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 25 Pro line :) (Read 13461 times)
windplayer
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Pro line :)
Apr 9th, 2013 at 9:55am
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Cmon guys! Make it a PRO line Smiley
Maybe 2 versions? Fun line + $ = Pro Line?
  
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AirCanadaGuy
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #1 - Apr 9th, 2013 at 11:21pm
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Agreed, but it's possible the full version will be a Pro Line. We hope  Grin
  


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Caribflyer
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #2 - Apr 11th, 2013 at 7:40pm
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At this point, having a long awaited aircraft such as the L1011 as a "fun line" is really a waste. This is the perfect opportunity for CS to have the first and only full simulation L1011 on the market and I hope CS doesn't waste that opportunity.

There is sufficient information on the L1011 to produce a top notch product
  


Marlon Carter
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Lee Park
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #3 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 2:57pm
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I'll only buy it if it is Pro-line
  

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Markoz
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #4 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 4:09pm
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If the L-1011 VC is going to be anything like the B-52 VC, then it will be great. But with more advanced systems, it would be awesome. Grin
  

Mark Fletcher



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R. Aranda S.
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #5 - Apr 13th, 2013 at 5:17am
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Captain Sim has made "Pro Line" 707, 727 and classic 737 and I don't know why, having such extensive experience and bases, are going to take their time producing a L-1011 as a Fun Line Product. Maybe too complicated or something? Maybe they already have some other projects behind to pull off to begin another Pro Line plane?

Anyway a big percent of the simmers around are unhappy as hell and will probably not satisfied with a Pro L-1011 even if it's good enough.

I support them as I always have and will certainly get the model when the base pack is out and if it convinces me of course. I'm not currently interested enough to buy the other people's L-1011, Captain Sim's exterior model is better, you can tell from a km, now let's see what they shall present to us when they're done.
  

R. Aranda S.

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Johan Nordqvist
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #6 - Apr 15th, 2013 at 3:29pm
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When I realised that it was Fun line, that's about when I made up my mind about whether to by it or not. I want to be able to operate a plane as closely as possible to the normal procedures. Being a fun line product, that will not be possible I suppose.

I also know that the posts made in this topic will to a certainty of 99.99999% not have any effect at all at the decision to make it a fun line product.

Johan Nordqvist
  

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Johan Nordqvist
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Pvjinflight
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #7 - Apr 15th, 2013 at 6:54pm
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R. Aranda S. wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 5:17am:
Captain Sim has made "Pro Line" 707, 727 and classic 737 and I don't know why, having such extensive experience and bases, are going to take their time producing a L-1011 as a Fun Line Product. Maybe too complicated or something?


I think it's because of direct lift control, a system totally unique for Tristar...

When flaps are set for landing it basically deploys spoilers, so when you want to increase descent rate and you push yoke forward a bit instead of pitch decreasing it makes spoilers to deploy more, resulting in higher descent rate. When you pull the yoke backwards it reduces amount of spoilers, thus makes your descent rate less.

Modeling this behavior properly would sure require a lot of complex custom code and system modeling, so I guess that's the reason for going with fun line with Tristar.
  

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Jettrader
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #8 - Apr 16th, 2013 at 4:31am
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Pvjinflight wrote on Apr 15th, 2013 at 6:54pm:
R. Aranda S. wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 5:17am:
Captain Sim has made "Pro Line" 707, 727 and classic 737 and I don't know why, having such extensive experience and bases, are going to take their time producing a L-1011 as a Fun Line Product. Maybe too complicated or something?


I think it's because of direct lift control, a system totally unique for Tristar...

When flaps are set for landing it basically deploys spoilers, so when you want to increase descent rate and you push yoke forward a bit instead of pitch decreasing it makes spoilers to deploy more, resulting in higher descent rate. When you pull the yoke backwards it reduces amount of spoilers, thus makes your descent rate less.

Modeling this behavior properly would sure require a lot of complex custom code and system modeling, so I guess that's the reason for going with fun line with Tristar.


and exactly this is a pitty!

DLC on the Tristar used spoilers and ailerons to control the lift during a glidepath descend. At Flaps 33 ailerons were set to a +7 upward-neutral position and spoilers were deployed to +11 neutral position. Any pitch input by the yoke was converted into a spoiler deflection, which would alter the ROD but keep the Pitch the same.

Actually to realise that in FSX one would have to "really" use the spoilers. The basic principle is easy, but I guess the devil is in the details and the fine tuning is really hard.

By the way, the system is not unique to the Tristar - It is also used on the Airbus A330/A340 in a similar way. Actually quite a funny story - so we heard in our ATPL class from our teacher who is an Ex-Tristar Flight Engineer: Airbus developed a whole new system that controls your descend path via the help of spoilers and also uses the ailerons to assist the flaps/descend. When the first Tristar Pilots got their type-rating on the A330 Airbus told them about the new and revolutionary system and they weren't that supprised. In fact, they already new such a system from their 70's Tristars! After discovering that, Airbus approached Lockheed and they realized they had developed something that already was in existance for several decades!

Later today, I will scan a few pages of the tristar book I have (it's in german only). It has a very detailed description of the Tristar-Systems, DLC and also some other parts that might be very intresting.
  
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Kapitan
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #9 - Apr 16th, 2013 at 12:44pm
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Markoz wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 4:09pm:
If the L-1011 VC is going to be anything like the B-52 VC, then it will be great. But with more advanced systems, it would be awesome. Grin


Markoz
I dont own the b52, what is it like? judging by the internal pics I didnt like the graphics.
  

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Kapitan
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #10 - Apr 16th, 2013 at 12:49pm
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All of you are hiting the Pro ...which I also endorse, it would be great.

I read some of you have bought the Just Flight L1011 and merged the cockpit into CS.

I ask those guys...Isnt JF also a fun line cockpit...I bet it is.

So are you complaining in the same strength to Just Flight or whoever the developpers are?

Lets face it...only CS and P ,M,D.G make realsitic sims.
I hope the L1011 is a pro but I would think it very difficult for this to happen since information on systems and real pilots available to give software support is practically unavailable.
  

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Jettrader
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #11 - Apr 16th, 2013 at 3:04pm
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Kapitan wrote on Apr 16th, 2013 at 12:49pm:
All of you are hiting the Pro ...which I also endorse, it would be great.

I read some of you have bought the Just Flight L1011 and merged the cockpit into CS.

I ask those guys...Isnt JF also a fun line cockpit...I bet it is.

So are you complaining in the same strength to Just Flight or whoever the developpers are?

Lets face it...only CS and P ,M,D.G make realsitic sims.
I hope the L1011 is a pro but I would think it very difficult for this to happen since information on systems and real pilots available to give software support is practically unavailable.


I disagree with some aspects of your comment: JustFlight has the reputation to serve the market of "light" aircrafts, which are easy to use. Of course their cockpit is not professional and this is where Captain Sim can score!

In terms of graphics CS is top notch - in terms of system modelling it is only partially realistic. Like you say: other and CS are the only developers making realistic sims -> I disagree.
I could name you alot of CS addons that appear to be realistic, but in fact are not!

Captain Sim has the chance to cover a niche on the market (L1011) that nobody has claimed so far. It's easy to fill, but would be great to fill with something professional. TriStar pilots nowadays are rare, but it's achieveable.

As said, one of my teachers is an ex-tristar Flight Engineer and he's currently providing me with alot of technical information on the L1011 (documents, charts etc). During our ATPL class we refer alot to the Tristar to demonstrate how system are connected and working. (Even into the small detail like how to adjust the generator frequency on the Tristar)
  
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Kapitan
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #12 - Apr 17th, 2013 at 1:06am
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Jettrader wrote on Apr 16th, 2013 at 3:04pm:
Kapitan wrote on Apr 16th, 2013 at 12:49pm:
All of you are hiting the Pro ...which I also endorse, it would be great.

I read some of you have bought the Just Flight L1011 and merged the cockpit into CS.

I ask those guys...Isnt JF also a fun line cockpit...I bet it is.

So are you complaining in the same strength to Just Flight or whoever the developpers are?

Lets face it...only CS and P ,M,D.G make realsitic sims.
I hope the L1011 is a pro but I would think it very difficult for this to happen since information on systems and real pilots available to give software support is practically unavailable.


I disagree with some aspects of your comment: JustFlight has the reputation to serve the market of "light" aircrafts, which are easy to use. Of course their cockpit is not professional and this is where Captain Sim can score!

In terms of graphics CS is top notch - in terms of system modelling it is only partially realistic. Like you say: other and CS are the only developers making realistic sims -> I disagree.
I could name you alot of CS addons that appear to be realistic, but in fact are not!

Captain Sim has the chance to cover a niche on the market (L1011) that nobody has claimed so far. It's easy to fill, but would be great to fill with something professional. TriStar pilots nowadays are rare, but it's achieveable.

As said, one of my teachers is an ex-tristar Flight Engineer and he's currently providing me with alot of technical information on the L1011 (documents, charts etc). During our ATPL class we refer alot to the Tristar to demonstrate how system are connected and working. (Even into the small detail like how to adjust the generator frequency on the Tristar)


Maybe I didnt clarify in detail. True the other is probably more realistic, but only because its line are modern current jets where they have all the necessary info available. CS does out of line classics, and in its line they are the most realistic, excluding a few like B52, Hercules and the other military.

Also dont forget that the other only turned out a pro with intense realism very recently, while when CS delivered its first airliner addon, the 727, this was back in ...what year? 2004 i think. By that time there were very few addons like this one and P/M/D/G didnt have a par addon.

The main difficulty when developping classics is that your market are veterans aging folks, a smaller market than the other, with many more difficulties to access a real machine in which to base itself, while the other has plenty of machines flying all over the world.

Modelling and dynamics, here a taste area, I believe there are so many variables non simulated or controlled that its a joke to say that some addon is realistic in this sense. I prefer a cockpit where all the switches work, to a plane with a basic cockpit and a better modelling air file.
  

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Pvjinflight
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #13 - Apr 17th, 2013 at 10:52am
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Kapitan wrote on Apr 16th, 2013 at 12:49pm:
All of you are hiting the Pro ...which I also endorse, it would be great.

I read some of you have bought the Just Flight L1011 and merged the cockpit into CS.

I ask those guys...Isnt JF also a fun line cockpit...I bet it is.

So are you complaining in the same strength to Just Flight or whoever the developpers are?

Lets face it...only CS and P ,M,D.G make realsitic sims.
I hope the L1011 is a pro but I would think it very difficult for this to happen since information on systems and real pilots available to give software support is practically unavailable.


Just because people are using JF VC merged with CS (as that's the best combination available right now) doesn't mean that they wouldn't rather have a complete system simulation.

"The main difficulty when developping classics is that your market are veterans aging folks, a smaller market than the other, with many more difficulties to access a real machine in which to base itself, while the other has plenty of machines flying all over the world."

Well I don't think the FS market for these addons is any older than market for more modern jetliners, though sure it's true that finding active pilots who can give feedback based on real world experience is kinda difficult with Tristar and other such old birds.
  

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Kapitan
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #14 - Apr 17th, 2013 at 11:36am
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Pvjinflight wrote on Apr 17th, 2013 at 10:52am:
[quote author=Kapitan link=1365501334/0#10 date=1366116550]All of Well I don't think the FS market for these addons is any older than market for more modern jetliners, though sure it's true that finding active pilots who can give feedback based on real world experience is kinda difficult with Tristar and other such old birds.


I meant its a smaller market, and most probably the average age of simmers from classics is higher than modern current glass cockpits.

All the teenagers from 12 to the young guys up to 30 will, today, think of an airplane as an Airbus or a 737ngx. That is their world, that is all they saw in their lives. They have no life experience to relate to classics.

Most of them dislike the analogue jets from the 60s and 70s, its not their first choice when buying an addon. When I was a teen, I hated the Junker JU52, or a DC6, these were outdated museum planes, I loved Caravelles, comets and 707s.

Today its the same thing. The Tristar wont atract the young ones in general, thus creating a smaller market. That is what I meant.
  

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