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Has anyone else noticed this? (Read 6036 times)
Markoz
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Has anyone else noticed this?
Aug 18th, 2013 at 5:21am
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I did a flight to Dubai (OMDB) in the Captain Sim 777 (and later I tried it in the CS 767). I had selected my STAR (DUBI6S) and Transition/Approach (LOVOL) for landing on RWY30R, so all was set. All was fine until I reached the final turn towards ULDOT, where the ILS/GS should have come alive, but didn't! There was nothing showing! I pressed APP and the Heading Indicator changed to 120 degrees and the 777 (and 767) turned away from the airport. I was puzzled at what was happening and so I ended up disengaging the AP and landing manually.

I started FS Approach Pro with the 777 all ready for the approach and started about 15 or 20 nm from RW30R, used the CDU to select RW30R as the ARR and proceeded to approach. As soon as I pressed LOC or APP, the heading Indicator switched to 120 and the 777 and 767 flew away from the airport.

So I opened (using notepad) the FSX\Captain_Sim\navigation\runways.db file from the Navigraph cycle 1308 and looked up OMDB runway 30R. This is what I found in regards to OMDB:

OMDB;3.00;110.10;25.264617;13123;55.350414;12L;122.0
OMDB;3.00;109.50;25.252828;14590;55.364370;12R;122.0
OMDB;3.00;111.30;25.235914;14590;55.394875;30L;302.0
OMDB;3.00;110.90;25.247683;13123;55.380950;30R;302.0

As you can see, the frequency for 30R is 110.9 and the heading is 302 degrees. So why was I doing a 180 degree turn every time I pressed LOC or APP? Here is why I believe it is happening:


Notice that in the FSX MAP (Airport Info for OMDB), runway 30R is listed as 109.50 @ 300o, whereas runway 12R is listed as 110.90 @ 120o!

So that appears to be the answer to the problem. To fix this, I have edited the runways.db to match the runways at Dubai as they are listed in FSX.Both the 777 and 767 fly it fine (they Autoland without any problems now). Here is how it looks after I modified it:

OMDB;3.00;110.10;25.264617;13123;55.350414;12L;122.0
OMDB;3.00;110.90;25.252828;14590;55.364370;12R;122.0
OMDB;3.00;111.30;25.235914;14590;55.394875;30L;302.0
OMDB;3.00;109.50;25.247683;13123;55.380950;30R;302.0

I checked the NavDataPro runways.db, and they are almost identical to the navigraph ones:

OMDB;3.00;110.10;25.264617;13123;55.350414;12L;121.8
OMDB;3.00;109.50;25.252828;14590;55.364369;12R;121.8
OMDB;3.00;111.30;25.235914;14590;55.394875;30L;301.8
OMDB;3.00;110.90;25.247683;13123;55.380950;30R;301.8

So I checked this out in the OTHER 737NG and it flew the ILS/GS (for runway 30L?) okay UNTIL about 2 or 3 miles from the runway threshold, then it started swaying left and right, I had to take control of the 737, then go around, reset the NAV Radios to 109.50 and so that it too landed fine on runway 30R!

So the question is this: Why is the navigation data matching what is most probably the real world data, but is not matching the info in FSX. It was easy enough to change the runways.db. But NOT so easy to change the OTHER's navigation data! But it looks like it can be done here:

DUBAI INTL              OMDB30L14590300 25.235914  55.394875111.3030000060
DUBAI INTL              OMDB30R13123300 25.247683  55.380950110.9030000031
DUBAI INTL              OMDB12R14590120 25.252828  55.364369109.5012000010
DUBAI INTL              OMDB12L13123120 25.264617  55.350414110.1012000010

I'll have to test it out to be sure.

How do those people flying on VATSIM (or similar online flying), get around this problem? Do they use runways 30L and 12L so they won't encounter any problems with the discrepancies?

I would be interested to find out if you others have encountered this problem at Dubai. Where else in FSX might this be happening? Shocked
  

Mark Fletcher



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CoolP
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Re: Has anyone else noticed this?
Reply #1 - Aug 18th, 2013 at 9:34am
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Which airport are you using, Mark? The default one, some updated freeware or the payware from FlyTampa? The latter being really good.  Smiley

I'm asking because it seems your current scenery runs on wrong or old frequencies. The rw ones are.
12L 120° 110.10
12R 120° 109.50
30L 300° 111.30
30R 300° 110.90
http://www.ae-ivao.net/charts/ae-charts/OMDB_Overview.pdf

Quote:
So the question is this: Why is the navigation data matching what is most probably the real world data, but is not matching the info in FSX.

This freeware says it has corrected navaids. Maybe it helps. http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php?searchid=13846024
  
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Markoz
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Re: Has anyone else noticed this?
Reply #2 - Aug 19th, 2013 at 5:18am
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CoolP wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 9:34am:
Which airport are you using, Mark? The default one, some updated freeware or the payware from FlyTampa? The latter being really good.  Smiley

I'm asking because it seems your current scenery runs on wrong or old frequencies. The rw ones are.
12L 120° 110.10
12R 120° 109.50
30L 300° 111.30
30R 300° 110.90
http://www.ae-ivao.net/charts/ae-charts/OMDB_Overview.pdf

Quote:
So the question is this: Why is the navigation data matching what is most probably the real world data, but is not matching the info in FSX.

This freeware says it has corrected navaids. Maybe it helps. http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php?searchid=13846024

Having to install something else to fix FSX. For now I might just stick to modifying the AIRAC files. Undecided
  

Mark Fletcher



PC: i7 10700K @3.8/5.1GHz | 64GB DDR4 3200 | 12GB RTX 4070 Super | 32" LCD Monitor | 1TB SSD & 2x2TB SSD | Win 11 Pro - FSX/FSX-SE/P3D3/P3D4/P3D5/P3D6/MSFS2020
15.6" Gaming Laptop: i7 7700HQ | 32GB DDR4 | 6GB GTX 1060 | 256GB SSD & 1TB HDD | Win 10 Pro 64bit - FSX-SE/P3D4
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CoolP
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Re: Has anyone else noticed this?
Reply #3 - Aug 19th, 2013 at 1:15pm
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Well, this happens at a lot of airports, most likely in P3D too. The base data is older than 2006 and the updated freeware or payware even offers more details and a corrected (current) layout. For example, if you try to land at FSX' Frankfurt (EDDF), it lacks a runway and the current freqs too. Plenty of examples but all of them can be fixed quite easily.

With editing the nav data, you actually break correct data to make it fit to outdated one. Wouldn't it be easier to fix the airport then? Also saves you from editing the nav data for every payware plane you have installed as their formats differ.

You can also fix the default airport itself by using the freeware ADE and just editing the nav freqs. Maybe that's sort of the middle ground in that scenario. As said, FSX default airports showing wrong data is pretty common from my experience.  Undecided Hence the praise for libraries and freeware devs.  Cheesy
  
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Fly from Portland
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Re: Has anyone else noticed this?
Reply #4 - Jan 7th, 2014 at 3:48am
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Has anybody noticed that rwy13R at KJFK does not have any ILS capability. It is over 14000ft long and the reverse heading does have it. Is this realistic, it is only for visual landings, fair weather only. Does anybody know if this is true at the actual airport?  Can not believe this long a runway would not have navigational aids like ILS. Undecided
  

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DAL191
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Re: Has anyone else noticed this?
Reply #5 - Jan 7th, 2014 at 5:17am
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Fly from Portland wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 3:48am:
Has anybody noticed that rwy13R at KJFK does not have any ILS capability. It is over 14000ft long and the reverse heading does have it. Is this realistic, it is only for visual landings, fair weather only. Does anybody know if this is true at the actual airport?  Can not believe this long a runway would not have navigational aids like ILS. Undecided

There are only two approaches to 13R at KJFK. Parkway Visual 13L/13R or or VOR/GPS 13L/13R. 13R is the only runway at KJFK that doesn't have ILS.  ATC avoids using 13L and 13R at KJFK unless the wind is strong and pretty much coming straight down the runway because when it is in use KLGA's airspace is screwed up. I knolw Coney climbs are not available.  Watch out for 22R because it is an offset ILS approach.

Michael Cubine
  

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Cappy
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Re: Has anyone else noticed this?
Reply #6 - Jan 8th, 2014 at 10:08am
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Charlier wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 10:32pm:
I don't know if this wil help you, but I update my default data Always with Navaids update.

For the payware aircraft I use Navigraph.

As I said I don't know if this is what you mean, I'm pretty new on this kind of things. I can't put the link in this messages but if you like it I wil send you the link in a PM. It's legal and free.

So a program called Navaid can update FSX frequencies?

  

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