Boeing247,

90 degree intercept is not happening!
Too big a turn.
Most intercepts by ATC would be between 45 and 30 degrees, with 30 being a lot nicer.
Even though you put the plane on autopilot you still have to FLY THE PLANE.
You might have to use heading select to get the aircraft to turn toward the LOC if the auto stuff does not do it for you.
In the real plane the little black button (Z) on the yoke is your friend - use it if the plane does not do what you want then when you are under control, hook it up again and see what it wants to do. As an instructor in these planes I would never let a student sit there pushing autopilot buttons without a hand on the yoke and thumb on the disconnect button.
Try it again with a 30 degree intercept and be on speed with flaps 5 degrees.

Lou

http://www.smartcockpit.com/data/pdfs/plane/boeing/b767/diagrams/B767-ILS_Approa...

boeing 247,  I'm new to using ILS (I've just recently decided to actually learn how to realistically fly jetliners and use the various systems), so do you have to intercept the LOC before the plane will intercept the glideslope?

That depends on the plane. The old gals - 707, 727 would not do a G/S capture from above (except MAN G/S) or until the Loc was captured in AUTO G/S. It's been a while since I flew the 767, but I think it will capture either one in APP. One of the ways of doing an ILS in the FMC planes is to let it fly the magenta line for the line-up to the LOC. Check the raw data and if it looks good, push the APP button.

The key is to give it a chance to be successful by not rushing the approach. Get the plane slowed down with proper flap setting and a nice capture angle of around 30 degrees, ten miles out. That should give the autopilot time to do its thing.

Read over the tips and tricks area of the KB. I did a play by play for the 727 doing an ILS. Most of the stuff applies to the glass planes just the weights and speeds are a bit different.

Lou

boeing247 asked:  I think there's just one last thing: how do you get the ILS feathers to appear on the HSI? I watched a video for a different company's 767 (so I don't know if you can do this on Captain Sim's) where the HSI displayed a dashed white line which represented the ILS feather.

The term ILS feather refers to the
drawing of the LOC and G/S on an approach plate.



The dashed white line is the extended center line of the runway selected for the approach.



As you fly your trip on the FMC you stay on the Magenta line - your flight plan.
You can extend the final course if you are being vectored or you can just fly
to the canned places on the approach.

Above, for example, you can see the HAR VOR on both the approach plate and on the FMC.
You could be directed to fly direct to the HAR VOR,
maintain 2,800 feet, cleared for the approach RW 13.
Maintain 2,800 until established on the LOC.

Lou

I just read the FMC tutorial on the 757, and I think I'm pressing LOC hold at the wrong time. When should I press it? Just before the magenta icon hits the centerline?

Yeah, I knew I wasn't putting all the information into the FMC, but now that I've read the FMC tutorial by aussie in its entirety, I think I know what to put it.

So if you put in the Arr/Dept runways, then ATC will direct you to those runways and it will appear in your flight plan?

And by the way, you do you figure out the Center of Gravity?

Yeah, I knew I wasn't putting all the information into the FMC, but now that I've read the FMC tutorial by aussie in its entirety, I think I know what to put it.
I had to do that tutorial flight quite a number of times before I got it sorted out in my head. Be patient and keep at it. Once you get it figured out, it's really easy.

So if you put in the Arr/Dept runways, then ATC will direct you to those runways and it will appear in your flight plan?
Not necessarily. The ATC will, IF the arrival runway you have selected is the one in use when you get there. I hate using the ATC when I'm using the FMC controlled aircraft because the ATC does NOT know which runway I have selected and with ATIS only having a range of about 60nm, it makes it difficult to adjust your arrival selection and can put a lot of pressure on you to get it done as quickly as possible. At least the ATC will get descending in time, even if you FMC does not have a Top of Descent showing. The ATC in FSX does not use SIDs, STARs or TRANs and it's sense of guidance if laughable.

And by the way, you do you figure out the Center of Gravity?
With great difficulty! I use a figure of about 30-31 and it works well. I really don't know the correct formula, but aussie has a neat way of doing it in his tutorial, even if it isn't the correct way to do it.

Mark

but when you select a runway in the FMC, will it change your flight plan to send you to that runway?
If you mean the FMC. Yes it will. I often do the flight plan in the FMC and copy it to RTE 2 (before entering DEP, SID, ARR and STAR). That way, I can add the new information into RTE 2, activate it (but you have to make sure it goes to your next waypoint and doesn't try to return to the departure airport), fly the new STAR and TRANS.

Oh, and does that little circle icon on the picture of the plane in the Fuel and Payload window represent where your CG is?
Yes it does.

Mark

So I load my FS flight plan as Rte 1, then manually input a similar flight plan for Rte 2, but I program in the arrival and departure runways (the SIDs and STARs and such). Then I can activate Rte 2 and it will take me right in for an ILS landing, right?
No. In the RTE menu, select RTE COPY (LSK R4). It copies the entire active route into the inactive route.

Mark

Thanks for that Lou.

The airsirvicesaustralia.com link I already have. I have downloaded quite a lot of the Airport and Approach charts for Australia from there. I really love that VFRMAP! It would be awesome if someone would do one for here in Oz.

Mark

As time goes by, you will find more helpful stuff when it comes to the FMC. I still frequent the manual to look something up that I am not totally sure of. I never seems to end!

Mark

I just found a page in the 767 Manual III which has concise but good instructions on how to do an ILS approach. That should help.

One last thing: If you're using your flight plan to take you into the runway, how do you stop ATC from vectoring you?

I did a search online and it looks like there are payware ATC systems that you could buy. That's probably not something I would do, but it sounds good.

Cappy wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 8:31am:

It doesn't help when my flight attendant (wife) goes into town and I'm desperate for a cup of coffee. I go and try and do it and the stupid ATC has cancelled my IFR flight, that really makes me angry! It's even worse when I'm hobbling back and forth so I don't have that happen and it still does happen .

If you're not being vectored by ATC, how can you find the glideslope?
Also, how would you know when to start descending. Can you find the T/D point in the VNAV page?

Just to make sure, SIDs and STARs would be the Dep/Arr info, right?

Do I need to have VNAV turned on for it to take me into the glideslope?

boeing247

Still not reading the manuals? T/D is in Flight Management Part V, Page 75. It also appears on the HSI in map or plan mode as T/D in green.

Michael Cubine

When you enter the STAR & the ILS for the airport of intended landing, the altitudes will appear on the LEGS page. That way if you get vectored off the STAR to let's say the outer marker or something in between, it not a problem. In the RW, the controller will issue altitudes with radar vectoring. Sometimes the altitudes could be different from the published ones depending on the traffic.

In any event most controllers are very aware of the normal capabilities of the plane they are controlling and it would be rare for them to give you an instruction you would be unable to comply with using normal flight maneuvers.

It is also very helpful to have a printed chart on your desk next to the joystick so you can grab information at a glance and it will help with your situational awareness of where you are in the approach. In real life we would never fly an approach without the paper chart in the holder next to us, and the runway diagram as well so you don't get lost on the ground.  

End of lesson for the day...now go read some more!  
Lou

Okay, I've looked through the manual and found no solution to this, maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, but if so, I can't find the right one. Earlier, I was told to program the ARR/DEP runways, and that would change my flight plan so I fly directly from the runway, and LNAV would take me to the ILS heading at the airport which I land at. However, when I program this in, it does not change my flight plan. Shouldn't it be creating something like this (the Flightplan in the HSI)?

Ah...there is the rub.

When you plan your flight, sometimes the place from where you are coming from may not have a canned arrival route and transition. This is where the paper chart comes in handy. You may need to "build" the arrival in the computer and sort of customize your route. If you end up with a sharp turn from your route to the ILS, you can modify your route to soften the turn.

There are many approaches that do not have the exact flight path you might want. An example might be the VOR-13L/R at KJFK called the Parkway visual. I have not flown this approach in a while, but when I did there was not much help after CRI VOR because it was a visual type approach. Many of the pilots would build the details of the approach in the computer just for fun and watch the autopilot fly this multi-turn, step-down approach. That was too much work for me, but it kept them busy.

Have a look at this approach, it's like the River approach at KDCA.
http://www.fltplan.com/AwDisplayAppChart.exe?CRN10=1&CARRYUNAME=PILOT&DEPTARPT=K...

Here is the River approach at KDCA...
http://www.fltplan.com/AwDisplayAppChart.exe?CRN10=1&CARRYUNAME=PILOT&DEPTARPT=K...

Now have fun building either of these approaches in the FMC.  

The more you play with the FMC, the more it will start to make sense.

Keep this link so you can make approach plates and enroute charts. http://www.fltplan.com/awmaintoapproachplates.exe?crn10=1&carryuname=pilot&mode=...

Lou

Thanks Lou.

As always, the information you have provided is great. There have been many times when I have entered an extra waypoint or two so that I don't have any sharp turns (like the one in boeing247's images) and it is nice to know that it is okay to do that. I guess I should have ask a long time ago and, thanks to boeing247, I finally have an answer to what real airline pilots do.

Thanks

And a child shall lead them...