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Where is the Top of Descent? (Read 9890 times)

whiggy Full Member Offline Posts: 36 Joined: Feb 13^th, 2011	Where is the Top of Descent? Dec 5^th, 2011 at 7:25pm	Print Post
	I have the problem, when I insert a STAR and modify some constraints, the T/D point is gone. I have this problem only with CS products, this occurs in no other addon.


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wims Full Member Offline Posts: 118 Joined: Jul 1^st, 2010	Re: Where is the Top of Descent? Reply #1 - Dec 5^th, 2011 at 9:08pm	Print Post
	Yes, I know. I have the same issue. Its a big problem. In v4.4 we could erase a waypoint, click cancel and the T/D calculation came back again. This method doesnt work in v4.6 I just mess around with altitude constraints far down on the arrival / approach. That usually gives me a T/D, at least after messing with it for a while


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Emily Henderson New Member Offline Posts: 1 Location: 8776 NW 18th Ct Pompano Beach, Joined: Dec 8^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Where is the Top of Descent? Reply #2 - Dec 8^th, 2011 at 10:42am	Print Post
	I tried to insert a STAR and modify some constraints as well.Getting the same problem.Do let me know if you get a solution.

	&&Power Supplies
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CoolP Senior Member Offline Posts: 2568 Joined: Jan 17^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Where is the Top of Descent? Reply #3 - Dec 8^th, 2011 at 5:38pm	Print Post
	Can you guys try to enter the STAR as soon as possible? Maybe even at the gate. It seems to make a difference if the FMC has some data to work with or if it gets it later. It shouldn't make a difference on the real planes (unless you've already passed the TOD a long time ago), but it could in the sim rendition.


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Markoz CS Team Offline Posts: 12373 Location: Victoria, Australia Joined: Apr 24^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Where is the Top of Descent? Reply #4 - Dec 9^th, 2011 at 3:34am	Print Post
	CoolP. I think you missed what the actual problem is. The problem is when you modify the Altitude or Speed in a STAR, not just putting the STAR into the route. I can make some changes to TRANS, but I don't normally make changes to the STAR. So I'm not encountering this problem myself. It sounds like the Speed and Altitude constraints contained in the STAR may differ from those on the approach plate(s) and so they are modifying them. Mark

	Mark Fletcher PC: i7 10700K @3.8/5.1GHz \| 64GB DDR4 3200 \| 12GB RTX 4070 Super \| 32" LCD Monitor \| 1TB SSD & 2x2TB SSD \| Win 11 Pro - FSX/FSX-SE/P3D3/P3D4/P3D5/P3D6/MSFS2020 15.6" Gaming Laptop: i7 7700HQ \| 32GB DDR4 \| 6GB GTX 1060 \| 256GB SSD & 1TB HDD \| Win 10 Pro 64bit - FSX-SE/P3D4
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CoolP Senior Member Offline Posts: 2568 Joined: Jan 17^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Where is the Top of Descent? Reply #5 - Dec 9^th, 2011 at 10:31am	Print Post
	Oops, right you are. He even states this in the first post, so I even fail to find an explanation now. � Lets get some coffee. � By the way, can you guys please stop posting the wrong questions to my answers. �


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Markoz CS Team Offline Posts: 12373 Location: Victoria, Australia Joined: Apr 24^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Where is the Top of Descent? Reply #6 - Dec 9^th, 2011 at 1:06pm	Print Post
	CoolP wrote on Dec 9^th, 2011 at 10:31am: By the way, can you guys please stop posting the wrong questions to my answers. �

	Mark Fletcher PC: i7 10700K @3.8/5.1GHz \| 64GB DDR4 3200 \| 12GB RTX 4070 Super \| 32" LCD Monitor \| 1TB SSD & 2x2TB SSD \| Win 11 Pro - FSX/FSX-SE/P3D3/P3D4/P3D5/P3D6/MSFS2020 15.6" Gaming Laptop: i7 7700HQ \| 32GB DDR4 \| 6GB GTX 1060 \| 256GB SSD & 1TB HDD \| Win 10 Pro 64bit - FSX-SE/P3D4
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theguz Full Member Offline Posts: 77 Location: So Cal Joined: Oct 15^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Where is the Top of Descent? Reply #7 - Dec 9^th, 2011 at 9:13pm	Print Post
	Sometimes the FMC just randomly reprograms itself. The speeds/altitudes change and the T/D is lost. At this point you might as well hit the ESC key because the flight is lost.

	Bob&&757-200&&767-300&&757-300&&777-200&&http://www.captainsim.com/user/dl/b757/752_users_banner.gif
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CoolP Senior Member Offline Posts: 2568 Joined: Jan 17^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Where is the Top of Descent? Reply #8 - Dec 9^th, 2011 at 10:48pm	Print Post
	Sounds reasonable, theguz. However, try to describe the circumstances as close as possible. Remember, the folks are working on a 777 too, so maybe it helps avoiding some things and understanding the ones on the current planes. To get rid of the 'need' to exit the flight, just use the descent calculations from the old school flying. It is a rough workaround only, no doubt, but it gives you an approach and, most likely, a happy landing in the end. The folks in the 707 and 727 always work that way, so it's not too uncommon.


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theguz Full Member Offline Posts: 77 Location: So Cal Joined: Oct 15^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Where is the Top of Descent? Reply #9 - Dec 10^th, 2011 at 2:31am	Print Post
	So today I'm flying from KSAN to KSFO. Things are looking good. I'm step climbing holding the ALT with the hold when I get to each waypoint. The VNAV is working well not overshooting the altitudes so I don't need to use the ALT HOLD much on ascend. I get a T/D and I start to descend again holding the altitude with the ALT button at each step. Then I resume VNAV at 20Kft but the bird does not want to descend. I'm not sure why. So now I have to take over with the ALT hold with the V/S and flying becomes a chore. So I'm not sure why the VNAV stopped descending. Was it because I was holding it at each step? Did it forget what it was doing? Do I need to just let it be? Help!

	Bob&&757-200&&767-300&&757-300&&777-200&&http://www.captainsim.com/user/dl/b757/752_users_banner.gif
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Markoz CS Team Offline Posts: 12373 Location: Victoria, Australia Joined: Apr 24^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Where is the Top of Descent? Reply #10 - Dec 10^th, 2011 at 6:13am	Print Post
	Hi theguz. I use VNAV all the way down. If there are altitude or speed constraints, I find that the 757 obeys them when using VNAV. The ones that create the problems (if at all) are the altitude constraints that have, for example, 17000A at the end of them (be at 17000 or Above at the waypoint. So why don't you let VNAV control the descent? I have found that it is more likely to exceed an altitude constraint during the climb phase than during the descent phase. Mark

	Mark Fletcher PC: i7 10700K @3.8/5.1GHz \| 64GB DDR4 3200 \| 12GB RTX 4070 Super \| 32" LCD Monitor \| 1TB SSD & 2x2TB SSD \| Win 11 Pro - FSX/FSX-SE/P3D3/P3D4/P3D5/P3D6/MSFS2020 15.6" Gaming Laptop: i7 7700HQ \| 32GB DDR4 \| 6GB GTX 1060 \| 256GB SSD & 1TB HDD \| Win 10 Pro 64bit - FSX-SE/P3D4
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theguz Full Member Offline Posts: 77 Location: So Cal Joined: Oct 15^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Where is the Top of Descent? Reply #11 - Dec 10^th, 2011 at 7:50pm	Print Post
	You would think that holding ALT at each step descend would not cause a problem for the VNAV but whatever. Next flight I can adjust my ALT HOLD to zero and let the VNAV do all the vertical flying until glideslope intersection. The VNAV is a little erratic on the way down, sometimes it will overshoot and then climb for a bit which causes me a small amount of panic ("why are we climbing!?"). It often times will reach the waypoint altitude prior to the waypoint again causing me to scratch my head. I'm not using the 8000A designators anymore since they are ambiguous. I hope to become a better flyer.

	Bob&&757-200&&767-300&&757-300&&777-200&&http://www.captainsim.com/user/dl/b757/752_users_banner.gif
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