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 25 ILS Localizer capture question (Read 27777 times)
Jan Koppen
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ILS Localizer capture question
Jun 9th, 2011 at 12:01pm
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707 Friends,

Finding/capturing the ILS localizer and glideslope with  the help of 707 GPS map is easy but ..............
How did the real 1960/1970 skippers in a GPS free world find there way to the starting point of the ILS localizer ? Undecided

Thanks gents,

Jan Koppen
NL
  
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synergy
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Re: ILS Localizer capture question
Reply #1 - Jun 9th, 2011 at 2:56pm
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Lou, would be the to ask, as I understand, Lou use to fly 707's.
  
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LOU
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Re: ILS Localizer capture question
Reply #2 - Jun 9th, 2011 at 6:29pm
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Any of you kids ever hear of a "radio range?"

That was the thing you had to learn to navigate with in the late 50's. The plane I took lessons in was a J-3 for the first few hours followed by the ultra modern Cessna 150. The 150 had a radio called a coffee grinder. You tuned the radio by turning a dial and getting the loudest signal. Then you had to identify the three letter code to make sure you had the correct station. The radio range put out four different legs that were called "the beam." If you left the beam, which was really a buzz of two signals - the A and the N sector, you would get the code for either an A or an N. A lot of time was spent doing radio range orientation. It was very crude navigation, but it was better than DR. Later this range was replaced by the VOR and serious navigation could take place.

Some reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-frequency_radio_range

So how did we get around and find the ILS localizer in the good old days?

Situational Awareness was very important. Keeping track of where you are is the key to good navigation skills. In the 707 days of the 60's the VOR was one of the tools along with the NDB for keeping track of where you were. The VOR, like the NDB can be used as a bird dog to point to the station using the instrument called the ADF in the lower left part of the instrument panel. The ADF dial has a little knob to select either VOR or NDB bearings. With just a little practice, you will see that this instrument was our GPS of the day. You always had a paper map on your lap or in the map clip. You would use bearings to the station to figure a LOP - line of position. Using the LOM to keep track of your bearing to or from the outer marker was pretty easy. There were places where you would not have radar coverage and the ATC people would expect you to be able to find your own way and keep them informed of your progress. This is how it was done in a large portion of eastern Europe and Africa. There just was not radar in all places.

ATC would clear you to a fix or NDB and clear you for the approach. You were on your own! You would navigate to a VOR or NDB, and depart on a heading or bearing which would allow you to intercept the ILS. Altitude was either assigned by ATC or they might clear you for the approach and you would use the paper map or chart to fly the correct altitude. Now remember these places did not have a lot of traffic so this was a doable thing.

Get your self at your favorite airport that has a ILS and at least one LOM. Take off and fly the traffic pattern using the ADF to show you the bearing to the LOM. Using the VOR/DME makes it very easy to keep track of where you are. Fly the pattern VFR and see how it looks. Then drop the weather and do it on instruments.

That's about the long and the short of it!  Roll Eyes No sissy pilots back then!  Grin

Lou
  

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Re: ILS Localizer capture question
Reply #3 - Jun 9th, 2011 at 8:45pm
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Congrats LOU. Excellent explanation about radio navigation "in the good old days", for all the "kids", including me. Smiley
  

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Re: ILS Localizer capture question
Reply #4 - Jun 10th, 2011 at 1:53am
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Thanks Lou.

That's really interesting and now you have made me want to go off  and try doing that. But before I do, can you tell me what LOM stands for? It popped in there after LOP (line of position), so I can't quite figure that one out.

Mark
  

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Jan Koppen
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Re: ILS Localizer capture question
Reply #5 - Jun 10th, 2011 at 9:10am
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Lou

Thanks on behalf of the kids (I am already 50 but still a kid).
Had expected such navigation and will try.
Should need an navigator for advice and me do the flying.
This is not a one man job.
Roll Eyes
tks. JK
  
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Re: ILS Localizer capture question
Reply #6 - Jun 10th, 2011 at 11:25am
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I'm 52 and still feel like a kid too, so I'm sure the saying "Boys will always be boys, it's just that their toys get more expensive" is true. My wife calls me one of the boys because she feels like she has three sons, instead of two sons and a husband. Cheesy Grin

Mark

  

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Re: ILS Localizer capture question
Reply #7 - Jun 10th, 2011 at 3:55pm
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LOM - Low frequency Outer Marker

This is an outer marker with a co-located NDB (non directional beacon).
Most larger airports have a OM & LOM co-located so you can see where the OM is as you fly around.

As you fly around the traffic pattern, you will notice the needle always points to the LOM. This is why it's called a "bird dog" because it just points TO the station. The needle gives you relative bearing to the station. If the needle is in a RMI (Radio Magnetic Indicator) as it is in the 707 & 727, then the needle gives you a magnetic bearing to the station. This RMI makes it easier because you don't have to try to figure the relative bearing and apply your compass heading to make it a magnetic bearing.



http://www.fltplan.com/AwDisplayAppChart.exe?CRN10=1&CARRYUNAME=PILOT&DEPTARPT=K...

This link takes you to an approach plate for the Harrisburg airport. The ILS for RW-13 has a LOM co-located with the OM. The LOM is named ENOLA. The frequency is 204 and the ID is MD. As you fly the pattern with ENOLA tuned in, place the small switch on the RMI to ADF. You can display either ADF or VOR in the RMI. This is the basic tool for flying the non glass planes and keeping track of where you are.

As you fly downwind keep an eye on the needle in the RMI. As you fly abeam the OM the needle will point 90 degrees to your heading - no wind. This will tell you where you are in the traffic pattern. Fly a few miles past the OM and start you turn back to intercept the LOC. The LOM needle is still pointing to the OM so you can see your magnetic bearing to the OM and thus the position of the LOC. As you approach the intercept for the LOC the needle will show how far you are from the LOC. When you intercept the LOC the needle will point to the inbound course - no wind. As you pass the LOM the needle will swing and you use the tail of the needle to track the inbound LOC.

If Bruce Scott lived near-by I would get together with him and produce a video to show how this works.  Cool

Lou
  

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Re: ILS Localizer capture question
Reply #8 - Jun 10th, 2011 at 3:57pm
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I'm so old I don't buy green bananas!  Tongue

Mark, we must be married to the same woman!!!  Grin

Who ever dies with the most toys - WINS!  Wink
  

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Re: ILS Localizer capture question
Reply #9 - Jun 10th, 2011 at 5:43pm
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Mark, we must be married to the same woman!!!  Grin
You have a great marriage then, coz my wife is the best! Tongue

Who ever dies with the most toys - WINS!  Wink
Bugger! That isn't going to be me then.  However, if you were to change that to:
Who ever dies after playing the most - WINS!
Then I might be in with a chance! Cheesy

Thanks for setting me straight on the LOM (Low frequency Outer Marker).
  

Mark Fletcher



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Jan Koppen
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Re: ILS Localizer capture question
Reply #10 - Jun 11th, 2011 at 10:46am
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Lou ............... RESPECT

Have been flying in the Beyrut Lebanon circuit for a whole afternoon.
.............. really not a one man job ! ... but I managed to get her perfectly caputuring the LOC/GS for runway 17 of Beyrut in low visibilty.

thank for your help.
WinkCheck out my story about a flight a Beyrut
Have published in Captain707 message TMA repaint.

tks. JK
  
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Re: ILS Localizer capture question
Reply #11 - Jun 11th, 2011 at 3:40pm
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Great story Jan! Flying in the middle east has always been an adventure. The people are warm and friendly and invite you into their homes where there is always too much food. I always loved to fly to Tehran, Cairo or Damascus to enjoy a good meal followed by relaxing with the hubble-bubble!  Shocked

I wonder if the area will ever settle down and enjoy peace.

It amused me to watch the "security" guard at the airport ask for "bakshish" to let you through security.  Shocked

Lou
  

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Re: ILS Localizer capture question
Reply #12 - Jun 11th, 2011 at 6:03pm
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Here is a quick down and dirty look at the use of the ADF during an approach to a runway with LOM.

This is the ADF control panel on the overhead in the 707. I have tuned the radio to frequency 204 by selecting the proper band of the outer ring of the dial on the right side of the control head - which is 190 to 400. There 2 other selections, 400 to 840 and 840 to 1750. the last band selection is in the normal AM radio band. You can home in on any radio station, or as we used to do, get the latest sports score to pass on to the passengers. You tune with the inner ring using left or right mouse buttons. Notice above the tune knob there is a small meter. This allows you to tune to the strongest signal. On the left of the control head is the knob that turns off the set, or allows selection of ADF, ANT or LOOP. When using the set as an ADF use the ADF position. If you just want to listen to the radio, you would use the ANT position. The last position is LOOP which in conjunction with the loop knob above, allows you to electronically turn the loop or phase of the antenna to point to a station. The switch BFO ( Beat Frequency Oscillator) makes tuning just a bit easier if the signal is poor by adding a tone when on signal. The gain knob inside the mode selector makes it louder.

So as you can see, I have tuned in the LOM of ENOLA which is co-located with the Outer Marker for the RW 13 approach at KMDT.

I am approaching the airport from the southwest. The first screen capture shows the display in the cockpit and on a map of the airport area. For these pictures I froze the plane and just slewed it around - hence the somewhat jagged red path line.



I am flying on a north heading, and just flew over the extended ILS for KMDT which is located off the the lower right along the river. The airport I just flew over is a smaller general aviation airport KCXY. Look at the little black plane and see the position or bearing of the OM at about 8 o-clock. Now look at the instrument indication on the ADF which shows the magnetic bearing to the station.



I have the small left knob on the ADF selected to ADF and the number one needle is pointing to the LOM - bearing about 236 degrees.

Next I will fly downwind, past the station so I can turn around and fly the ILS.



I know the red track line is pretty nasty, but I have flown northwest and started a turn around to an intercept heading for the ILS to RW 13 at KMDT. Here is a look at the cockpit display for the map position above.



I am on a 60 degree intercept heading to the ILS - see the HSI and check the position of the LOC. The inbound course of the RW 13 ILS is 128 degrees, which is set in the course window of the HSI. The ADF is showing a mag bearing to the OM of 169 degrees and my heading is 189 degrees. This tells me I will intercept the LOC well outside the OM.



Now I have intercepted the LOC and I'm just outside the ENOLA LOM.



Observe the LOC and the ADF. I am on the LOC and the bearing to the LOM is about 128 degrees. If there was a strong cross wind there would be a crab angle that would show in both the HSI and the ADF as drift correction.



I have just passed over the marker as you can see on the map above. Below is what the cockpit indications are.



It's a bit hard to see, but the blue OM light is lit, and the ADF needle has swung around to point at the beacon which is now behind us. Now you would use the tail of the needle to fly the bearing. As you fly to the beacon, if you want the bearing to change to the left, you would fly to the right which would cause the needle to move left. After you pass the station, you reverse the process. This is called "dragging the needle."

The ADF is a very useful tool to keep track of where you are as you fly around. It can display either NDB information or VOR information with the flick of a switch. Using the ADF to fly an approach is called a Non Precision Approach whereas the ILS is a Precision approach. This is why the landing minimums are higher for the ADF or VOR approach.

If you have any questions, please ask and I'll try to help you understand how this very useful instrument works.

No sissy glass pilots here!  Cool

Lou

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Re: ILS Localizer capture question
Reply #13 - Jun 11th, 2011 at 8:01pm
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Lou

Obhf of all 707 friends TOP. Cheesy
Very well explained.

tks. Jan Koppen
  
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Re: ILS Localizer capture question
Reply #14 - Jun 11th, 2011 at 8:26pm
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Yeah, nice explanation there.

Always great to read about some basics in that Lou style since the modern planes only ask you "how would you like your landing, sir?" only.
I always get back to the needle driven things just because I want to take a glimpse on what it used to be like.
But remember, some of those old flagships are still in the air, so the knowledge is more than current and always useful for the understanding, about the things behind all that modern glass too.
  
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