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 25 Lou - STORIES (Read 1035984 times)
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #435 - Aug 24th, 2011 at 1:31pm
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Good job! Only took a week..
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #436 - Aug 25th, 2011 at 7:23pm
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Here is a video of a TWA 747 at max gross taking off from ATH.
Listen for the F/O call out V1 and look at the remaining runway...Do you think it would stop on the remaining runway?  Shocked

There are also some nice shots of the 747 and other TWA planes, along with a nostalgic look back at what was my home for forty years.  Cry

Lou


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J7K-DxlgOs&feature=related
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #437 - Aug 26th, 2011 at 4:18pm
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Thanks for sharing that Lou.. everytime I watch a video like that I flash back to sitting next to the ramp at Augusta Maine watching Northeast DC3's takeoff and land with my dad. Seeing American icons like TWA, Braniff, Allegheny , Piedmont, PanAm  etc dissapear simply  is beyond belief. I actually saw a USAir plane the other day with an Allegheny tail, I couldnt believe my eyes!

I envy you your career. Do you belong to this group?..
http://www.twaseniorsclub.org/
  

Flight Lead: "Bandits at 3 oclock!!!"&&Wingman: "It's only 2:30 now, what do we do til then?"
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #438 - Aug 26th, 2011 at 5:45pm
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JagG, No I don't, I'm too young!  Tongue
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #439 - Aug 26th, 2011 at 6:11pm
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #440 - Aug 26th, 2011 at 6:38pm
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Nope, those are all old farts in that ad!  Shocked Grin ;
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #441 - Aug 26th, 2011 at 7:19pm
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Hey, I heard Howard Hughes hired you!??   Grin

Btw, great video above!! Spent almost the entire flight to ATH in the 747 upstairs F/CL lounge on that TWA/cruise trip.

Bruce
  
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #442 - Aug 26th, 2011 at 8:51pm
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LOU wrote on Aug 26th, 2011 at 5:45pm:
JagG, No I don't, I'm too young!  Tongue


LOL I hear ya, but they have some nice videos on that site.
  

Flight Lead: "Bandits at 3 oclock!!!"&&Wingman: "It's only 2:30 now, what do we do til then?"
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #443 - Aug 28th, 2011 at 1:05am
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Some of you pilots like to fly into KLAX. There are 4 parallel runways and they use them all at once. The big jets usually have a long final where we would intercept the LOC 30 miles from the airport and do a step down arrival while the tower would feed smaller planes into the ILS when there was space. Here is a look at what it would be like to be in the cockpit of a commuter plane, or maybe a DC-9/MD-80 flying into KLAX after sunset. Watch for the traffic on the other runways. If you connection is fast, run it at HD 720-P and turn up the sound!

This is the SADDE 6 Arrival into KLAX from the north. In the video you can follow the arrival using this chart.



Here is the approach plate for runway 24R - the one used in this video. Remember there are three other runways, all in use!
The yellow is the path the video plane took, and the red dashed line is the ILS RW 24R. The video is speed-ed up, but you can still get a good idea how it looks.



Enjoy,
Lou

http://www.flixxy.com/twilight-landing-los-angeles-airport-cockpit-view.htm

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #444 - Aug 28th, 2011 at 2:27am
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Nice one.
I think for a pilot without any knowledge about the area this will be a tricky thing and the instruments will be his best friends then.
Also, one shouldn't forget that 'dense' from the pilots side means 'even more dense' on the ATC one.
It also gives the modern and severe phenomenon of light pollution a new meaning.  Grin


Lou, just by subjective measurements, what's the densest area you flew to? That Ney York triple airport setup or somewhere else? Chicago? What about the places that have more than one (official) language in the air?
Did you have to silence the TCAS somewhere because traffic calls drove you nuts?

LOU wrote on Aug 26th, 2011 at 6:38pm:
Nope, those are all old farts in that ad!  Shocked Grin ;

Maybe some Lou FO or FE in the background?
  
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #445 - Aug 28th, 2011 at 3:17am
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CoolP, KORD by far the one with the most traffic, maybe a close second would be KATL & KLAX areas as they get a big mix of traffic. The New York area did not seem as bad as Chicago.

As for language, Some times the French ATC areas of Europe would mix English and French, but I speak French so it was not a mystery. Once you get south of the Med, the communications can be iffy! Poor English and poor radios.

The procedure for close parallel approaches was to silence the TCAS and just use the TCAS display and visual - out the window. KSFO was one of the closest parallel approaches in the system. They would always stagger the planes so you would have a bit more room.

Lou
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #446 - Aug 29th, 2011 at 4:30am
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A dumb question in that context maybe.
When listening to the rw chatter the newbie easily reaches a level of 'how do they manage to get all this?' but this doesn't take into account the proficiency one gains when acting in that environment all day long.
But where does the tricky part for even the skilled ATC listeners (and at the same time pilots) start then?
  
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #447 - Aug 29th, 2011 at 9:05pm
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One of the things that makes understanding some the radio chatter is anticipation and common phrases.

The pilot or controller are used to a certain flow of the message along with standard phraseology.

ATC: American 1062 Chicago, fly heading 220, climb and maintain one zero thousand.
PILOT: American 1062, 220, maintain ten.

ATC: Air France 862, traffic eleven o'clock, five miles, British 747, follow him, intercept RW 22R LOC, descend to five.
PILOT: Air France 862, roger, follow 747, intercept 22R LOC, leaving 7 for 5.

These are fairly standard interactions between ATC & Pilot. As long as the communications stays in the area of common phrases the information seems to work. It's when either side leaves the area of standard and anticipated communications that the understanding begins to fall apart. One of the videos of the landing on the Hudson by Captain Sully has an actual recording of the communications between the USAir flight and LGA departure. As long as the communications stays in the area of what is anticipated it works just fine. As soon as Sully starts to talk about hitting birds and engine failures you can hear the breakdown of the understood message. This is an area as an instructor that we spent a lot of time with crews to obtain this common and precise communication so that the message sent is the message received.

Here is and example of message SENT but information not received.

In the cockpit the pilot monitors several channels of communication. For instance, at the gate when getting ready to push and start the pilots would have to be listening to at least three different channels. ATC, ground & cabin inter-phone.

Here is the set-up. ATC calls with a push back clearance. At the same time the cabin announcement is being made about all passengers seated etc. Since the ATC call is something the pilot has to listen to and really understand, some times the pilot will either turn down or turn off the cabin announcement as the ATC clearance is given. Then the pilot has to communicate with the ground push back crew and relay the ATC instructions for the push back. While this is going on a fire starts in the cabin and the F/A dings the pilot and says "we have a fire should we evacuate?" The pilot who did not hear the message since he either turned down the volume or turned off the cabin inter-phone during the push back clearance only heard the ding of the cabin call. The pilot picks up the inter-phone handset pushes the PTT button and says... "Go Ahead."

So you think the message SENT was the message RECEIVED?

This actually happened just as I described and the F/A's opened all the doors and initiated an evacuation while the plane was being pushed back. People were injured since the plane was moving and damage to the plane was sustained. Only when the push crew saw the slides being deployed was the cockpit crew informed and the plane stopped. The fire was nothing more than heavy condensation from the air conditioner because of very high humidity.

This is why it is so important to communicate clearly. This is why ATC demands a read back of ALL hold short instructions. They need to have that feed-back loop of communications.

We all must eschew obfuscation!  Shocked

  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #448 - Aug 30th, 2011 at 1:52pm
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Great story, Lou. Also shows how small things like a bit of smoke can really hurt people if the right chain of circumstances builds up.
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So you think the message SENT was the message RECEIVED?

Reminds me of the other thing in communication, the 'expected wording' against the actual one. Didn't they change 'ready tor takeoff' into 'ready for departure' after that Tenerife disaster for example? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster

Not to read this the wrong way, there were numerous things and circumstances in place (or not in place, so to speak) to get those two jumbos running onto each other, but one thing was that 'did he say takeoff? .. ok, rollin'!' and you are perfectly right, as long as the situation stays common and regular, the communication often enough does too.

I'd also say that the ATC part is a tricky one. You may hear an aircraft crew struggling with an emergency and you instantly want to help and, by doing this, you tend to give way more information than needed in that situation.
That Sully video shows the controller giving a ton of options for the guy while he had quite some task load in the cockpit and his answers get shorter and shorter just because anything more than vectors is too much.
I think they've stressed the need for 'wait what the pilot demands' in that situation after this. If he tells ATC he wants to return, then help him, don't list all the various options on the freq before he stated his intentions. And keep it short!  Grin

But that case is a great one in many aspects. Although I don't applaud to any hero stories, I absolutely agree that this guy has earned his money on that day more than once. A perfect example of decision making in a stressful environment (which can only be trained on a very limited basis when it comes to the psychological impacts on a human being) and a good coordination on the other hand, of the whole crew.

Please correct me, Lou, but I'd say that even the most experienced pilot will get lets call it nervous when he gets forced to choose a landing spot within some seconds and then has to perform a real water landing, not a simulated one.
And the heaviest part of this may not be the actual landing but the 'simple' decision that this landing will be one on the Hudson. It's a big difference if your decisions stay within the time where you can actually choose between them or if they happen when already being outside of that small corridor, turning you into somebody only following his fate.

By the way, there's a great example of good com going around with that Thompson plane, just having one engine failure due to birdstrike though. Very good ATC, very good pilots. All of them professionals as they should be. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPkZBR89y_M
I could post some bad examples too though, but lets stay positive.  Cheesy

And another one for every pilot. It must be big 'fun' in the real world to see all the firetrucks moving towards the runway just to watch your landing, If your ac is not the first one of its type to land there.   Shocked
  
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #449 - Aug 30th, 2011 at 3:25pm
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"Please correct me, Lou, but I'd say that even the most experienced pilot will get lets call it nervous when he gets forced to choose a landing spot within some seconds and then has to perform a real water landing, not a simulated one."

I'm sure Lou will weigh in, but from my few (thank god) limited times I have had to make decisions about 'unscheduled' off airport landings, there aint no time to get nervous, thats comes after the fact. It's not nervous after either, it's either "WHEW, we made it" or OH SH**, no in between Smiley

Your training kicks in and you are far too busy at the time to have any emotion's other than 'where am I going to put it and whats the best way to get it there.
  

Flight Lead: "Bandits at 3 oclock!!!"&&Wingman: "It's only 2:30 now, what do we do til then?"
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