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 25 Overpowered? (Read 20321 times)
Markoz
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Re: Overpowered?
Reply #15 - Dec 16th, 2012 at 6:31pm
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Markoz wrote on Dec 16th, 2012 at 1:59am:
[TurbineEngineData]
fuel_flow_gain = 0.002                          //Gain on fuel flow
inlet_area = 9.6                               //Square Feet, engine nacelle inlet area //19.6
rated_N2_rpm = 29920                            //RPM, second stage compressor rated value
static_thrust = 17400                        //25000
afterburner_available = 0                       //Afterburner available?
reverser_available = 1                          //Thrust reverser available?
ThrustSpecificFuelConsumption = 0.385             //Thrust specific fuel consumption (Jets)
AfterBurnThrustSpecificFuelConsumption = 0      //TSFC with afterburn/reheat engaged

The values in the above quote are the settings for the 737-200ADV.

For the 737-100 this is what I use:

[TurbineEngineData]
fuel_flow_gain = 0.002                          //Gain on fuel flow
inlet_area = 9.6                               //Square Feet, engine nacelle inlet area //19.6
rated_N2_rpm = 29920                            //RPM, second stage compressor rated value
static_thrust = 14500                        //16000      23000
afterburner_available = 0                       //Afterburner available?
reverser_available = 1                          //Thrust reverser available?
ThrustSpecificFuelConsumption = 0.385             //Thrust specific fuel consumption (Jets)
AfterBurnThrustSpecificFuelConsumption = 0      //TSFC with afterburn/reheat engaged

So the poor 737-100 has trouble climbing higher than 32,000 but can get to 35,000 feet (it's service ceiling). I wouldn't want to try to get higher than that, it might not get there.

If I fly it at a maximum speed of about M0.78 (~465 - 480 knots GS), it would be hard pressed to exceed the maximum range of 1540nm. It consumed about 40-45% of the maximum fuel in 600nm (I do know that an awful lot of fuel was consumed in the takeoff and climbing phase), but I still wouldn't push for much more than 1200nm flight just be sure I won't run out o fuel, especially if I'm encountering strong head winds. Smiley
  

Mark Fletcher



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AirCanadaGuy
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Re: Overpowered?
Reply #16 - Dec 17th, 2012 at 3:31pm
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FSX paul's V-one gauge requires setting a reduced thrust value.

Everything seems much better now and the gauge is awesome! Cheesy
  
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AirCanadaGuy
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Re: Overpowered?
Reply #17 - Dec 18th, 2012 at 6:54pm
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Markoz wrote on Dec 16th, 2012 at 6:31pm:
Markoz wrote on Dec 16th, 2012 at 1:59am:
[TurbineEngineData]
fuel_flow_gain = 0.002                          //Gain on fuel flow
inlet_area = 9.6                               //Square Feet, engine nacelle inlet area //19.6
rated_N2_rpm = 29920                            //RPM, second stage compressor rated value
static_thrust = 17400                        //25000
afterburner_available = 0                       //Afterburner available?
reverser_available = 1                          //Thrust reverser available?
ThrustSpecificFuelConsumption = 0.385             //Thrust specific fuel consumption (Jets)
AfterBurnThrustSpecificFuelConsumption = 0      //TSFC with afterburn/reheat engaged

The values in the above quote are the settings for the 737-200ADV.

For the 737-100 this is what I use:

[TurbineEngineData]
fuel_flow_gain = 0.002                          //Gain on fuel flow
inlet_area = 9.6                               //Square Feet, engine nacelle inlet area //19.6
rated_N2_rpm = 29920                            //RPM, second stage compressor rated value
static_thrust = 14500                        //16000      23000
afterburner_available = 0                       //Afterburner available?
reverser_available = 1                          //Thrust reverser available?
ThrustSpecificFuelConsumption = 0.385             //Thrust specific fuel consumption (Jets)
AfterBurnThrustSpecificFuelConsumption = 0      //TSFC with afterburn/reheat engaged

So the poor 737-100 has trouble climbing higher than 32,000 but can get to 35,000 feet (it's service ceiling). I wouldn't want to try to get higher than that, it might not get there.

If I fly it at a maximum speed of about M0.78 (~465 - 480 knots GS), it would be hard pressed to exceed the maximum range of 1540nm. It consumed about 40-45% of the maximum fuel in 600nm (I do know that an awful lot of fuel was consumed in the takeoff and climbing phase), but I still wouldn't push for much more than 1200nm flight just be sure I won't run out o fuel, especially if I'm encountering strong head winds. Smiley


Does changing the inlet area affect anything with FSXpaul's v-one gauge?
  
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fsxpaul
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Re: Overpowered?
Reply #18 - Dec 19th, 2012 at 2:22am
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Quote:
Does changing the inlet area affect anything with FSXpaul's v-one gauge?


Yes, but not much.
I'm currently using inlet_area = 9.6 and static_thrust = 15650.

I've set my OptEprOffset to -0.020 in the V-One gauge XML.

You should use whatever settings seem to work best for you  Wink
  
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AirCanadaGuy
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Re: Overpowered?
Reply #19 - Dec 19th, 2012 at 10:32am
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Ok sounds good.
  
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boeing247
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Re: Overpowered?
Reply #20 - Dec 27th, 2012 at 7:41pm
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I've tried all the recommended mods, but I'm still way overpowered. Anything else that can be done?
  

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Christopher Low
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Re: Overpowered?
Reply #21 - Dec 29th, 2012 at 4:42pm
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You would have thought that something as simple as "the aircraft is way overpowered" would have been picked up during beta testing a long time ago...
  
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Markoz
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Re: Overpowered?
Reply #22 - Dec 30th, 2012 at 5:43am
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Christopher Low wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 4:42pm:
You would have thought that something as simple as "the aircraft is way overpowered" would have been picked up during beta testing a long time ago...

It wasn't as bad in v0.9. It changed dramatically in v1.0! Sad
  

Mark Fletcher



PC: i7 10700K @3.8/5.1GHz | 64GB DDR4 3200 | 12GB RTX 4070 Super | 32" LCD Monitor | 1TB SSD & 2x2TB SSD | Win 11 Pro - FSX/FSX-SE/P3D3/P3D4/P3D5/P3D6/MSFS2020
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bud7h7
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Re: Overpowered?
Reply #23 - Jan 3rd, 2013 at 1:09am
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boeing247 wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 7:41pm:
I've tried all the recommended mods, but I'm still way overpowered. Anything else that can be done?


I'm curious, do you normally fly short flights (light fuel load)? When I was doing FDE modifications I noticed fuel load makes a huge difference in power requirements and fuel burn. With a light fuel load (empty center tank) I can climb at 3000 fpm or more all the way up to about FL180.
  

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boeing247
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Re: Overpowered?
Reply #24 - Jan 3rd, 2013 at 6:12am
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bud7h7 wrote on Jan 3rd, 2013 at 1:09am:
boeing247 wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 7:41pm:
I've tried all the recommended mods, but I'm still way overpowered. Anything else that can be done?


I'm curious, do you normally fly short flights (light fuel load)? When I was doing FDE modifications I noticed fuel load makes a huge difference in power requirements and fuel burn. With a light fuel load (empty center tank) I can climb at 3000 fpm or more all the way up to about FL180.


I've only been flying short flights (empty center tank, right and left tanks each half-full), but I'm still getting way over 3000 fpm at all altitudes. I can maintain over 4000 FPM (often much more than 4000) with throttles at about 80-90%. I did some quick research on the 737-200, and apparently it did have a very good climb rate, but I can't imagine it was as high as the rate I'm managing.
  

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Markoz
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Re: Overpowered?
Reply #25 - Jan 3rd, 2013 at 9:52am
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I just flew a 4+ hour flight (about 1700nm) in the 737-200, so I started with full tanks. Although the initial climb to 10000 feet was done at about 4000 fpm, using full power, by the time I reached FL310, I was struggling to maintain 1000 fpm with an airspeed of about 240 KIAS or less. That was using the settings I mentioned above (regarding the inlet_area = 9.6 and the static_thrust = 17400). I wouldn't call it overpowered any more. Certainly not like it is when using inlet_area = 19.6 and the static_thrust = 25000. So I'm pretty happy with the performance now. It may not be exactly right, but it isn't too bad.
  

Mark Fletcher



PC: i7 10700K @3.8/5.1GHz | 64GB DDR4 3200 | 12GB RTX 4070 Super | 32" LCD Monitor | 1TB SSD & 2x2TB SSD | Win 11 Pro - FSX/FSX-SE/P3D3/P3D4/P3D5/P3D6/MSFS2020
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AirCanadaGuy
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Re: Overpowered?
Reply #26 - Jan 3rd, 2013 at 2:51pm
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I'm using static_thrust=15650 and that seems quite realistic. I can't climb over 3000 fpm above 10000'. By FL 320, it struggles a little to maintain 250 knots.
  
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mjl1966
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Re: Overpowered?
Reply #27 - Apr 18th, 2022 at 4:56am
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10 years later...  Try this:

rated_N2_rpm=12250

You will definitely no longer see rocket ship performance.  I loaded up to max TOW in ABQ in 20 degree C and it was a real struggle to get through the flap retraction.  Keeping thrust at mac continuous, the best she could do at 270 knots was 2K.  Bu the time I got to 2000, 1K was about it.

For the first time ever, my jet is actually UNDER powered.

I got the number here:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_JT8D

  
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Re: Overpowered?
Reply #28 - Apr 18th, 2022 at 4:57am
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mjl1966 wrote on Apr 18th, 2022 at 4:56am:
10 years later...  Try this:

rated_N2_rpm=12250

You will definitely no longer see rocket ship performance.  I loaded up to max TOW in ABQ in 20 degree C and it was a real struggle to get through the flap retraction.  Keeping thrust at mac continuous, the best she could do at 270 knots was 2K.  Bu the time I got to 20000, 1K was about it.

For the first time ever, my jet is actually UNDER powered.

I got the number here:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_JT8D


  
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Markoz
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Re: Overpowered?
Reply #29 - Apr 19th, 2022 at 3:06am
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Nice bit of info there, but I got the following engine thrust rating figures for the

737-100 @14,000 lb (62 kN)

737-200 @14,500–16,400 lb (64–73 kN)

from wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737#Specifications

I assume that the higher thrust rating is for the 737-200ADV.

Also, a search on google for the thrust rating of the 737-100 (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=b737-100+thrust+rating) came up with this:

How much thrust does a 737 engine have?

The engine chosen was the Pratt & Whitney JT8D-1 low-bypass ratio turbofan engine, delivering 14,500 lb (64 kN) thrust.


So that's 2,250 lb above your suggestion. If you're talking 737-200, then the difference is 5,150 lb (I found that 17,400 lb was the thrust rating for it (google search)), although that could be the 737-200ADV, and perhaps 16,400 lb is more relevant to the 737-200 (a difference of 4,150 lb above your suggestion). Wink
  

Mark Fletcher



PC: i7 10700K @3.8/5.1GHz | 64GB DDR4 3200 | 12GB RTX 4070 Super | 32" LCD Monitor | 1TB SSD & 2x2TB SSD | Win 11 Pro - FSX/FSX-SE/P3D3/P3D4/P3D5/P3D6/MSFS2020
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