Gents -

Where to start? I usually turn on the AP soon after gear & flaps up. At about 3000ft I turn off the HDG Hold and turn on VOR/LOC and switch from NAV to GPS. Now the AP is flying the GPS flt pln and I can concentrate on just power and climb rate. I have the elevator trim programed to the left yoke switch below the Hat Switch (Saitek yoke). I try to keep it trimmed at about 2000-2200 fpm on the VSI. Up to about 15-18000 there is plenty of power (I don't know anything about epr and fuel flow etc). But from there on the throttles are firewalled and I have to keep leveling off for a few minutes to let the power get back up over 200kts. If I'm IFR ATC is constantly on my butt to expedite my climb, so I switch channels! Now I'm VFR. It takes forever to get to fl320! Once there and I get back up to 300kts (.8 Mach) all is well.

No problem with the AP on GS Auto picking up the coupled approach. Localizer activates and so does the glide slope. I try to keep the airspeed properly set according to weight and flap settings using small inputs as you say, but at approximately 1000-800 ft agl the nose comes up (even if power setting is correct at about 125kts-135k lbs & flaps 30) and I have to disengage the AP and push the nose down , add some power and then the dance begins! Seems at first I'm in good shape aligned with the runway and I get to 2 red & 2 white. Then the darn runway starts moving around It really seems that there is some sort of programming twist that keeps me from getting back to perfect alignment with the center line. I usually get it on the ground but left of the center line. People yelling and screaming in the back end!! They make me nervous---I think I'll buy the freighter!!  

JP - I don't know what a TOLD card is or how to use it, but if you think that will help I take one!! Is that something you clip on the yoke clip board?

Here's a short video of the landing in STL after I aborted the first attempt and hand flew from there on. I didn't save the flt this time so I'll fly an ATL/STL flight today and try it again. This time I'll save it just prior to intercepting the localizer for 30L.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrbrcX02_BQ

Bruce

Lou-

I believe TO weight was 146k. I can see that I need to lighten the load a bit.

"Let 'em scream! They bought a ticket, give 'em a ride!" Now that is really funny!!! My wife came and asked what I was laughing at!

The NAV1 radio was tuned to the 30L ILS frequency. I just disengaged the AP and left everything as it was. And yes I was at flaps 40, which I didn't think I was---till I got on the ground.

Awhile ago I set up and ATL/STL flt. I set the fuel with full wing tanks and the center tank at empty. Total weight was right at 150k. While holding short at the active I noticed engine 2 was not running!! CTRL-E would not start it. I reset the flt with 10,000lbs in all 3 tanks and then all engines were running. I still had to nurse it from the mid teens up to fl320, but not near as tedious as yesterday. I think JP hit on the problem when he asked if all the engines were running! I think not!! I think I flew the whole trip on 2 engines including the go around.

Right now I'm paused at fl320 and 295kts. I'm 170 miles from STL and my weight is 139k and I've got 22,800 lbs of gas left. I also cleared all AI traffic out so it's just atc and me the rest of the way. When I resume I will file IFR and get clearance. Then I'll start sweating again! I think I had better buy everyone in the back a couple drinks on TWA?  

Ooops, I just re-read about being IFR above 180!

Crab-Flare-Align. I'll remember that!! Thanks again for all the good advice and help!

Bruce

btscott wrote on Mar 25^th, 2010 at 4:45pm:

Hi Bruce.

I have the elevator trim set to two of the buttons on my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick (I know. It's a cheapie!). The thing that I find is that once the A/P AIL and ELEV switches are turned on, I can't control the pitch with my assigned buttons on my joystick, the A/P overrides my changes. Could this be the reason the plane is struggling to climb? I have to use the trim UP and DOWN buttons on the A/P to get the changes I need. I always use the 2D A/P panel because even if I look around the cockpit, it is always in view (@ Lou & JP - I know it's cheating). Another thing is, if I undock it, it goes to every camera view I switch to.

Mark

EDIT: I just thought that maybe you DON'T turn on the A/P ELEV switch, which might allow you to use the programmed buttons on your yoke.

Quick review of fuel use in the 727

During fueling, the three tanks are filled EQUALLY until the wings shutoff (full). The rest of the fuel is placed in the #2 tank.

If the center tank quantity is greater than tanks 1 & 2 :

1. Start ALL engines tank-to-engine. (center x-feed valve open to keep fuel pressure in the cross feed manifold - 1 & 3 x-feed closed)
2. After takeoff, and before 3,000# are burned, start a X-feed feeding ALL engines from tank 2.
  (see JP's F/E checklist - nothing is done with out crew coordination - EVER!)
3. When tanks are equal, return to tank-to-engine.

I talked about this in another post. Two things to remember about the fuel system.

1. Swept wing - wing tank fuel is aft of center tank so the above fuel use is for balance.
2. Center -big tank! Center fuel tank must be equal or greater than wing tanks for structural reasons.
   Bruce, think of the mass of the fuel in the center tank pushing out while the wing tanks are pushing in.
   In your case with wings full and center empty the structure would fail.
   NOTE: CS-727 fuel seems to have an error in that if a tank goes dry, even though the cross feeds are opened
   and the boost pumps are on in the supply tank, the engine quits. Not so in the real plane. In fact, the
   engines - in most cases - will suction feed without the boost pumps as long as the cross feed is opened.

   Do not attempt this at home!  
   
   During flight test, we would go through all sorts of weird checks (no screamers on board) and it always amazed me how well this post
   WW II plane did. Remember the CS-727 is a game and not always exact, but it is still - for the money - a very cool simulator.

Also, NEVER use ELECTRIC trim input with the autopilot engaged. To do so in the real plane would trip off the autopilot.
You could use manual trim, but why? The autopilot will do a good job if you have the plane trimmed before you engage it.
Most of the 727 were bent and needed some rudder or aileron trim - that's OK since it is manual.

I just flew a few ILS approaches using the autopilot. I left the autopilot engaged to about 50 feet and for the most part it did a good job. I even had the plane out of trim to see what it would do and after a few oscillations it settled down and flew the approach. The flight director, as far as I can, tell does nothing much but follow the horizon.

Bruce, your videos are great! Keep it up.

Lou
   

The 727 is bare bones flying. When pilots were pilots.  

Use the pitch control on the autopilot to hold 280-310 kts. Rememebr the 250 kt speed limit below 10,000 feet MSL (mean sea level). Keep the airspeed below 250 kts below 10,000 then pitch the nose over at 10,000 MSL and accelerate to your climb speed. All but ignore the VSI. As long as it's over 500' per min your OK.

Hey.... if it was easy everyone would be doing it! 

I had no idea about not exhausting the center tank, I am used to operating the 737 and 747 in the sim. So I will fill up all 3 tanks equally and let them feed their respective engines.