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 10 Views do not show up (Read 8654 times)
SimJack
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Views do not show up
Jan 3rd, 2007 at 12:39pm
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Cap Sim and Company,

Having spent more time with the shuttle, I have discovered a few possible bugs to look in to. My system runs FSX well.

1) After loading the re-entry flight, none of the other views (vc, pilot, etc.) show up other than as a black screen. If I reload the flight prior to initiating the re-entry phase, all views are present, but the re-entry has already been initiated.

2) Same as above with the animations panel.

3) On the shuttle information web page, it talks about a 90,000 feet slew limitation in FS9. I have tried it in FSX and have the same results. This one is FYI, but some issues may be related to slew mode operation or the settings in the FSX control menu. Not sure on this one.

SimJack
  

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Re: Shuttle Bug
Reply #1 - Jan 3rd, 2007 at 4:21pm
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SimJack wrote on Jan 3rd, 2007 at 12:39pm:
1) After loading the re-entry flight, none of the other views (vc, pilot, etc.) show up other than as a black screen. If I reload the flight prior to initiating the re-entry phase, all views are present, but the re-entry has already been initiated.


Could you please explain what you are doing, step by step?
  
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SimJack
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Re: Shuttle Bug
Reply #2 - Jan 3rd, 2007 at 4:24pm
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I am at work now. I will try to document more detail later tonite.

Thanks, SimJack
  

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SimJack
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Re: Shuttle Bug
Reply #3 - Jan 4th, 2007 at 12:43pm
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Cap Sim and Co.


Here are the detailed steps and issues noted:

1) Boot FSX
2) select shuttle (only Atlantis loads no matter what shuttle is selected).
3) Go to load menu and select "Entry".
4) "Entry" loads and puts you at 400,000 + feet and 0 mach.
5) Hit "Y" key to get out of slew, nothing happens.
6) Using hat switch, all views (spot, airport, and external views) are ok.
7) Only view available in the cockpit is the "Commander" looking forward. No side views (they are black).
8) Switched cockpit views in the FSX menu. The vc, pilot, and mission specialist views are black screens.
9) The last 4 view options (cargo bay, hatch, etc.) are ok.
10) No hud and no animations work (seems slew mode is locked).
11) From the FSX menu, selected reset.
12) Everything reloads and returns to "Entry" mode. The re-entry sequence has been initiated (without pressing "P") and all views and systems are operational.
13) Same as (12) above if you press escape and end flight and then restart the flight from the FSX main screen.
14) Operating manual does not explain where on the main FSX menu to begin a flight. In FSX it is under the "Load" menu. In FS9 it should be under "Select a Flight" menu.

Hope this is enough detail to help in resolution.

SimJack
  

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Re: Shuttle Bug
Reply #4 - Jan 4th, 2007 at 3:39pm
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We have recreated situation you describe and did not experience the same problems. Switching views in VC and 2D using MSFS keys gives us all views. Can anyone confirm that issue please? We need some more statistics on that issue. Please follow the 'bug reporting' rules: http://www.captainsim.net/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1141323668
As soon as we get at least 10 correct and detailed users reports posted in this topic, we will forward the reports to our development team.

Please note: you should not hit "Y" key to get out of slew, yo should hit 'P'.
  
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SabreHawk
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Re: Shuttle Bug
Reply #5 - Jan 4th, 2007 at 4:01pm
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Yes, DO NOT HIT "Y"! This takes it out of slew mode and will mess up the autopilots operation. This is clearly stated in the manual, and it's in red too so no excuse for not seeing it, unless of course you didnt read the manual. Roll Eyes

As for the views I havent seen this problem either. All mine work so far.

Do read those manuals, that's what they are there for. Hehe, you'll be truly lost in space if you dont............. Shocked
  
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SimJack
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Re: Shuttle Bug
Reply #6 - Jan 4th, 2007 at 4:02pm
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Captain Sim 2 wrote on Jan 4th, 2007 at 3:39pm:
Switching views in VC and 2D using MSFS keys gives us all views.



Are you switching views using the F9 and F10 keys?


Captain Sim 2 wrote on Jan 4th, 2007 at 3:39pm:
Please note: you should not hit "Y" key to get out of slew, yo should hit 'P'.



In FS9 and FSX, the "Y" key is the key to enter or exit slew mode. In the shuttle simulator, P exits slew but also causes "Entry" mode to start. That is when the functions and views I mentioned begin to work properly, but there is no time to enjoy the animations or views..................... Undecided
  

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SimJack
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Re: Shuttle Bug
Reply #7 - Jan 4th, 2007 at 4:16pm
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SabreHawk wrote on Jan 4th, 2007 at 4:01pm:
Yes, DO NOT HIT "Y"! This takes it out of slew mode and will mess up the autopilots operation. This is clearly stated in the manual, and it's in red too so no excuse for not seeing it, unless of course you didnt read the manual. Roll Eyes

As for the views I havent seen this problem either. All mine work so far.

Do read those manuals, that's what they are there for. Hehe, you'll be truly lost in space if you dont............. Shocked




Yes I read the manuals. The only one pertaining to the simulator is Part 1. The other two parts are basically NASA manuals with no simulator features detailed. Did you figure that out?

Hitting the "Y" key after Entry begins does what you stated. I am refering to events prior to hitting the"P" key to begin entry. The manual states that no animations or orbit will operate in the slew mode, but implies that you can exit slew mode to see them. However, slew mode is defined by the "Y" key. The manual states to begin entry, hit the "P" key. It does not mention that the "P" key is the slew key, only states that it is to initiate the entry mode.

Now it's your turn to read the manual.  Grin
  

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SabreHawk
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Re: Shuttle Bug
Reply #8 - Jan 4th, 2007 at 8:49pm
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Oh no sir, I have read all three, several times in fact. And part's II & III do pertain to the sim and are not NASA manuals. Part II is "systems", and part III is flight procedures.
The NASA manuals you refer to are not availible from the start menu, but are located in a folder within the Captain sim folder inside the main FSX folder.

Excerpt from part III (flight procedures), page 6

The entry phase is initiated by pressing P key
(altitude of 400,000 ft) and continues to the
entry TAEM interface.
The fundamental guidance requirement during
entry is to reach the TAEM interface (~2500
ft/s, altitude of approximately 82,000 ft)
within specified limits on range (about 50
nautical miles (n. mi.)) from the selected
heading alignment cone (HAC) and with a
velocity heading within a few degrees of
tangency with the HAC.

During a nominal entry, the flight control system (FCS) is in the AUTO mode and the flight crew function is
primarily one of monitoring the operation and performance of the guidance, navigation, and control systems.
Warning:
Do not press Y (turns OFF SLEW mode) during Entry phase because that will
affect programmed automatic entry and TAEM interface guidance.

The entry guidance system controls the entry trajectory by holding GPS track while flying a predesigned
velocity profile. The profile is designed to be compatible with heating and stability constraints.
MANUAL CONTROL
During a nominal entry in the AUTO mode crew can manually correct the vehicle position using SLEW keys.
Warning:
Do not press Y (turns OFF SLEW mode) during Entry phase because that will
affect programmed automatic entry and TAEM interface guidance.
Lateral guidance corrections.
If necessary correct lateral position on GPS track using SLEW keys (left-right arrows keys and End-Page
Down keys).
  
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SimJack
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Re: Shuttle Bug
Reply #9 - Jan 5th, 2007 at 4:35pm
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SabreHawk wrote on Jan 4th, 2007 at 8:49pm:
Oh no sir, I have read all three, several times in fact. And part's II & III do pertain to the sim and are not NASA manuals. Part II is "systems", and part III is flight procedures.
The NASA manuals you refer to are not availible from the start menu, but are located in a folder within the Captain sim folder inside the main FSX folder.


The fundamental guidance requirement during
entry is to reach the TAEM interface (~2500
ft/s, altitude of approximately 82,000 ft)
within specified limits on range (about 50
nautical miles (n. mi.)) from the selected
heading alignment cone (HAC) and with a
velocity heading within a few degrees of
tangency with the HAC.

During a nominal entry, the flight control system (FCS) is in the AUTO mode and the flight crew function is
primarily one of monitoring the operation and performance of the guidance, navigation, and control systems.

The entry guidance system controls the entry trajectory by holding GPS track while flying a predesigned
velocity profile. The profile is designed to be compatible with heating and stability constraints.



Thanks for quoting the manual. It is however way off topic. You got your own flight crew?

The main issue is what is happening before entry flight is initiated. Since you are a rocket scientist, please explain how the "Y" key and "P" keys can both be slew functions at the same time?
  

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SabreHawk
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Re: Shuttle Bug
Reply #10 - Jan 5th, 2007 at 5:32pm
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WinkYour welcome sir, hehe. Actuall they arent both slew, they are what they are at any other time in the sim.
Y is for slew, and P is for Pause. And well I dont have the red slew & pause messages omitted in my sim so I noticed right off the bat that when the entry flight is loaded that the sim is paused, and in slew mode.

We'll all get there friend, even if we have to hire Han solo himself to do it................. Grin

Oh gosh I wouldnt say im a rocket scientist, but I do have experience with a "Space Simulator" which actually does simulate space physics and orbital mechanics. But the learning curve with it is way more than in FSX. Gotta get out the slide rule for it, but it does have quite a few MFD's designed just for space operations. And in it, you do it all from launch, orbital ops, and re-entry and landing. Cheesy

  
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SimJack
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Re: Shuttle Bug
Reply #11 - Jan 6th, 2007 at 4:11pm
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SabreHawk wrote on Jan 5th, 2007 at 5:32pm:
WinkYour welcome sir, hehe. Actuall they arent both slew, they are what they are at any other time in the sim.
Y is for slew, and P is for Pause. And well I dont have the red slew & pause messages omitted in my sim so I noticed right off the bat that when the entry flight is loaded that the sim is paused, and in slew mode.



Thanks for the positive comments. Truce Dude!  Wink

I have my messages disabled (slew, brakes, etc.), so I did not fully see what was happening. The manual still implies that the "P" key is to exit slew. So do the comments from Cap Sim moderator.  I think there are some serious disconnects due to a lack of sufficient info in the ops manual.

SimJack
  

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SabreHawk
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Re: Shuttle Bug
Reply #12 - Jan 6th, 2007 at 5:13pm
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Rodger that Simjack, hehe! Yeah, I have to agree there are some things that arent very clear, I for one am still confused a bit on doing orbital operations.

The manual really doesnt say much except that getting an orbit by use of the slew keys, which as best I can tell means using the "up" and "forward" commands to get the Shuttle moving forward and continuing till the speed is at what's called "Orbital velocity" which is If I remember correctly about 12,000 MPH. And at the same time using the "up" command to get it to an orbital altitude which is much higher than 400,000ft.( I'll have to look that up, it's measured in miles not feet.)

Still though, this means that when ya want to re-enter you'd have to load up the "entry" flight again as there would be no way for you to know exactly at what distance from KSC to start it(it has to precise), and of course to have the autopilot to be functional again as it wont be once we take it out of slew mode to do orbital ops. and we have been around the planet for a few orbits playing space cowboy. Tongue

Heh, yeppers it's like Han said, "Flyin through space aint like dustin crops boy, without precise calculations we'd fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova(off the atmosphere in our case) and that'd end yer trip real quick wouldn't it?" Grin
  
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SimJack
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Re: Shuttle Bug
Reply #13 - Jan 8th, 2007 at 6:30pm
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SabreHawk,

I'm still confused.............senior moment I guess.

Anyway, I have to reset every flight because nothing much works as far as the views and animations are concerned. I'll try to slew up, up, and away at mach 20 to see what happens. Maybe it will slew to the moon...................... Huh

SimJack
  

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SabreHawk
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Re: Shuttle Bug
Reply #14 - Jan 8th, 2007 at 8:27pm
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Ha, ha! To the moon Alice!..............to the moon! Grin

Yeah, senior momments.................I get'em all the time, gosh I miss the 70's Cheesy
  
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