I have put them all into a table.

707 has to be driven quickly it seems at high weights but becomes quite tame once the weight comes down guess that was how the 707 test pilot barrelled roll the beast many moons ago.
  
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Markoz
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Re: Fuel System and Load up problems
Reply #6 - Oct 4th, 2011 at 2:01pm
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CoastalDriver wrote on Oct 4th, 2011 at 4:05am:
MarkOz, thanks for the response. Seems that is the way it is, makes you do all the checks and work through the systems, I found out that the CTL+E start problem in this config will not happen properly until the circuit breakers are all reset, some of the lables are illegible so a bit hard.
At one stage I really thought those circuit breakers did something too! When I had a NAV lights problem. Whether those circuit breakers are in or out, makes no difference to mine. I have flown long haul flights with them in and with them out (because I forgot about them) and it made no difference at all to the aircraft systems.

The 707 is  beautiful plane to fly, once you get used to it. It's a big favourite of mine!

I created a reference file that includes the recommended (optimum) altitudes at various weights for the 707. In truth, I need to lower it by about 1000-2000 feet as it struggles to reach the actual flights. I'm just too lazy to redo them (which is very easy to do too). Wink

Mark
  

Mark Fletcher



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LOU
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727,707,747,757,767=
40years of Boeings

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Re: Fuel System and Load up problems
Reply #7 - Oct 4th, 2011 at 8:37pm
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Maybe you should have a look at the 707 fuel use procedure...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/48246549/707fueltut

Lou
  

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CoastalDriver
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Re: Fuel System and Load up problems
Reply #8 - Oct 4th, 2011 at 10:19pm
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Thanks Lou, got that file now and very helpful. Transfer process works like a charm.

Now if I could only get the lights to work as well!
  
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Markoz
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Re: Fuel System and Load up problems
Reply #9 - Oct 5th, 2011 at 2:54am
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LOU wrote on Oct 4th, 2011 at 8:37pm:
Maybe you should have a look at the 707 fuel use procedure...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/48246549/707fueltut

Lou

I got that one quite a while ago.
  

Mark Fletcher



PC: i7 10700K @3.8/5.1GHz | 64GB DDR4 3200 | 12GB RTX 4070 Super | 32" LCD Monitor | 1TB SSD & 2x2TB SSD | Win 11 Pro - FSX/FSX-SE/P3D3/P3D4/P3D5/P3D6/MSFS2020
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CoastalDriver
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Question for LOU
Reply #10 - Oct 5th, 2011 at 8:04pm
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LOU can you recall the usual fuel loading used for domestic or mid range hops in the US with the 707 by any chance. I guess given the balance issue in the 707 there would have been a preference for loading fuel in these birds.

My reasoning is that for a short hop here in OZ like NZ to Australia the flight time is only 3.5 hrs give or take and that could be managed on the main wing tanks only with say about an hour reserve in the centre tank.

Too much fuel on board leaves you with a very high Vthresh and a long landing run as a result.
  
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harerton
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Re: Fuel System and Load up problems
Reply #11 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 5:05am
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Hi everybody,

I have written the 707 fuel system tutorial quite a while ago. Although written with the HJG models in mind, it wss based on a real manual.

I am really happy that it has helped CS707 users!
  

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