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 25 Possible 250kts below 10k bug (Any chime-ins?) (Read 3157 times)
Alex T
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Re: Possible 250kts below 10k bug (Any chime-ins?)
Reply #15 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 4:05am
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logan3db wrote on Apr 29th, 2020 at 2:54am:
Do you remember if your Cruise page gave you 250, or another number above that? 


It gave me 315KIAS or something to that effect
  
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Eurosky
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Re: Possible 250kts below 10k bug (Any chime-ins?)
Reply #16 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 5:35am
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The aircraft should not accelerate above 250kts below 10000' in VNAV if you have that speed restriction entered on the Climb page. (SPD Trans/SPD Restr).   
The FMC Legs page should not show a speed higher than 250/10000'.
The speeds on the legs page are wrong below 10000'.
One waypoint has a speed restriction on the arrival of 210/5000. The next waypoint is showing 307 kts etc.

Secondly when going direct to a waypoint with a speed restriction on the FMC Legs page,  the Captain Sim 757/767 immediately decelerates/accelerate to that speed irrespective of the distance to that waypoint. Also not correct.

I also notice when selecting an STAR on the arrival page on the FMC the first waypoint seems to missing from the STAR.
Tried a few airports and several different STARS, first waypoint was always missing on my system. Newest Airac installed from Navigraph.

LNAV is also a bit inaccurate. Has a tendency to turn early and undershoot the turn on an SID etc. Resulting in left and right turn oscillations.

I see the 757 got the same speed issues etc. Been reported numerous times. Bit surprised this had not been addressed. 

Offset capability?
FMC ALTN page?
FMC COMM page?
RNP Entry?
EICARS, for weather/atis uplinks etc?

Would be nice if Captain sim also incorporated an IPAD/TABLET on the window bracket for performance calculations and charts etc.
Most serious developers seems to be adding this feature nowdays Smiley.

Chris
  
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Alex T
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Re: Possible 250kts below 10k bug (Any chime-ins?)
Reply #17 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 12:40pm
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Eurosky wrote on Apr 29th, 2020 at 5:35am:
The aircraft should not accelerate above 250kts below 10000' in VNAV if you have that speed restriction entered on the Climb page. (SPD Trans/SPD Restr).   
The FMC Legs page should not show a speed higher than 250/10000'.
The speeds on the legs page are wrong below 10000'.
One waypoint has a speed restriction on the arrival of 210/5000. The next waypoint is showing 307 kts etc.

Secondly when going direct to a waypoint with a speed restriction on the FMC Legs page,  the Captain Sim 757/767 immediately decelerates/accelerate to that speed irrespective of the distance to that waypoint. Also not correct.

I also notice when selecting an STAR on the arrival page on the FMC the first waypoint seems to missing from the STAR.
Tried a few airports and several different STARS, first waypoint was always missing on my system. Newest Airac installed from Navigraph.

LNAV is also a bit inaccurate. Has a tendency to turn early and undershoot the turn on an SID etc. Resulting in left and right turn oscillations.

I see the 757 got the same speed issues etc. Been reported numerous times. Bit surprised this had not been addressed. 

Offset capability?
FMC ALTN page?
FMC COMM page?
RNP Entry?
EICARS, for weather/atis uplinks etc?

Would be nice if Captain sim also incorporated an IPAD/TABLET on the window bracket for performance calculations and charts etc.
Most serious developers seems to be adding this feature nowdays Smiley.

Chris


Entering a custom RNP works just fine on the 757/767 I use it often on ETOPS routes and RNP approaches.
I’ve also noticed the first waypoint is always missing on an approach if you choose a transition. You should post your concerns on the bug tracking page with the proper photos and information.
  
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Eurosky
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Re: Possible 250kts below 10k bug (Any chime-ins?)
Reply #18 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 2:12pm
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They clearly know what is not correct with this airplane. Lots of reports relating to the Vnav speed management etc.
I see the same issues on the 757 and that aircraft have been on the market for a while without any attempts to fix this basic Boeing FMS management.
I like realism and the simulation should get the basics correct as a minimum. 
It has potential, but it is far behind when it comes to correct speed management and accurate and precise flight path management.
  
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Alex T
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Re: Possible 250kts below 10k bug (Any chime-ins?)
Reply #19 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 2:33pm
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Eurosky wrote on Apr 29th, 2020 at 2:12pm:
The clearly know what is not correct with this airplane. Lots of reports relating to the Vnav speed management etc.
I see the same issues on the 757 and that aircraft have been on the market for a while without any attempts to fix this basic Boeing FMC management.
I like realism and the simulation should get the basics correct as a minimum. 
It has potential, but it is far behind when it comes to correct speed management and accurate and precise flight path management.


For sure lots of things to be fixed with VNAV, I posted VERY detailed issues yesterday on the bug forum. They've acknowledged and thanked me for the reports and said they're working on it. We will see my friend!
  
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logan3db
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Re: Possible 250kts below 10k bug (Any chime-ins?)
Reply #20 - May 1st, 2020 at 7:17pm
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Alex T wrote on Apr 29th, 2020 at 4:05am:
logan3db wrote on Apr 29th, 2020 at 2:54am:
Do you remember if your Cruise page gave you 250, or another number above that? 


It gave me 315KIAS or something to that effect


Alright, I had a chance to load this up and try it out.  Granted both of these pictures were taken while on the ground, both times the FMC defaulted to a speed of 250 for the cruise.  I didn't get a chance to see what would actually happen in cruise flight, so unfortunately this was as good as I could get.

I loaded the same scenario in the FMC on the ground and I get a speed above 250 as well.  A quick edit of the ECON speed on VNAV CRZ fixes it to the way it should be.  The real FMC will perform this edit on it's own. 

I know that it goes back to my original post for a work around, but as far as I can tell this is indeed a bug.  Hope this info helps!

RW FMC 8000' cruise: https://imgur.com/a/1joQKRk
RW FMC 5000' cruise: https://imgur.com/a/MCAPD8Y
P3D FMC 5000' cruise no edit: https://imgur.com/a/bofbopL
P3D FMC 5000' cruise speed edit:https://imgur.com/a/hTHb4px
  
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Alex T
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Re: Possible 250kts below 10k bug (Any chime-ins?)
Reply #21 - May 1st, 2020 at 7:30pm
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logan3db wrote on May 1st, 2020 at 7:17pm:
Alex T wrote on Apr 29th, 2020 at 4:05am:
logan3db wrote on Apr 29th, 2020 at 2:54am:
Do you remember if your Cruise page gave you 250, or another number above that? 


It gave me 315KIAS or something to that effect


Alright, I had a chance to load this up and try it out.  Granted both of these pictures were taken while on the ground, both times the FMC defaulted to a speed of 250 for the cruise.  I didn't get a chance to see what would actually happen in cruise flight, so unfortunately this was as good as I could get.

I loaded the same scenario in the FMC on the ground and I get a speed above 250 as well.  A quick edit of the ECON speed on VNAV CRZ fixes it to the way it should be.  The real FMC will perform this edit on it's own. 

I know that it goes back to my original post for a work around, but as far as I can tell this is indeed a bug.  Hope this info helps!

RW FMC 8000' cruise: https://imgur.com/a/1joQKRk
RW FMC 5000' cruise: https://imgur.com/a/MCAPD8Y
P3D FMC 5000' cruise no edit: https://imgur.com/a/bofbopL
P3D FMC 5000' cruise speed edit:https://imgur.com/a/hTHb4px


That's awesome, thanks for taking the time to check it out! I'll post this on the bug tracker and I'm sure it's a relatively quick fix in logic for them.
  
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Michel
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Re: Possible 250kts below 10k bug (Any chime-ins?)
Reply #22 - May 1st, 2020 at 8:25pm
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The speed restriction of 250/10000ft is only set during climb, it is on VNAV CLB page. When the plane reaches the desired cruice altitude, preselected on PERF or VNAV CRZ page, it changes his performance to the one entered on that page. It is part of the preflight to analyze and set the speed that you want to be set on cruise.
  
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Alex T
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Re: Possible 250kts below 10k bug (Any chime-ins?)
Reply #23 - May 1st, 2020 at 8:30pm
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Michel wrote on May 1st, 2020 at 8:25pm:
The speed restriction of 250/10000ft is only set during climb, it is on VNAV CLB page. When the plane reaches the desired cruice altitude, preselected on PERF or VNAV CRZ page, it changes his performance to the one entered on that page. It is part of the preflight to analyze and set the speed that you want to be set on cruise.


Not exactly, apparently when CRZ is below 10k, the plane knows to keep it at 250Kt
  
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Alex T
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Re: Possible 250kts below 10k bug (Any chime-ins?)
Reply #24 - May 1st, 2020 at 9:07pm
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Michel wrote on May 1st, 2020 at 8:25pm:
The speed restriction of 250/10000ft is only set during climb, it is on VNAV CLB page. When the plane reaches the desired cruice altitude, preselected on PERF or VNAV CRZ page, it changes his performance to the one entered on that page. It is part of the preflight to analyze and set the speed that you want to be set on cruise.


Or is this from real qorld experience? I know the 737 doesn't do that and the FMSs are somewhat similar.
  
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Re: Possible 250kts below 10k bug (Any chime-ins?)
Reply #25 - May 1st, 2020 at 10:45pm
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Planned decels have been a little bit of an issue (on my end). I was approaching a fix with a 250kt restriction (had to manually input -  FLASK.OZZZI1 27L @ ATL) and it kept an adequate descent but leveled off with just 2nm to go and 50kts of speed to bleed (no "drag required" annunciation on FMS). Thoroughly enjoying the product, glad there finally is a [decent] 767 for P3D v4. I put a lot of time on the FSX version as well as some other devs.
  

Alex
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