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 25 How to calculate fuel in FSX (Read 24834 times)
EdwardS
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Re: How to calculate fuel in FSX
Reply #15 - Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:20am
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So is that a yes or a no? I'm not sure how those answers relate to the question I asked.

EdwardS wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 2:39am:
Does anyone know if FSX actually takes into account the planes weight when figuring fuel burn?

  
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Markoz
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Re: How to calculate fuel in FSX
Reply #16 - Feb 24th, 2012 at 6:26am
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EdwardS wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 2:39am:
Does anyone know if FSX actually takes into account the planes weight when figuring fuel burn? For example if I burn off 2,000 pounds of fuel will my fuel burn over the next hour be less because the plane weighs less? I have never noticed FSX doing this.

The only thing that I have noticed with most (if not all) aircraft, is that as you burn fuel off, the aircraft gets lighter - so its speed increases.
So the fuel burn seems to remain the same, while the plane goes faster.

Mark
  

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windplayer
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Re: How to calculate fuel in FSX
Reply #17 - Feb 24th, 2012 at 10:09am
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EdwardS, YES. FSX takes into account weight of the aircraft. if you want to stay on one cruise FL and on fixed speed - then you'll have to decrease power with time, so you will burn less fuel. or you can climb slow to higher alt, and save even more fuel for cruise. or you can fly same power setting, but you'll fly faster and faster Smiley

BUT! all that relies to flight model, not Fuel Flow rate. If you have A\T - it'll adjust power and you'll get less FF, in 727,707s you gotta do it yourself. And FSX default fuel planner sucks for payware aircrafts anyway, it only gives good results with default, and close to default crafts. no matter how it calculates EFU - it good for default crafts, and they all way to powerfull and superfuel-efficient.

To calculate estimated fuel usage with respect to all that, you will need some tables\figures for specific aircraft.
the bad thing about it - it all comes to how precisely flight model is Smiley
  
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EdwardS
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Re: How to calculate fuel in FSX
Reply #18 - Feb 24th, 2012 at 2:45pm
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Ah, thank you very much. I wasn't sure that FSX was handling that aspect at all. So it is but from our limited resources plotting the affects of it is not really practical.
  
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LOU
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Re: How to calculate fuel in FSX
Reply #19 - Feb 24th, 2012 at 4:28pm
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When you move the throttle in all jets - 727, 707, 747 etc. you are sending a command to the FCU (fuel control unit) on the engine. In the older planes that was accomplished by a cable and push-rod arrangement. On the newer jets -except Airbus - the command is via wire (potentiometer) to the FCU. The result is the same. In the Airbus the command is sent to a computer first which decides what the engine does. That is not to say that the FCU does not make adjustments, it does, but the computer part of the "Bus" is more controlling.

EPR is the primary thrust setting instrument with N1 being secondary. The resulting FF can vary depending on the condition of the engine. A newer engine may have a lower FF just because it is tighter. Same with EGT. The newer engine could have a lower EGT for the same power since its just working better.

Jets are designed to work better at high altitudes and colder temps. In the old days the "straight pipe" non fan did great at high altitude, but was less stellar at lower altitudes. With the advent of the by-pass fan, low altitude performance was much better. Today, with the huge fans the efficiency of the power plants is at an all time high. A lot of thrust at low altitude and great performance at cruise altitude.

When you set cruise power, you must be at the correct speed when you set the EPR. If you are faster when you set the EPR, the engine is actually producing more power for the same EPR. Same is true if you are slower than proper cruise speed when set EPR the engine is not producing the correct value. Once the F/E would set cruise power, they would wait a bit for the engine to stabilize and then see how the speed is holding. If the speed held, then the F/E could take readings of all the engines and compare the condition of each engine. With the same EPR set in each engine, the N1 & N2 speeds along with EGT and FF would give a pretty good comparison of the engine to chart values.

Lou
  

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windplayer
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Re: How to calculate fuel in FSX
Reply #20 - Feb 24th, 2012 at 7:29pm
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Thanks Lou. That explains a lot! And the last paragraph is something that i couldnt even guess about. Its cool you hanging with us Smiley
  
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windplayer
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Re: How to calculate fuel in FSX
Reply #21 - Feb 24th, 2012 at 7:40pm
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EdwardS wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 2:45pm:
Ah, thank you very much. I wasn't sure that FSX was handling that aspect at all. So it is but from our limited resources plotting the affects of it is not really practical.


yep, BUT!!! There is another side.
Planning the flight, calculating EFU, required runway for TO, checklists, tables etc, - that is not required in FSX, youll can fun without it.
But if you want - you can fun with it. So thats for me most of the time Smiley

Thanks to this forum members we have precisely flying b727,  and tons of info how to fly it Smiley so digging all that kitchen gives more satisfaction after landing Wink

btw, CoolP said that  B707 fuel tables good for cs707. EPRs -not, but fuel can be planned by Boeing manual. Havent check it yet, but i got 707 waiting for right time Wink
  
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LOU
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Re: How to calculate fuel in FSX
Reply #22 - Feb 24th, 2012 at 8:54pm
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windplayer,

You are spot on!

First, this is a fun game/hobby. Please have fun and explore all the wonderful parts of flight. However, if as some folks have expressed, you want to dig into the nuts and bolts, that's where the Captain Sim planes excel in detail and depth. Sure, there are a few things that are not exactly like the real aircraft, but a lot of the bugs are just part of the FSX architecture.

Second, there are times I just fire up the computer and pick a plane and go fly. Other times I sit down and build a flight plan and make the weather bad, just to keep sharp. I can tell you I have hours of fun flying these planes and also chatting with all of you pilots out there.

Keep having fun!  Smiley

Lou
  

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EdwardS
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Re: How to calculate fuel in FSX
Reply #23 - Feb 24th, 2012 at 10:44pm
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Actually I have been flight simming for over two years now. I prefer to make it as accurate while still holding that there are limitations. Over the years I have flown many great payware craft such as the A319, A320, A321, 757, 737NGX, DC10, the list goes on. The only thing I was searching to do with this thread is flesh out fuel planning. Until this point I have, for the most part, depended on other sources for fuel calculations. I did not fully understand aspects such as bias, which doesn't apply to flight sim unless you are flying the 737NGX, supplemental fuel, the applications of crosswinds, tailwinds, and headwinds, et. el. So fun is always first and has been over the years. Not an issue at all but thank you for mentioning it. In hind sight I think I should have opened this thread in the general area since I was not asking about the 727 in specific.
  
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CoastalDriver
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Re: How to calculate fuel in FSX
Reply #24 - Feb 25th, 2012 at 12:45am
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Windplayer if it helps as newcomer, first thing is you cannot compare how you operate a piston engine say in a DC3 with a pure turbine engine they are very different beasts. A piston engine requires a fuel and air mixture be delivered inside the engine in precise amount due to the volume of the area taken up by the pistons, carburettors and fuel injection systems do this work. On a jet engine, fuel is sprayed into a big burner or several burner cans in the front mid section and pressure changes take care of the rest, low at the front high at the back and hey presto gas flows in that direction.

The levers on the pedestal for the engine in an aeroplane like the 727 or 7-7 are of two types the power or main levers simply control fuel flow like a tap the others control fuel like a thingy on a line does. The condition lever or fuel thingy lever lets fuel flow to the engine and shuts if off to stop thats all. The power levers control fuel flow, so they are in effect like a bunsen burner, push them forward more fuel more fire bigger burn more power and that is it, the essence of simplicity like the jet engine, fans at the front compress air in to where it is burnt ones at the back and they may be several convert the hot air resulting from the fuel burning into power or thrust out the back which is why there are two RPM or N gauges on the dash. REverse thrust is just a mechanical connection that means you bring the power levers back so the engines go to idle or low rpm, then moving them all the way back directs linkages which open up the reversing mechanisms vents or doors at the back of the engine to redirect the flow forward and as you pull back the levers they add more fuel and the engines power up to a maximum again but this time the air flow is directed forwards out of the back of the enigne. In a propeller aircraft reverse thrust is achieved by the propeller angles going into a negative pitch and then the engine powering up again.

So in short there is no mixture control in a jet engine as pressures from the outside air pressure, the inside pressures of the engine when burning and turning and the fuel nozzles delivering fuel handle all that so all you have to do to go is levers forward and stop levers back, it is that simple.

Hope this helps, performance planning is another subject all together and there are some good threads on this forum and the 707 forum about fuel settings and planning to help you out.
  
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windplayer
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Re: How to calculate fuel in FSX
Reply #25 - Feb 25th, 2012 at 12:35pm
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Thanks CoastalDriver. Now im gone to master 3 degree descend profile you talked about while ago Wink I usualy starting descend at FL*3 nm distance, but sometimes i arriving to target alt too early, sometimes a little late Smiley now i gonna learn how to stay on profile. that'll surely helps to save some fuel in the end.
  
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asanal
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Re: How to calculate fuel in FSX
Reply #26 - Feb 25th, 2012 at 4:42pm
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