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Stuck autothrottle (Read 10302 times)
parsec71
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Stuck autothrottle
Apr 28th, 2019 at 3:00pm
 
I purchased the 777 base pack yesterday (beta 0.3), and after a couple of aborted flights, I want to share my feedback on this aircraft. I'm always honest with developers, because it's my experience after 30+ years of dealing with software that that's the only way to do it. I also want to use my vast sim experience to push CS to new heights, having thousands of hours in FSX, FSW, X-Plane and P3D in all major dev's aircraft.

The first thing I noticed with this 777 is a performance issue especially noticeable in the cockpit. When FPS drops below 25, the human eye start to notice it, and this aircraft is at 15 to 19 FPS on ground on my computer (i7-6700K/GTX 1070 8 GB/32 GB RAM, P3D v4.4). So obviously there's some (excessive) processing going on in some systems or the gauges/panels. Outside the 777 I get about 30 FPS. As I've understood I'm not the only one having this experience, so this is something that must be looked at.

The real show-stopper for me is the fact that the (auto)throttle gets stuck at cruise. Follow the link below to watch a YT-video. No matter what I do, the throttle is stuck and keeps accelerating the aircraft. The video also shows the low FPS (Fraps in upper left corner).

Meters should disappear completely after pressing MTRS, the 777 still show it above the purple feet indication top right of the PFD.

VNAV logic is where devs show their skills. The CS 777 is pitching at maximum angle given speed or thrust available. This is not how Boeing (or Airbus for that matter) does it in real life. The nose will bob up and down as the aircraft searches for optimum climb angle while maintaining the speed set in the FMC. This is beautifully and realistically done by a competing dev, but I'm sure CS is capable of recreating this logic for their 777.

If CS can put fuel and pax/cargo load in the EFB or FMC/CDU, that would be lovely.

The outside 3D model looks stunning, just like the 757 which is the most beautiful re-creation in any sim. The cockpit is okay, but the panels could have had a more Boeing-like typeface or at least a more clear text appearance.

Link to video (unlisted YT video, only available if you have the link):

youtu.be/5uc75jgD5No

(As I've not posted 3 times in this forum, I'm not allowed to make the link click-able. Sorry for that...)
  
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Markoz
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #1 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 8:59pm
 
parsec71 wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 3:00pm:
The real show-stopper for me is the fact that the (auto)throttle gets stuck at cruise. No matter what I do, the throttle is stuck and keeps accelerating the aircraft.

While the 777 did this to me on the first 2 flights I did in v0.1, and the first flight I did in v0.2, it never did it in any flights following those ones, and it hasn't done it at all in v0.3.

Note. To stop the overspeeding, I pressed the IAS/MACH Selector switch, and rolled the speed back to .85, then pressed the IAS/MACH Selector switch a second time, and it would follow the 0.833 that was showing on the VNAV CRZ page. So at least I had a work-around for the problem when it did happen.
  

Mark Fletcher



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DV006
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #2 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 10:46pm
 
I too am having a similar problem.  I had done a couple of successful flights, but then the autothrottle started to act just like described.  My flight plan called for a cruise of .833 mach at fl340.  As soon as i reached that cruise, the speed continued to climb.  I tried as you told to click on the speed button and adjust the mach reading to .85 and then click on it again, my speed continued to increase.  i click on the speed button again and now I am up to mach.891, so I adjust it back to .833 and click on the speed button again and it continues to increase speed again.  Click on the speed button again and now it is up to .893.  Nothing seems to keep it under control, unless i am misunderstanding what you are instructing.  Not sure what you are saying by pressing the ias/mac button.  It does nothing to let me change it.  Only the speed button does.  Thanks.
  
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Markoz
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #3 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 3:07am
 
If you look at the attached image (screenshot of the MCP):

In the red box is the IAS/MACH Reference Switch.
In the yellow box is the IAS/MACH Display - scrolling the mouse wheel up/down, while the mouse pointer is hovering over the window (AND the speed is displayed on it) will change the speed up, or down.
In the green box is the IAS/MACH Selector Switch - if you click on it when using VNAV mode, the speed will display in the IAS/MACH Display above it, and use the mouse wheel on it changes the speed up/down, and it's this switch that I was clicking on and using to slow the 777 down.

Quote:
‘777 Captain’ MANUAL Part II – Aircraft and Systems (CS777CAPTAINII_MANUAL_PART2.pdf) page 33:

13. IAS / MACH Selector

When not in VNAV, the IAS/MACH window shows the current target airspeed.
Turn the IAS/MACH selector to change the target airspeed.

In VNAV, the IAS/MACH window is normally blank. If you push the selector, the
window unblanks to show thecurrent FMC target airspeed.
You can then turn the IAS/MACH selector tochange the target airspeed. This
is speed intervention.

  

2019-4-29_12-43-19-168.jpg ( 121 KB | 159 Downloads )
2019-4-29_12-43-19-168.jpg

Mark Fletcher



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Markoz
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #4 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 4:43am
 
Ouch! I just had this happen to me for the first time in v0.3, but I was flying the 777-300ER GE115B (it's the first time I have flown the 777-300 in v0.3).

Pressing the IAS/MACH Selector Switch did not fix the problem, but as I was pressing the switch, I somehow wound up clicking on the IAS/MACH Reference Switch (MACH Speed showed .9xx in the speed display (I can't see exactly what it was, as Nvidia Shadowplay was recording at *medium quality in P3Dv4, and the video looks so crappy I can't read anything on the panels)), and when I clicked on it a second time, the throttle levers retarded, and the speed started dropping, and now the 777-300 is happily cruising along at .833, like it should be. Undecided

*Nvidia Shadowplay set at medium quality creates great videos in all my other games, but not in P3Dv4.
  

Mark Fletcher



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parsec71
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #5 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 2:10pm
 
No matter which buttons I press, the stuck throttle won't go away. Third flight aborted, and I will leave this bird in the hangar for now until this bug is squashed.

Regarding the framerate issue, the panel config-file on the 200ER is 32 KB. A lot of stuff going on in that cockpit, which seriously impacts performance. The file on the 200LR from a competing dev is 21 KB...
  
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Captain Sim
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #6 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 2:12pm
 
parsec71 wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 3:00pm:
a performance issue especially noticeable in the cockpit.

Try to turn off the pax cabin.

We'll check the AT and if it's an easy fix will do it.

The fuel and payload manager will appear in the 1.0.
  
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parsec71
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #7 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 2:19pm
 
Captain Sim wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 2:12pm:
Try to turn off the pax cabin.


Done that, the increase in performance is minuscule, 2 or 3 fps.
  
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Captain Sim
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #8 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 2:51pm
 
parsec71 wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 3:00pm:
The real show-stopper for me is the fact that the (auto)throttle gets stuck at cruise.

Pls save the flight right at the issue and attach the files to your post. 
  
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DV006
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #9 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 3:45pm
 
Thanks for the further explanation.  I did a different flight from Denver to L.A. and again, the speed kept going up.  This time your fix did solve the problem.  Not sure why it would not work on the other flights that I tried that.  I will continue to use this fix for now, but do look for a permanent fix in the near future.
  
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Markoz
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #10 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 5:32am
 
It has happened twice today in the 777-300ER. I have saved the flight and attached it to this post.
  

CS777-300ER_Overspeed.zip ( 33 KB | 144 Downloads )

Mark Fletcher



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parsec71
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #11 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 9:41am
 
Here's a ZIP with the files from my 4th straight flight in which the A/T is stuck at cruise.

Another observation: The APU seems to burn way too much fuel, creating an unbalance in the tanks which in turn can't be corrected because the crossfeed isn't working (perhaps not modelled...).

Also, the engines and their derate, this is not modelled correctly. During climb, the green number on the EICAS/N1, this will be identical to the number actual shown in white which indicates which value the engines are running at. This is due to the fact the FADEC will always feed the engines what the pilots have allowed it to do through the derate temp selection. At the end of climb, the derate is perhaps 98%, but the indication shows perhaps only 90%.
  

777-200ER_stuck_autothrottle.zip ( 130 KB | 169 Downloads )
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DV006
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #12 - May 8th, 2019 at 10:04pm
 
I really do hope that Captain Sim will come up with a fix for the autothrottle problem that many are experiencing.  Today, I am flying and it took me over half an hour to get the cruise speed settled to what the flight plan called for.  This involved disconnecting the autopilot, turning off the autothrottle switches and numerous times, adjusting the mach speed with no resolution   Once it settled, I noticed that the altitude went up to a thousand feet above the planned altitude even though the altitude screen was set for 39000 feet which matched the cdu altitude.
   
Not sure what the problem is.  I thought this was a plane that was brought over from a 32 bit program and made into a 64 bit program to work with P3D.  Does changing the bit rate also affect a lot of the parameters which is what it is doing to the autothrottle?  I'm not a techy so I don't know.  All I know is that it is making it very difficult and frustrating to try to fly this wonderful plane.
  
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Dan Genaw
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #13 - May 13th, 2019 at 3:14am
 
Hello,

I'd just like to add that this happened to me as well. I was flying the 200ER with PW engines and the thrust levers were useless. The auto thrust wasn't stuck, but the thrust setting was. Meaning even disconnecting the AT and manually moving the thrust levers couldn't get the thrust setting to change. The levers were physically (well, virtually physically) moving but the EPR/N1% all stayed the same.

I have saved my flight and uploaded it. I am flying on P3D V4.5 on Win 10 Home edition.

Update: So I managed to regain control of my thrust settings. I turned off the AT and cycled the throttle on my joystick a number of times. (wasn't really counting but probably 20-30) Eventually, one engine decreased in thrust in accordance with the my control inputs. I turned on the AT, and both engines responded to it. I manged to recreate the stuck thrust setting by putting the aircraft into a climb using VS (vertical speed). Once again, turning off the AT and cycling the throttle on my joystick got the thrust working again. Again, I didn't really count the times but it felt like a lot.
  

PW200ER_Stuckthrottles.zip ( 143 KB | 116 Downloads )
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Captain Sim
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #14 - May 13th, 2019 at 1:17pm
 
DV006 wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 10:04pm:
I really do hope that Captain Sim will come up with a fix for the autothrottle problem

We are working on it.
  
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DV006
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #15 - May 13th, 2019 at 6:16pm
 
Thank you with your reply that you are working on it.  I also have your CS757 and when an update was available, and I tried to fly that plane, it would pop up with a web site to notify of the update.  Will we receive that kind of notification on the CS777?
  
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Captain Sim
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #16 - May 14th, 2019 at 2:06pm
 
DV006 wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 6:16pm:
Will we receive that kind of notification on the CS777?

Yes
  
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Captain Sim
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #17 - May 18th, 2019 at 8:43pm
 
Meanwhile this is a hot fix of the stucking A/T.
  
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #18 - May 19th, 2019 at 12:42am
 
Captain Sim wrote on May 18th, 2019 at 8:43pm:
Meanwhile this is a hot fix of the stucking A/T.


A little confused about this hotfix.  When I ran it (v.0301)I got a message back from the installer that my base installer was not the latest and that I should get the latest from the extended download service.  When I did that it downloaded version v.0400. Do I still need to run the hotfix for the stuck AT fix? Or is it already included on v.0400?

Thanks
  
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Markoz
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #19 - May 19th, 2019 at 2:59am
 
The same thing that happened to you, happened to me, so I just installed v0.4, and did a short test flight. The aircraft did not overspeed on reaching cruise altitude.

Note. This was a short, low altitude (FL200) test, and a longer higher altitude test will be done to verify that it really is fixed without installing the 0301 hotfix.
  

Mark Fletcher



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Fly from Portland
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #20 - May 19th, 2019 at 4:03am
 
The plane is more stable now but have you noticed the herky jerky motion of the yoke in autopilot,  when changing course it is still a bit unstable but does straighten itself out eventually.
  

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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #21 - May 19th, 2019 at 9:06pm
 
jalbino59 wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 12:42am:
Do I still need to run the hotfix for the stuck AT fix? Or is it already included on v.0400?

Yes, hotfix v.0301 is included in v.0400
  

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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #22 - May 19th, 2019 at 11:25pm
 
EY wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 9:06pm:
jalbino59 wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 12:42am:
Do I still need to run the hotfix for the stuck AT fix? Or is it already included on v.0400?

Yes, hotfix v.0301 is included in v.0400

Great thanks for clearing that up.
  
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DV006
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #23 - May 19th, 2019 at 11:49pm
 
I'm sorry, but I could be blind.  I could not find a link for this update v0.0400.  Could someone lead the blind to that link?  Thanks.
  
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #24 - May 20th, 2019 at 2:54am
 
DV006 wrote on May 19th, 2019 at 11:49pm:
I'm sorry, but I could be blind.  I could not find a link for this update v0.0400.  Could someone lead the blind to that link?  Thanks.


It was available on your CS website account under extended download service. You need to login, click on your name, click on the corresponding purchase, make note of the order number and click on Extended Download Service, enter your order number and the capcha info click submit, then finally download the new installer.  Shocked
  
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DV006
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #25 - May 20th, 2019 at 3:40pm
 
Thanks.  I found that update and downloaded it.  But in trying to install it, I received an error message.  It goes to the captain sim site, and the following message appears. [b][Oops! That page can’t be found.
It looks like nothing was found at this location. Maybe try a search?/b]  what could I be doing wrong?
  
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Captain Sim
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #26 - May 20th, 2019 at 3:53pm
 
DV006 wrote on May 20th, 2019 at 3:40pm:
I found that update and downloaded it.  But in trying to install it, I received an error message. 

You don't need the 0.4 via EDS.
If you want to try the A/T fix then all you need is this https://www.captainsim.org/forum/csf.pl?num=1556463641/17#17

  
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #27 - May 20th, 2019 at 4:47pm
 
I downloaded the 0.301 file and tried to install it and got the following message:

Major version of the expansion is outdated  1. Login to your profile 2. Navigate: Product Name>Extended Download Service 3. Downloan and install current major version of the Expansion and 4. Install this update.  I am not sure what I have installed, but believe it to be the csy777_300exe.
  
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Captain Sim
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #28 - May 20th, 2019 at 7:21pm
 
DV006 wrote on May 20th, 2019 at 4:47pm:
Major version of the expansion is outdated  1. Login to your profile 2. Navigate: Product Name>Extended Download Service 3. Downloan and install current major version of the Expansion and 4. Install this update.  I am not sure what I have installed, but believe it to be the csy777_300exe.

Ignore #4 because from EDS you got the 0.4 which is newer than the 0.301.
  
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #29 - May 20th, 2019 at 10:37pm
 
Thank you very much for the explanation.  I uninstalled my previous versions of the 777-200 and the 777-4
300 and installed the .4 version of both and so far, the 777-300 is holding the authothrottle.  Very good.  Still have to test it on the 777-200, but assume it will work as that is the base pack for the 300 version.  Thank you very much for the turnaround for the fix on this.  One thing, however, and this is a small point, the 777-300 is holding at my designated altitude of 32000 feet, but the FMC is programmed for a mach speed of .833 and it is actually holding at .824.
  
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #30 - May 21st, 2019 at 2:57am
 
DV006 wrote on May 20th, 2019 at 10:37pm:
the 777-300 is holding at my designated altitude of 32000 feet, but the FMC is programmed for a mach speed of .833 and it is actually holding at .824.

Although I'm flying at FL370, I have the same problem - According to the FMC the 777-300 should be flying at M.833, but it's actually flying at M.822.
  

Mark Fletcher



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Av8ter
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Re: Stuck autothrottle and other feedback
Reply #31 - Mar 1st, 2020 at 6:55pm
 
Captain Sim wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 1:17pm:
DV006 wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 10:04pm:
I really do hope that Captain Sim will come up with a fix for the autothrottle problem

We are working on it.


Continue to have this problem, is there any fix, this whole thing still feels like a Beta release...
  
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Re: Stuck autothrottle
Reply #32 - Mar 2nd, 2020 at 1:08pm
 
Av8ter wrote on Mar 1st, 2020 at 6:55pm:
Continue to have this problem

https://www.captainsim.org/forum/csf.pl?num=1555000111
  
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