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 25 Lou - STORIES (Read 1036013 times)
LOU
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #480 - Sep 4th, 2011 at 4:22pm
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Good Job, Dave  Smiley
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #481 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 1:47am
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How about a little quiz on the Boeing planes?

Huh Why do the 727 and 737 have different leading devices inboard and outboard?

Undecided What about the 707 and the 747???

Lou
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #482 - Sep 7th, 2011 at 12:12am
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Too hard?  Sad

This is an easy piece of trivia.  Tongue
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #483 - Sep 7th, 2011 at 12:20am
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The 727 has a clean wing, therfore no nacelles in the way, and the 737 does have nacelles in the way.

The 747 has two settings of leading edge flaps rather than one.
  

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LOU
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #484 - Sep 7th, 2011 at 2:38am
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Peter the 727 and the 737 have a very similar set of leading edge flaps.

The question was: Why do the 727 and 737 have different leading devices inboard and outboard?

Here is a hint and a half....





The 707 & 747 also have similar type LE flaps.

WHY? What are they for and what do they do.

Lou


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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #485 - Sep 7th, 2011 at 12:55pm
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Does it have to do with critical airfoil?
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #486 - Sep 7th, 2011 at 3:39pm
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Think of wing roots, stalling, and wing thickness.....   Grin

Its because Boeing ran out of leading edge slats and said ah what the hell throw some kruegers in there!   Grin  J/K
  
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #487 - Sep 7th, 2011 at 5:13pm
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J/K is just about to hit the target. Peter, don't let him beat you!  Cheesy

Think about where you want the wing to stall last.

Hint: washout  Huh
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #488 - Sep 7th, 2011 at 6:07pm
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Should I tell him Lou?   Grin
  
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #489 - Sep 7th, 2011 at 6:37pm
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J/K,

Here is a side view drawing of a Kruger leading edge flap on the 727, 737.



And here is a photo of the same flap on a R W 737...



Here is the L E flap on the 747...



These are all forms of Kruger L E flaps.

My question is:

First, why the mix of Kruger and slats on the 727 & 737?

Second, why does the 707 and 747 have only Kruger L E flaps?

J/K, if you would like to answer, be my guest.  Wink

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #490 - Sep 7th, 2011 at 9:32pm
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Alllllright....here is my guess...hehehe

The 727/737 wings have a slightly higher swept back angle near the wing root....you want the inboard part of the wing to stall first and the thickness of the wing in that area makes the 3 krueger flaps the better bet inboard and the outboard 4 slats help delay the stall....

The Boeing 707 initially did not have kruegers to my knowlege and the leading edge slats were something Boeing tested for the 727 and then 737 (similar wing profile) after the inclusion of the kruegers on the 707.  Wing shape and thickness would be another reason for having a krueger flap (thinner vs thicker leading edge slats).  The inboard part of the wing is at its thickest and you would have to have alot more wing slide down vs fold out.   Wink
  
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #491 - Sep 8th, 2011 at 1:39am
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Correct!

There are two questions to answer here...

First, why the mix of Kruger and slats on the 727 & 737?

The Kruger flap is a pretty basic device. It folds forward from below the leading edge & diverts airflow over the top surface of the wing. More airflow flow over the top of the wing equals more lift. Air is trapped behind the flap and acts as a smoothing area keeping the airflow laminar both over and under the wing. At higher angles of attack the flow breaks down where the Kruger is installed stalling that part of the wing first. These type of Kruger flaps are installed inboard on the 727 and 737 with slats outboard to insure that the wing keeps its lift on the outboard part of the wing in much the same way the wing is washed out. You want the tip to stall last so you keep roll control right to the end.

Second, why does the 707 and 747 have only Kruger L E flaps?

In the case of the 707, the early ones had no L E devices. That did not last long as they were runway hogs.





As the 707 progressed, Kruger flaps were added to the wing. The progression of the -B -BA and -BAH saw additional Kruger flaps added. The reason for the Kruger vs the slat on the early Boeing planes was probably in part a cost factor. The Kruger was cheaper to make than the slat. When the 747 came along the designers were very innovative with a mix of Kruger flat flaps on the inboard part of the wing and variable camber Kruger flaps toward the outboard part of the wing. This insured the wing would keep flying at the tip during a stall.

The Kruger flap has the job of increasing lift and then stalling the wing root early to counter the pich up at stall inherent in swept wings. The cambered leading edge of the 747 does the same thing at moderate angles of attack, but hangs in there a bit longer, giving smooth flow and lift to much higher angles. Later models of the 767 and 757 lost the Kruger and went to more of a full span slat.

Lou
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #492 - Sep 8th, 2011 at 1:42pm
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Of course excellent explanation Lou!  Funny thing is the DC-8 had no kruegers or slats and you had to be way ahead of that bird on approach and landing.  The difference between a Boeing 707 (Cadillac) and a DC-8 (Mack truck) was huge! 

Now here is a question that Lou would know for sure.....for the 707/727 the pneumatic airbrake handle was located on the Captains MIP upper right side....where did TWA put theirs?  Wink
  
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LOU
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #493 - Sep 8th, 2011 at 2:54pm
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J/K, this is a question I talked about a long time back in this story thread. TWA did a lot of things different back in the 60's and even into the 70's. Some of the differences were good some were stupid and cost a lot of money.

Every panel in a TWA 707, 727 was turned upside down. The reason was you turned a switch up for on. On the overhead panel Boeing considered the panel a horizontal panel, thus forward was on. TWA thought of the panel as vertical, and up was on. This philosophy was carried into later planes until Boeing said no. The guy responsible for these designs in TWA retired and thus the 767, 757 escaped the changes.  

Putting the RED emergency air brake handle on the left side of the MIP was supposed to give the pilot the ability to use the brake handle with his left hand while allowing the right hand to be able to control the reverse levers. I suppose it could be argued that the tiller would have been something the pilot would may have needed to use as well, but I think at high speed the reverse levers could have been more important.
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #494 - Sep 9th, 2011 at 12:25am
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I have a buddy of mine who built my AA 707-123CC and you would not believe how some of the parts and configs changed from airline to airline. The throttle quad on the 707 was litterally slapped together vs the 727 which had more of a structure.  The 707 cockpit parts I have came from a 123CC and that airplane only had 2 turbo compressors vs the usual 3.  Some versions of the 707/727 had red firebottle handles on the center part of the glaresheild and some have them on the overhead.  My buddy has a 707-331B cockpit and that is one thing I noticed about the red emergency airbrake handle being on the left side of the MIP....our cockpits are very different indeed!   Smiley
  
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