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Approach Awareness (Read 4140 times)

LOU Beta Team Offline 727,707,747,757,767= 40years of Boeings Posts: 1593 Location: Central PA, USA Joined: Mar 3^rd, 2010 Gender:	Approach Awareness Mar 10^th, 2015 at 6:30pm	Print Post
	This is a *TWA* training film from 1964. I sat through many of these old films during training. One of the things that made TWA training so good was the fact that all the crew members were trained to fly the same. It did not matter who you flew with the procedures were identical. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQlRJYhOwzg&sns=em As you watch the old film - which was made in the old TWA training center at 1307 Baltimore in Kansas City, MO - you might wonder why the pilots set the altimeters the way they did. *Any guesses?* Lou

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BrianG Full Member Offline Posts: 205 Joined: Mar 10^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Approach Awareness Reply #1 - Mar 11^th, 2015 at 2:09am	Print Post
	Lou, Thanks for the post. I very much enjoyed the video. As to the altimeter setting, I'll have to watch again to figure out why the altimeter was set the way it was ( unless you want to tell us now). Wouldn't you normally get the current altimeter before transition altitude and use that value while descending through 18,000? Seems they got the current alt. late in the approach. The 707 and 727 are still my favorite passenger jet AC of all time. Thanks again. Cheers, Brian


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Markoz CS Team Offline Posts: 12373 Location: Victoria, Australia Joined: Apr 24^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Approach Awareness Reply #2 - Mar 11^th, 2015 at 2:44am	Print Post
	LOU wrote on Mar 10^th, 2015 at 6:30pm: As you watch the old film - which was made in the old TWA training center at 1307 Baltimore in Kansas City, MO - you might wonder why the pilots set the altimeters the way they did. *Any guesses?* To make sure that the changes are working correctly and the needles are not sticking?

	Mark Fletcher PC: i7 10700K @3.8/5.1GHz \| 64GB DDR4 3200 \| 12GB RTX 4070 Super \| 32" LCD Monitor \| 1TB SSD & 2x2TB SSD \| Win 11 Pro - FSX/FSX-SE/P3D3/P3D4/P3D5/P3D6/MSFS2020 15.6" Gaming Laptop: i7 7700HQ \| 32GB DDR4 \| 6GB GTX 1060 \| 256GB SSD & 1TB HDD \| Win 10 Pro 64bit - FSX-SE/P3D4
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LOU Beta Team Offline 727,707,747,757,767= 40years of Boeings Posts: 1593 Location: Central PA, USA Joined: Mar 3^rd, 2010 Gender:	Re: Approach Awareness Reply #3 - Mar 11^th, 2015 at 5:01pm	Print Post
	The reason the altimeter is set the way it was in the old training film was to eliminate any slack in the linkage. You would go below the current setting by a small amount, then slowly come up to the current setting. Another interesting piece of trivia is that each barometric altimeter also had a thumper built into the rear of the instrument called an altimeter vibrator. The idea was that the vibrator would prevent the indicator from sticking. Here is a screen capture from the CS 757 overhead panel. The 707 panel was too worn out to read. Lou

	Processor: Intel Core i7-4770k @3.5Ghz Memory: 6Gb DDR3 1600mhz Video: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 Storage: 256Gb Samsung 840 Pro \| 120Gb OCZ Agility 3 \| WD Black 640Gb 7200rpm 55" Samsung LED - HDTV for monitor
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BrianG Full Member Offline Posts: 205 Joined: Mar 10^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Approach Awareness Reply #4 - Mar 12^th, 2015 at 1:25am	Print Post
	LOU wrote on Mar 11^th, 2015 at 5:01pm: The reason the altimeter is set the way it was in the old training film was to eliminate any slack in the linkage. You would go below the current setting by a small amount, then slowly come up to the current setting. Lou That would have been hard to guess but makes total sense if you know the fine points of how the instrument works. Don't want to hijack the thread but I've looked high and low for 707 performance data regarding EPR tables for climb. I've got EPR tables for T/O and cruise, but can't seem to find EPR for climb. Climb EPR data for the 727 is readily available but not the 707. Any help on this would be much appreciated. I even emailed Boeing. They referred me back to some generic 707 description site of theirs. Not what I'm looking for. You're my last hope. Cheers Brian and now back to the topic.


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Markoz CS Team Offline Posts: 12373 Location: Victoria, Australia Joined: Apr 24^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Approach Awareness Reply #5 - Mar 12^th, 2015 at 1:35am	Print Post
	BrianG wrote on Mar 12^th, 2015 at 1:25am: LOU wrote on Mar 11^th, 2015 at 5:01pm: The reason the altimeter is set the way it was in the old training film was to eliminate any slack in the linkage. You would go below the current setting by a small amount, then slowly come up to the current setting. Lou That would have been hard to guess but makes total sense if you know the fine points of how the instrument works. I would never have come up with the correct answer either, but I took my best shot. BrianG wrote on Mar 12^th, 2015 at 1:25am: Don't want to hijack the thread but I've looked high and low for 707 performance data regarding EPR tables for climb. I've got EPR tables for T/O and cruise, but can't seem to find EPR for climb. Climb EPR data for the 727 is readily available but not the 707. Any help on this would be much appreciated. I even emailed Boeing. They referred me back to some generic 707 description site of theirs. Not what I'm looking for. You're my last hope. Cheers Brian and now back to the topic. And if Lou answers the question, it will still be off topic! Sorry Brian, I couldn't resist the opportunity to say that. It's my warped sense of humour.

	Mark Fletcher PC: i7 10700K @3.8/5.1GHz \| 64GB DDR4 3200 \| 12GB RTX 4070 Super \| 32" LCD Monitor \| 1TB SSD & 2x2TB SSD \| Win 11 Pro - FSX/FSX-SE/P3D3/P3D4/P3D5/P3D6/MSFS2020 15.6" Gaming Laptop: i7 7700HQ \| 32GB DDR4 \| 6GB GTX 1060 \| 256GB SSD & 1TB HDD \| Win 10 Pro 64bit - FSX-SE/P3D4
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BrianG Full Member Offline Posts: 205 Joined: Mar 10^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Approach Awareness Reply #6 - Mar 12^th, 2015 at 1:48am	Print Post
	Hey Mark, You're absolutely right. I thought about that before I posted that last remark. Good catch on your part.


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