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Too Fast (Read 3824 times)

DAL191 Senior Member Offline Posts: 388 Location: Tampa FL USA Joined: Nov 26^th, 2009 Gender:	Too Fast Jul 25^th, 2013 at 7:08pm	Print Post
	I don't believe the 752 is going to make the speed restriction of 250kts at CAMRN seeing as how it is going 292kts with only 4.2 NM to go per attached image. Michael Cubine

	CAMRN.JPG (Attachment deleted) Cooler Master HAF 932 Case, Corsair 1200W PS, Corsair H50 Liquid Cooler,I7-2700K 4.6GHz, ASRock Z68 ProfessionalGen3 MB, 8GB G.Skill RipJaws DDR3 1866 MHz 2-300GB VelociRaptor 10000RPM SATA 16MB Cache, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780ti, 3072MB, GDDR5, PCIe, ASUS 27" LED Monitor, Windows7 64bit, FSX Gold
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LOU Beta Team Offline 727,707,747,757,767= 40years of Boeings Posts: 1594 Location: Central PA, USA Joined: Mar 3^rd, 2010 Gender:	Re: Too Fast Reply #1 - Jul 26^th, 2013 at 8:43pm	Print Post
	Michael, Can't tell if you are level, but if you were, you could make 50 kts in 4 miles however you also have a 23 kt tail wind to boot! � I know the FAA likes pilots to use VNAV, but it really increases the workload since you think it will take care of you, but it will bite you in the butt if you don't pay attention. Using VNAV really requires a bunch of inputs in order to insure making the restriction. Is the A/I on? Tail wind/head wind? How much does the wind change with altitude - forecast? A lot of the pilots I flew with would fudge the restrictiion by a few miles so as not to get bit. I much prefered V/S and the green arc with speed control. Lou

	Processor: Intel Core i7-4770k @3.5Ghz Memory: 6Gb DDR3 1600mhz Video: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 Storage: 256Gb Samsung 840 Pro \| 120Gb OCZ Agility 3 \| WD Black 640Gb 7200rpm 55" Samsung LED - HDTV for monitor
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DAL191 Senior Member Offline Posts: 388 Location: Tampa FL USA Joined: Nov 26^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Too Fast Reply #2 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 4:35am	Print Post
	Lou The plane was not level. It was about 11500 descending to 10000. What has happened in the past is the airspeed bug will drop to 250 at CAMRN. The FMS has not been coded correctly or whoever coded doesn't know jack about aviation. The plane should be at 250 at CAMRN not starting to slow from 292 to 250 at CAMRN. I only left the plane in LNAV to show that the restrictions don't work. At around 14000 ft I go to SPD and V/S because I simply don't trust LNAV to get it right. Michael Cubine

	Cooler Master HAF 932 Case, Corsair 1200W PS, Corsair H50 Liquid Cooler,I7-2700K 4.6GHz, ASRock Z68 ProfessionalGen3 MB, 8GB G.Skill RipJaws DDR3 1866 MHz 2-300GB VelociRaptor 10000RPM SATA 16MB Cache, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780ti, 3072MB, GDDR5, PCIe, ASUS 27" LED Monitor, Windows7 64bit, FSX Gold
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DAL191 Senior Member Offline Posts: 388 Location: Tampa FL USA Joined: Nov 26^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Too Fast Reply #3 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 3:46am	Print Post
	Lou Attached is an image of the SSO.KOOLY4 for KPHX which I used today on a KATL-KPHX flight. To see what would happen, I left the flight in VNAV to about 8500 feet. Right at ITEMM the speed bug dropped to 280 but the plane crossed ITEMM at 291. RECOK was okay at 282 but then the plane went to 291 instead of 270 at KOOLY. At SQUEZ the bug dropped to 250 and crossed at 292. Several miles before 10000 feet the bug dropped to 240. Using the speedbrakes I got it under 250 before 10000 feet. 1.4 mile from BASHA the bug went to 210. No way I could have made 210 even with the gear down and speedbrakes deployed. After that that I went to V/S. Not a good expierence. Michael Cubine

	KOOLY4STAR.JPG (Attachment deleted) Cooler Master HAF 932 Case, Corsair 1200W PS, Corsair H50 Liquid Cooler,I7-2700K 4.6GHz, ASRock Z68 ProfessionalGen3 MB, 8GB G.Skill RipJaws DDR3 1866 MHz 2-300GB VelociRaptor 10000RPM SATA 16MB Cache, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780ti, 3072MB, GDDR5, PCIe, ASUS 27" LED Monitor, Windows7 64bit, FSX Gold
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LOU Beta Team Offline 727,707,747,757,767= 40years of Boeings Posts: 1594 Location: Central PA, USA Joined: Mar 3^rd, 2010 Gender:	Re: Too Fast Reply #4 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 3:03pm	Print Post
	Michael, There was a reason almost every pilot I flew with would say: VNAV SUX! Now to be honest, the real plane is indeed a bit better than your example. Do you make the speed and altitude HARD numbers in the CDU? Does that make a difference? Lou

	Processor: Intel Core i7-4770k @3.5Ghz Memory: 6Gb DDR3 1600mhz Video: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 Storage: 256Gb Samsung 840 Pro \| 120Gb OCZ Agility 3 \| WD Black 640Gb 7200rpm 55" Samsung LED - HDTV for monitor
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DAL191 Senior Member Offline Posts: 388 Location: Tampa FL USA Joined: Nov 26^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Too Fast Reply #5 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:46pm	Print Post
	LOU wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 3:03pm: Michael, Do you make the speed and altitude HARD numbers in the CDU? Lou Lou How do you make them hard numbers? Right now I just compare the STAR chart to what is in the CDU and make any changes if necessary to the speed and altitude at the waypoints in the CDU. Michael Cubine

	Cooler Master HAF 932 Case, Corsair 1200W PS, Corsair H50 Liquid Cooler,I7-2700K 4.6GHz, ASRock Z68 ProfessionalGen3 MB, 8GB G.Skill RipJaws DDR3 1866 MHz 2-300GB VelociRaptor 10000RPM SATA 16MB Cache, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780ti, 3072MB, GDDR5, PCIe, ASUS 27" LED Monitor, Windows7 64bit, FSX Gold
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LOU Beta Team Offline 727,707,747,757,767= 40years of Boeings Posts: 1594 Location: Central PA, USA Joined: Mar 3^rd, 2010 Gender:	Re: Too Fast Reply #6 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 6:56pm	Print Post
	Michael, I think we are talking about the same thing. Here is your example from before into KMIA. Notice GLR02, the numbers are smaller than the hard number at SSCOT. You can type in the scratch pad an airspeed and altitude and put it at GLR02 by using LS2R, then the numbers will show larger as hard numbers. You can just assign an altitude by typing /5000 and LS to the place you want. Having said all that, you really should NOT have to do anything to a published STAR in real life. I have never up-dated the FSX data base so my "new" approach plates do not always match the FSX data. Here is an example: This is the FSX data. It does not match current charts, but it is still usable for our flying. Notice TERRI has no data on this STAR. That is because there is a choice to make depending on the runway in use. So even though the FSX database is old, I can still use it for my flying. I type in the scratch pad 250/100 and enter it on LS1R. You can also add speed restrictions at the other points by typing for example 210/ for CYN using LS2R. On the current STAR you see the different name for the same intersection. It's now HOGEY. Lou Uploaded with ImageShack.us

	Processor: Intel Core i7-4770k @3.5Ghz Memory: 6Gb DDR3 1600mhz Video: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 Storage: 256Gb Samsung 840 Pro \| 120Gb OCZ Agility 3 \| WD Black 640Gb 7200rpm 55" Samsung LED - HDTV for monitor
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DAL191 Senior Member Offline Posts: 388 Location: Tampa FL USA Joined: Nov 26^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Too Fast Reply #7 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 7:53pm	Print Post
	Lou The only difference between the FAA Chart and the CDU for KOOLY4 was at CABOS and SQUEZ. The CDU only had the above restriction but not the below restriction. For example I changed CABOS from 250/10000 to 250/10000A12000B. Based upon what you have written all the restriction were hard. I just didn't know the meaning of hard. Thanks Michael Cubine

	Cooler Master HAF 932 Case, Corsair 1200W PS, Corsair H50 Liquid Cooler,I7-2700K 4.6GHz, ASRock Z68 ProfessionalGen3 MB, 8GB G.Skill RipJaws DDR3 1866 MHz 2-300GB VelociRaptor 10000RPM SATA 16MB Cache, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780ti, 3072MB, GDDR5, PCIe, ASUS 27" LED Monitor, Windows7 64bit, FSX Gold
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