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 10 V-One Gauge for Boeing 707-300 Complete [NEW!] (Read 15251 times)
fsxpaul
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V-One Gauge for Boeing 707-300 Complete [NEW!]
Feb 2nd, 2013 at 10:20pm
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I've updated the B707 V-One gauge with more sounds and functions!

Now available in the Avsim library, search for: V-One Gauge for Boeing 707-300 Complete

List of features: New Items/Features in 'blue'.

• Twenty-Two call-outs sounds integrated into gauge (15 new call-outs).
• Take-off V-Speeds calculated for Flaps 14 with temperature and altitude adjustments.
Take-off speed bugs automatically set for: V1, VR, V2.
Flaps-up maneuvering speed (clean speed) bug set after flaps-up.
• Optimum altitude and optimum EPR (EPR calc for M.80) are continually calculated.
• Gross Weight overage will display in 'red' text. Tooltip indicates overweight value (LB/KG).
• Take-off trim calculated for current gross weight.
• Display units can be toggled between LB and KG (default LB).
• Outside Air Temperature can be toggle between Fahrenheit and Celsius.
• Resettable fuel use.
• Resettable flight timer.
Selectable Vref landing configurations, Vref40 (default) or Vref50.
Approach / landing speed bugs automatically set for: Vref, Vref + 5, Vref + 10.
• ZFW, Fuel, CG, Gross Weight and Barometric Pressure MSL (QNH) displayed.
'Barometer Set' call-out occurs when pressing keyboard letter 'B' (V-One gauge must be open).
Decision Height adjustment now on Data Card in hidden click-spot located on upper right corner.
Now installation to a single location will work for all variants.

  
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Mike67
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Re: V-One Gauge for Boeing 707-300 Complete [NEW!]
Reply #1 - Feb 5th, 2013 at 2:39pm
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Sir -

A brilliant piece of work!

I am a 707 freak and collected a great deal of performance data on most versions including the 720 and "straight pipe" versions.

Your data turns out to be very much in line with what I have, and the gauge/sound features work extremely well.

I say the same for your work on the other aircraft as well.
  

Hook Down&&Gear Down&&Flaps Down
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RobWilk
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Re: V-One Gauge for Boeing 707-300 Complete [NEW!]
Reply #2 - Feb 9th, 2013 at 6:07pm
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Thanks very much for this, Paul! I now have the complete set with the '27, '37 and your gauge for this one made me buy it just so I could use the gauge Wink
  

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CoolP
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Re: V-One Gauge for Boeing 707-300 Complete [NEW!]
Reply #3 - Feb 17th, 2013 at 8:24am
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Oops, I've missed the update on that one. Thanks again.  Smiley
  
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CoolP
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Re: V-One Gauge for Boeing 707-300 Complete [NEW!]
Reply #4 - Feb 24th, 2013 at 7:49am
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Adding a note. The readme speaks of.
Quote:
Aircraft.cfg file changes:
==========================

1. Under the [WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE] section, ensure the following:

reference_datum_position     =  0, 0, 0       
empty_weight_CG_position     =  9, 0, 0 

Now the default value is -9, 0, 0, so you could delete that '-' when it comes to the instructions. However, this seems to mix up the stab trim recommendation (and the flight model) a bit and e.g. returns trim values like 15.4.

By this, I'd say that sticking to the default value with the -9 seems appropriate. I could be misunderstanding something here, but only the default value ensured proper trim recommendations for me so far.
  
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BrianG
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Re: V-One Gauge for Boeing 707-300 Complete [NEW!]
Reply #5 - Mar 7th, 2013 at 8:29pm
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Thanks Paul. Everything works great.

Just for clarification, the EPR recommendation- is that value for cruise, rather than T/O and climb? If it is cruise, does anyone know where can I find an EPR data chart ( for the 707-300 ) which give EPR setting for T/O and climb while considering temp. and altitude. The CS manual only has V speeds, not EPR data.

Thanks-
  
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CoolP
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Re: V-One Gauge for Boeing 707-300 Complete [NEW!]
Reply #6 - Mar 8th, 2013 at 3:07pm
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BrianG wrote on Mar 7th, 2013 at 8:29pm:
Just for clarification, the EPR recommendation- is that value for cruise, rather than T/O and climb

You are right, the OPT value is for cruise. You can find the rw TO and CL values in a package over at Avsim. 707perf.zip by Matt Zagoren offers some docs which include the thrust tables.

I don't know if they relate perfectly to the sim's flight model, but you'll receive an overview for sure. If you use the TO value first and the 'rated thrust' one for the climb, you should be ok when it comes to the shortened rw docs.  Smiley
  
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BrianG
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Re: V-One Gauge for Boeing 707-300 Complete [NEW!]
Reply #7 - Mar 8th, 2013 at 4:32pm
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Thanks Cool P,
I did find EPR T/O and rated thrust settings in the docs you mentioned.
And to your point about the CG issue,  the setting that FSXPaul used (empty_weight_CG_position     = - 9, 0, 0 ) brought the CG  to the nose of the plane when empty, which seems a bit off. Loading the plane with fuel does bring the CG further aft,  but I can't bring the CG into the wing area with any type of fuel configuration (using -9,0,0). Using default values, the CG is slightly forward of the wing center, which seems better.
With the new settings,  once loaded with TOW around 220k, it did require flaps and trim though to get airborne, which seems realistic.  With the default value, it didn't matter if you were fully loaded, you never needed trim or flaps to get off the ground. That doesn't seem right. With the -9, 0,0 CG value, the 707 is quite a bit more difficult to land being the CG is so far forward. But as you said, the default CG makes the trim much more realistic.
I can't say whats right or wrong of course. Perhaps Lou can help out here. Or someone who's dug up some data to support this?
thanks,
Brian
  
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CoolP
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Re: V-One Gauge for Boeing 707-300 Complete [NEW!]
Reply #8 - Mar 9th, 2013 at 1:52pm
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I think the -9 value instead of the (+)9 could be a sort of typo. Reason is that the -9 value leads to trim recommendations not being achievable or just on the very edge to it like e.g. '15.0', while the default (+)9 value renders them correct.

The VC indicator may not be the best reference but that green band is the one showing a proper trim (range) for TO. Outside of it, the TO warning horn should sound when advancing the #3 thrust lever. And the mentioned '15.0' is well outside of it, hence my note. On another note. The CS707 1.3 warning horn is inop.  Undecided

Well, I could be totally wrong since those findings just arise from observation and I may even be using an improper payload layout. Funny thing is that I've actually missed that small minus sign all the time when reading the readme. It was just lately, with the new mod version, when I finally realized that it has to to be added when following the instructions one by one.  Embarrassed That's just to explain why I didn't chime in sooner.

In the end, there's a chance that both values are, somehow, wrong. The default one being too far aft forward and the correction then being an over-correction. So just read the note on the +/-9 value as a starting point for the tests you've ran. Thanks for that input by the way.
  
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BrianG
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Re: V-One Gauge for Boeing 707-300 Complete [NEW!]
Reply #9 - Mar 9th, 2013 at 4:37pm
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Interesting note. I looked at the CG on the Micheal2 mod for the 727-100. He has it at -8.5,0,0. And with that value the CG is just forward of center of the wing area, which is where the 707's CG is with the default (9,0,0). Of course they're two entirely different planes. But looking at RL EPR values for the 727, Micheal2 mod parallels the real word very closely, and does require flaps and trim for TO, whereas the 707, with the center of gravity in the same location gets airborne with no flaps or trim fully loaded (330k)
As mentioned, I guess the answer is to play around with it until you get something that seems real.  A real 707 pilot would be very helpful here. Maybe I'll call on Lou for this one.

Brian
  
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CoolP
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Re: V-One Gauge for Boeing 707-300 Complete [NEW!]
Reply #10 - Mar 9th, 2013 at 9:37pm
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To avoid mixups, we may stick to one plane model at a time and perhaps keep in mind that the FSX coordinates we are talking about always refer to a (fictional) reference point of the 3D model. Well, if I got that right. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526949.aspx#datumreferencepoint

There are a ton of factors within the aircraft and air files to allow for the setup of the actual flight model, so my focus on just receiving proper trim recommendations is just that. A focus. I think the current 707 FDE would allow for some more improvements to be honest. I could also think of Paul running into this or that limitation when setting up his gauge not aiming at improving the FDE but 'only' at allowing the users a nice and comfortable usage of the proper v speeds and things. Just pointing out that a future FDE mod like e.g. Michael2 did on the 727 would be very welcome.  Smiley I guess we agree.

Such a thing would also help to achieve the EPR readings from the rw docs but we both have to ask openly about how many folks really need/appreciate such details. You surely would, me too.  Cool
  
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BrianG
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Re: V-One Gauge for Boeing 707-300 Complete [NEW!]
Reply #11 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 2:19am
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Yes, I agree. For me, the type realism we've been discussing really enhances the experience and takes it to the next level. But after all, this is a game ( I keep forgetting that) and not a real life training simulator.
So for the majority of customers, what they get suffices I'm sure. BTW- thanks so much for the link you provided. That will be a great learning tool and clearly explains at least one piece of the puzzle.

Brian-
  
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