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 25 FLIGHT MODEL (Read 133231 times)
Markoz
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Re: FLIGHT MODEL
Reply #165 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 1:41am
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tf51d wrote on Sep 1st, 2013 at 3:39pm:
That's my point the CS777 as does the 757/767 does flare late. At the FMC calculated approach speed (VREF+5 or half wind component if wind is greater than 10kts) She descends at about 600-700fpm (Normal) and it's not until 10-20ft from touchdown does the nose starts coming up and the VSI lower, and she touches down 300-400fpm. I have not found any setting that corrects this. Since the yoke is still connected, you could give her a little help and get the flare at the threshold and a smoother landing, but then that's not really an autoland. This has been an issue since the CS757.

In all honesty, I consider them to have no flare at all. The throttle retard about a second or two prior to the wheels touching the runway, so the nose does not rise at all. I always land at VREF+5+50% of WINDSPEED (i.e with VREF of 132KIAS in a 10 knot headwind I will set the speed to 142KIAS (132+5+5=142)). I do not see any flare at all, but the 777 touches the runway pretty smoothly. Although it's still a tad hard, it's not too bad at all.
Grin
  

Mark Fletcher



PC: i7 6700K @ 4.0GHz | Corsair H80i Liquid Cooling | 32GB DDR4 | 6GB GTX1060 Xtreme Gaming | 27" LCD Monitor | 1x2TB SSHD, 2x2TB HDD, 1x4TB HDD, 1x275GB SSD | Win 10 Pro 64 - FSX, FSX-SE, P3Dv3.4 & P3Dv4.2
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tf51d
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Re: FLIGHT MODEL
Reply #166 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 5:42am
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Markoz wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 1:41am:
In all honesty, I consider them to have no flare at all. The throttle retard about a second or two prior to the wheels touching the runway, so the nose does not rise at all. I always land at VREF+5+50% of WINDSPEED (i.e with VREF of 132KIAS in a 10 knot headwind I will set the speed to 142KIAS (132+5+5=142)). I do not see any flare at all, but the 777 touches the runway pretty smoothly. Although it's still a tad hard, it's not too bad at all.
Grin


Your right, I looked at one of my videos of the 767 on autoland and she descended at 600-700fpm, there was no visible flare, either perceptively or on the PFD, but the vertical speed reduced to 3-400fpm after thrust went to idle. at 20 ft. Must have been ground effect!! Still a rather hard landing,
  
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Saratoga
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Re: FLIGHT MODEL
Reply #167 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:07pm
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tf51d wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 5:42am:
Markoz wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 1:41am:
In all honesty, I consider them to have no flare at all. The throttle retard about a second or two prior to the wheels touching the runway, so the nose does not rise at all. I always land at VREF+5+50% of WINDSPEED (i.e with VREF of 132KIAS in a 10 knot headwind I will set the speed to 142KIAS (132+5+5=142)). I do not see any flare at all, but the 777 touches the runway pretty smoothly. Although it's still a tad hard, it's not too bad at all.
Grin


Your right, I looked at one of my videos of the 767 on autoland and she descended at 600-700fpm, there was no visible flare, either perceptively or on the PFD, but the vertical speed reduced to 3-400fpm after thrust went to idle. at 20 ft. Must have been ground effect!! Still a rather hard landing,

The CS777 1.2 has no flare. Watch the elevator. It does not move at all as the plane passes through 50 feet and the throttle retards.

Ben
  
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Blover
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Re: FLIGHT MODEL
Reply #168 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 7:38pm
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You are right, autoland has no flare over the runway. In theory the flare is done at the treshold, and AP takes her down to the runway.
I completed a flight today from Florida to Los Angeles.

At arrival, I let her autoland. - 4-500fpm
My main gears collapsed at touch down and the aircraft slid on the engine cowlings and the tail to a stop with the nose wheel off the runway. No fire and FSX did not considered that a crash.

I have my general setting to hard and all options to max.

I hit at 137, I expected the plane to bounce but the gears simply went into the wings. It is the first time my 200LR goes to maintenance.
No casualties that I am aware of.

So much for autoland ! VIVA manual landings

Raymond   Boeing or nothing
KFLL  South Florida

Sad

  
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alex75flight
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Re: FLIGHT MODEL
Reply #169 - Sep 5th, 2013 at 12:15am
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hi everyone today i bought the 777/f and when airbourne and with autopilot on it started jumpin left and right,but not all the time,but i had to put the autopilot on/off everytime and it was a pain in the ass but the strange thing is that before on the base pack 777 it never happend,can someone tell me whats wrong???thank you Angry Undecided
  
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Markoz
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Re: FLIGHT MODEL
Reply #170 - Sep 5th, 2013 at 2:14am
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alex75flight wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 12:15am:
hi everyone today i bought the 777/f and when airbourne and with autopilot on it started jumpin left and right,but not all the time,but i had to put the autopilot on/off everytime and it was a pain in the ass but the strange thing is that before on the base pack 777 it never happend,can someone tell me whats wrong???thank you Angry Undecided

In the aircraft.cfg for all models (CS_B777_PAX, CS_B777-200ER_GE, CS_B777-200ER_PW, CS_B777-200ER_RR, CS_B777-200LR and CS_B777F), change the [Custom Autopilot] settings from this:

[Custom Autopilot]
AP_Roll_speed=3.91
AP_Roll_window=5.7
AP_Roll_controlstep=2825


to this:

[Custom Autopilot]
AP_Roll_speed=4
AP_Roll_window=7
AP_Roll_controlstep=1500


See if that helps keep the 777 steadier for you.

You might want to try this setting by tf51d:
tf51d wrote on Aug 11th, 2013 at 2:35am:
The only modification I made to this is the "AP_Roll_Speed" from 4 to 3.80 which is the same value in the CS767. I find you get better tracking on ILS with this setting.
Which means you need to change it to this:

[Custom Autopilot]
AP_Roll_speed=3.80
AP_Roll_window=7
AP_Roll_controlstep=1500


I haven't tried it myself, but that's because the default settings work fine for me.
  

Mark Fletcher



PC: i7 6700K @ 4.0GHz | Corsair H80i Liquid Cooling | 32GB DDR4 | 6GB GTX1060 Xtreme Gaming | 27" LCD Monitor | 1x2TB SSHD, 2x2TB HDD, 1x4TB HDD, 1x275GB SSD | Win 10 Pro 64 - FSX, FSX-SE, P3Dv3.4 & P3Dv4.2
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alex75flight
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Re: FLIGHT MODEL
Reply #171 - Sep 5th, 2013 at 11:53am
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it worked...thand you,guys Grin
  
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Markoz
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Re: FLIGHT MODEL
Reply #172 - Sep 5th, 2013 at 2:42pm
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alex75flight wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 11:53am:
it worked...thand you,guys Grin

You're welcome. I'm glad it's working now. Wink Grin
  

Mark Fletcher



PC: i7 6700K @ 4.0GHz | Corsair H80i Liquid Cooling | 32GB DDR4 | 6GB GTX1060 Xtreme Gaming | 27" LCD Monitor | 1x2TB SSHD, 2x2TB HDD, 1x4TB HDD, 1x275GB SSD | Win 10 Pro 64 - FSX, FSX-SE, P3Dv3.4 & P3Dv4.2
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alex75flight
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Re: FLIGHT MODEL
Reply #173 - Sep 14th, 2013 at 7:50pm
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hi everyone,i have a big problem with the cs 777..when im getting near my destination and select the approach button the airplane starts speeding up(ex..if im at 180 kn. it starts rising to 260,and the same with altitude)and after it goes back down,but sometimes i dont get the gs cuz of that..can someone help me Sad
  
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Captain Sim 2
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Re: FLIGHT MODEL
Reply #174 - Dec 11th, 2013 at 5:12pm
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BEYOND THIS POINT PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU ARE ON  VERSION 1.3
  
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amahran
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Re: FLIGHT MODEL
Reply #175 - Feb 10th, 2014 at 1:39pm
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The aircraft needs an unusually high breakaway thrust and needs an unusually high thrust setting while taxiing; going back to idle stops the plane almost immediately.
I'm not sure if that's realistic, but I do know most aircraft taxi on idle thrust, 777's included.

EDIT: In fact, on some aircraft, if you load them too lightly, you'll have trouble trying to keep the aircraft from rolling away on idle (Like the 747, which can easily exceed safe taxi speed on idle thrust if loaded too lightly). CRJ's are also taxiied at times with one engine on idle reverse to cut idle thrust in half to prevent wear on the brakes while taxiing.
  
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Re: FLIGHT MODEL
Reply #176 - Jun 20th, 2014 at 7:31am
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BEYOND THIS POINT PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU ARE ON  VERSION 1.4
  
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Saratoga
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Re: FLIGHT MODEL
Reply #177 - Jun 29th, 2014 at 5:42am
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CS777-200LR 1.4 FSX

Did some flight testing on descent rates and spoilers today. Although the aircraft systems are greatly improved, it seems the basic flight dynamics are worse.

The FCTMs for the 200LR specify idle descent at 310kt of 2200 fpm in a clean configuration and 5300 fpm with full spoilers at 20,000 feet and below. Weight is not specified, but probably around 440,000 pounds (200K kg). This number is significantly different from 1.4.

FCTM = 2200 fpm (probably 440K pounds GW)

At MLW of 492,000 pounds I get the following descent rates in various versions when descending through 20,000 feet:
CS 1.4 = 3390 fpm
CS 1.3 = 2770 fpm
CS 1.2 = 2000 fpm
CS 1.0 = 2200 fpm
PG 1.0 = 2050 fpm

From my testing, the 1.2 version is the closest to being accurate at 20,000 and below.

Power off descent rates are a good way to test the flight model. Clearly 1.4 is not accurate. Why such a big change from 1.2? Furthermore the descent rate should decrease significantly as altitude decreases. 1.4 does change with altitude, but not enough according to the FCOM.

Additionally, the spoilers are simply not accurate, as I have been saying from the beginning. Currently I am using the 1.2 AIR file with the following modifications:
Drag Coefficient - Spoiler = 53 (default is 20 which is far too low for 1.2)
Lift - Spoilers = -0.09 (hard to determine precisely but this is probably close)
Pitch Moment - Spoilers = 0.01 (note that the original is -0.01; the 777 actually pitches up slightly with spoiler deployment so this number must be positive)

Would be great to see the flight model become more accurate just like the systems are improving.

Ben
  
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jjfri
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Re: FLIGHT MODEL
Reply #178 - Jun 29th, 2014 at 5:48am
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Hi Folks,
I just re-installed the T777 version 1.4

I have a 4engine panel, no FMC, just a GPS.
Is this normal for the Cap Sim T777 ?

Thanks,
Jfriz
  
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amahran
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Re: FLIGHT MODEL
Reply #179 - Jul 28th, 2014 at 2:58am
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On a landing roll (autobrakes 2), the aircraft seems to start yawing to the left (regardless of where the crosswind is coming from), almost going off the side of the runway.

It's pretty much uncontrollable until the plane reaches a low enough speed for nose wheel steering to matter.

This has happened on 3 out of 4 flights.

I might experiment with it for a while to find out what's causing it.
  
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