Markoz wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 5:41am:


Mark

What altitude did you use? I tried 14000 ASL but I think that is too high. On the HSI map the T/C was beyond the T/D. Left up to the FMC I think it became confused. Even though I had entered 6000 ASL before T/D the plane tried to climb to 14000 ASL after the T/D. I disengaged VNAV and controlled the descent myself. On a flight several days ago I used 12000 ASL and was able to use VNAV with no issues, I think 14000 ASL is too high for this short of flight. 12000 ASL gave me about 10 miles between T/C and T/D and eliminated the overlap of T/C and T/D.

Michael Cubine

How is the plane going to navigate from the end of the EHAM SID to the transition and ILS Approach to 25R if you don't use a EBBR STAR. Try RWY 22 at EHAM and use Mark's flightplan or 18C and use mine. I don't know what you are doing with FSC but whatever it is forget it for this flight. Don't import anything into the FMC. Just manually enter one of the above flightplans.

In FSC , but also in the FMC you can choose tarnsition ANT and ILS25R.
Then a wide turn towards rw25R is being calculated.
That looks the same as when choosing Star ANT.   

I understand that entering a fp by hand might be better, but I also make flights that take 2,5-3 h and I don't feel like entering 8 or 9 pages of legs manually.

In reality pilots get a floppy/disk with a fp and then copy that into the FMC.
Like I now copy a fp without procedures into the FMC.

BtW : rw22 at Eham is just 2200ft.....and is not being used for take off.

Today I made the route in the FMC manually, no flightplanner,  but again no luck.
The arrival waypoints are the same waypoint soup.

Transitian ANT is tyhere twice and after rw25R there are again also several double waypoints.

On 19-5 I sent a ticket about this and still am waiting for an answer.

I honestly dont see the problem. You only need to delete one of the ANT waypoints and the route is exactly the way its supposed to be. The waypoints after the the runway is the go around procedure and they are exactly like they should be. The missed approach procedure tells you to

The reason why there are two waypoints for BUN in the missed approach is because the last of them is the HOLD procedure. HOLDS have their own waypoints

I HIGHLY recommend that you look at the charts when youre doing your flightplanning, they will often clarify things that are not 100% clear when youre looking at the CDU. You can get charts for free for most (all) airports on the internet really easily, normally googling 'charts <airport>' is enough. You can also get all the AD charts for us airports at http://www.airnav.com/airports/, and at http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadcms/eadsite/index.php%3Foption=com_content&tas... for almost every european airport. Both sites lets you get the charts for free, however, the eurocontrol sites require you to register before they let you into the charts section.

Let me walk you through the STAR and the approach, the way I interpret it.

The WOOD4a STAR contains the following instructions :
from WOODY track NIK at the 206 degree inbound radial until youre 8DME from the VOR, then turn left to intercept the 130 degree inbound radial to the ANT VOR. (There's actually a small inaccuracy between the navdata from navigraph and the chart. The chart says turn left to intercept the 119 degree outbound radial to ANT, not 130 degree. This is not a captain sim problem, but rather a problem with the accuracy of the data you have purchased from Navigraph)

Alright, that was the STAR, now lets have a look at the approach plate for ILS25R, ANT transition

From ANT track the 107 degree outbound radial to the BUN VOR, after BUN turn right HDG 171, fly that for 3 NM, then turn right HDG 216 to intercept (INTC) the ILS 25R on the inbound radial of 246.

After that we got a couple of waypoints defining the height you should be at for various interception points for the ILS, lets go to the missed approach part of the approach plate. It starts with

after RW25R climb heading 246, when passing 700 feet turn right hdg 020, continue climb to 3000 feet. At around 2000 feet intercept (INTC) the 071 inbound radial to the BUN VOR. After you reach BUN proceed to HOLD AT the BUN VOR on the 117 degree inbound radial, standard right hand turns with 1 minute legs.


Thats the STAR, approach and missed approach procedure for ILS25R, ANT transition for EBBR as far as I can tell. Its all logical and the only waypoint you need to delete is one of the double ANT waypoints that you get as a result of ANT being a part of the STAR WOOD4a and the ILS25R, ANT transition. The 3x BUN waypoints are there because they are to be used for various parts of the approach, once for the approach itself, once for the missed approach route and finally once for the HOLD AT procedure. The (INTC) parts on the CDU are not actual waypoints, instead they indicate that you are supposed to intercept a radial at a point where there's no particular fix.


This is my interpretation of the approach, if anyone knows more about this particular approach or about approaches in general then please let me know so I dont go around spreading misinformation.

-wims

I dont know if there's something wrong with your navdata, this is how my cdu looks for the STAR and the approach :



This is exactly like I explained the approach. You only need to delete one waypoint, namely one of the ANT waypoints (actually, im not sure that you even need to delete that waypoint, i think that the plane will just continue to on towards BUN after reaching ANT, even tho there's two waypoints there at the same place, but im not 100% sure about it). If your cdu look different then there's almost certainly something weird going on with your navdata

Libretto wrote on May 25^th, 2011 at 11:44am:

Ah! So you were using the "other" 767 FMC instructions and not the manual for the Captain Sim 757.

Mark

Libretto

All didnot go well while on the STAR. As the plane was heading in the general direction of the airport it was supposed to turn right, go straight for several miles then turn left and head for the transition. At the first waypoint instead of turning right the plane did not change heading continuing straight on. I had to disengage LNAV and make the turns myself.  It landed okay but something was messed up with the STAR. I think I'll fly in the United States, Europe, and Asia.

Michael Cubine