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 25 Paris Air Show Question (Read 29205 times)
CoolP
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Re: Paris Air Show Question
Reply #30 - Jun 29th, 2011 at 3:53pm
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LOU wrote on Jun 29th, 2011 at 2:11pm:
Sure CoolP, I would love to fly this plane, apart from the glass it is a well thought out plane

Absolutely.

I think I can spot some wipers on that pic too.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Boeing/Boeing-787-8-Dreamliner/1940322/L/
But I guess until they've found a way to remove dirt and all sorts of "overlay" in a purely electronic or chemical way, they will keep the ol' wipers. The automotive devs hate them too, but haven't got around the downsides of some alternative techniques so far. They've changed the movement here and there, that's all.
So you are mainly driving some rubber over a glass screen, hoping for the wind to push the rubber on that screen to allow some sort of cleaning. If you're not so lucky, you get more mess than before.  Grin

That's a thing we already saw at the first windscreens in history. Brakes every sale related conversation, huh?  Grin


Oh, I almost missed Peter's "analysis" of aviation incidents. Well, opinions a free, aren't they?
But if the main conclusion is that 'crews are so full of themselves' from a guy just watching the pictures (as we all do), you may not only sense some bias.  Tongue

Peter, just for the protocol. There aren't any "wingtip cameras" on the A380 and if the crews would really adhere to your brilliant observations, why are they flying around since years then, without any CRJs or buildings getting harmed until summer 2011?  Wink
Quote:
Thats my two-cents.

You name it.  Smiley

Nice insights on break-even numbers, new model techs or any other details, but I really doubt that you have access to any more things than the ones in the press room, especially when talking about both competing manufactures at the same time.
So feel free to guess, assume, suspect and, not to forget, laugh, like other guys are doing it. But don't make yourself more of a knowing guy than others around.
Those are my .. 3 Cents.  Cool
Edited. Thanks for adding the last sentence. Makes your assumptions much better to read. Smiley

Always feel free to add something useful to the discussion, but if you just enter to give a pure "Boeing up" and clear "Airbus does it wrong" (even regarding their crews in general) "insight", it may not be as useful and convincing as you think. Just sayin'.
  
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701151
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Re: Paris Air Show Question
Reply #31 - Jun 29th, 2011 at 4:16pm
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Huh, I had been informed by an Airbus pilot that the A380 had wingtip cameras, I guess Airbus said that once, and didn't pull through. As for the A380 incidents, the Air France crew was taxxing too fast, and didn't pay attention; its the pilot's responsibility to make sure his aircraft is safe, if part of his plane contacts something on the ground, that is stationary in these cases, he is at fault. As for the Airbus incident at Paris Air Show, hitting a building like that is unacceptable. The pilot needs to make sure his aircraft is safe, and must see to it that his route of taxxing is acceptable for the aircraft he's flying, and must make the necissary arrangements for the safety of his plane and passengers. That wing, once the wingtip has been torn off, looks like he clipped it with about 15ft of wing, and should have seen the impact coming, its unacceptable. And its true that many pilots like showing off the A380 factor, and its okay, as long as it doesn't get in the way of their piloting skill. As for Airbus being full of themselves, yes the are. They have the largest commercial airliner, an all fly-by-wire lineup, and all these things, so they're full of themselves. Boeing guys were proud with what they got, they don't have an all fly-by-wire fleet, they develop aircraft with their own money, and get stuff done without government subsidies and if anyone, Boeing should be full of themselves with all they've done on their own. Airbus could never have made the A380 without subsidies, or follow it with the A350, or even afford to have created the A320 the way they did.
  

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CoolP
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Re: Paris Air Show Question
Reply #32 - Jun 29th, 2011 at 4:25pm
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Frankly, I can only see one guy around "being full of himself" so far.

And since the new tech birds from Boeing actually come with a full FBW setup while the refined and older ones are of course stuck at the gear&pulley tech (which isn't bad at all, but doesn't represent current and weight saving tech), I also wonder on which fact basis you are working.
Do you think that any new Boeing design will come without FBW?

They even took the rather expensive way of also including some of this stuff in the only refined 747-8. The full FBW would have been a full redesign, which is much too expensive to achieve when you are watching the sales expectations and the "win" margins.
Since also having the type rating in mind, the 747-8 remained "old" (equalling in lower type rating efforts necessary when coming from the 747-400), while the newer 777 and 787 concept did not have to keep that status.

The "full of themselves" thingy is fully left to your observation of course. If you think that any of the marketing guys in the business (which includes all devs) wears a white shirt with no stains on it, you are free to think this rather short sighted way (which is my impression) of course.
I actually don't expect a frequent Boeing press only reader to think in any other way. If that's a charming character trait? I don't know.

And, regarding your Boeing press room dependency, this paragraph of yours may show what I'm talking about.
Quote:
they develop aircraft with their own money, and get stuff done without government subsidies and if anyone, Boeing should be full of themselves with all they've done on their own. Airbus could never have made the A380 without subsidies, or follow it with the A350, or even afford to have created the A320 the way they did.

I suggest you'd sit back, take some aviation history lessons, fill in quite some politics and then rethink what Boeing tells the world about their competitor's policy.

I really doubt that you would go ask Microsoft about Apple or Oracle about SAP, so your sticking to biased "news" sources may actually show the very downside of your arguments.  Cool
If you think that there's one good player in the whole big money business of e. g. aviation you are more part of the problem than of any constructive solution in my eyes.

And as I told you before (seems you don't want to listen or just check my words), the Boeing against Airbus subsidies case is running since exactly that time since Boeing realized that the "minor distraction" from the European side actually eats up market numbers.
Talking about decades there and I think that only the "pro" parts are written in that press room of yours. The thing even goes back to the pre Concorde era and you can be very sure that my knowledge there consists more than just some fancy press words.
So maybe you consider at least some evolution on your main sources. Maybe not, it's up to you.  Smiley

I appreciate your comments, but, as you see, wrong facts usually force some counteracting motion from my side. Sorry for that.
  
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Re: Paris Air Show Question
Reply #33 - Jun 29th, 2011 at 4:40pm
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And those camera spots. They have something on the tail, to allow a "safe taxi" (that's Airbus press room text).  Grin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vbFjGko59c
http://www.flickr.com/photos/theorem/2736254754/
There's also something around the gear area I guess, but their wingtips aren't discretely monitored at all. Maybe a thing to come?

The tail cam was available at the A340-600 before and could be included in some retrofit package too, for other models. I don't know if that's already available though.
Since the passengers can normally access these views too, it's at least entertaining.
As you saw, the thing is so ugly and big, it actually makes room.  Grin


But, question to active airline pilots. Could you actually estimate the room for your large wings when it comes down to the last 2 or 3 meters? Where not talking Cessna ratios here.
I mean, the pilots aren't looking out of the side windows all the time, they mainly stick to the taxiway markings and check the ground charts before, where e. g. KJFK writes that some ways aren't sufficient for "Super" or a certain wingspan while others are.
This would mean, that an A380 on the centerline of that taxiway (all those two incidents happened on a straigh portion there, so they could well have been centered) while have enough room for its wings, as stated by the charts and cleared from ATC.

So if those ground charts tell you that you are clear and if the tower/ground guys state your taxiroute in the knowledge of your "bigness", you may not become the pilot which is stuck on the side view, but the normal one being alerted to stick to the centerline or not?
  
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LOU
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Re: Paris Air Show Question
Reply #34 - Jun 29th, 2011 at 4:45pm
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Attention MARK - do not look at this post!  Wink



Well, it is once again making the news.  Undecided


Oh oh... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f57NtSAHtyo&feature=player_embedded#

Lou

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Re: Paris Air Show Question
Reply #35 - Jun 29th, 2011 at 4:49pm
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I remember American Airlines had a cockpit cam that passengers could look at the cockpit during takeoff and landing. One day the pilots had to do a high speed abort. A lot of passengers had to do extensive laundry checks when the plane came to zero motion. Yup, that was the end of the cockpit cam!  Grin
  

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Re: Paris Air Show Question
Reply #36 - Jun 29th, 2011 at 5:11pm
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Quote:
Superjumbo Damages Tires on Landing

Tires blow because they are 'so full of themselves'.  Grin So Peter was right! Gosh.  Tongue
  
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Re: Paris Air Show Question
Reply #37 - Jun 29th, 2011 at 9:13pm
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Grin Grin Grin Grin
  

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