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 10 Airline Trivia for Y'all (Read 9969 times)
701151
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Airline Trivia for Y'all
May 14th, 2011 at 5:35pm
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Here' the first trivia question for you (more to come).

Most airlines (okay all but one of them) have their aircraft pushed back by tugs. However, for the longest time, American Airlines would use reversers to back planes out of the gates. Why did American do this?
(Lou probably knows so don't answer Lou!)
  

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nzaviationrules
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Re: Airline Trivia for Y'all
Reply #1 - May 16th, 2011 at 4:01am
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Ok,

Is it a) It eliminated the need for a tug and operator to be stationed at the gate, meaning that the airline could save time by starting engines on the gate?
Or b) Because they felt like blowing out a few windows in the terminal and blaming it on Delta Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Also, while I don't know exactly why they did it, I do know that Northwest and I think United Huh Huh did it as well, among others.

Cheers,
Joe. Smiley Smiley
  
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Re: Airline Trivia for Y'all
Reply #2 - May 16th, 2011 at 4:04am
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No to both. Anyone else?
  

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Re: Airline Trivia for Y'all
Reply #3 - May 16th, 2011 at 6:40am
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probably it was/is due to cost saving.
  

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Re: Airline Trivia for Y'all
Reply #4 - May 16th, 2011 at 6:56am
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Because they were the last to move to modern jet aircraft?
  

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Re: Airline Trivia for Y'all
Reply #5 - May 16th, 2011 at 12:42pm
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Would it be to minimize the time during which the aircraft must remain parked at the gate (turnaround time)?

If so, I think this procedure was limited to aircrafts having aft fuselage mounted engines, like MD-80 and B-727, to reduce Foreign Object Damage (FOD) risk.
  

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L1011; B777-200/F; B777-200/F (LR); MD-11/F;B737-600/700/800/900NG; B767-300/200/F/KC ; B757-300/200/F ; C130 X-perience All-In-One; B707-300/300C; B727-100/200; B737-200/200ADV; WX Radar
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Re: Airline Trivia for Y'all
Reply #6 - May 16th, 2011 at 12:43pm
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No and no.

Okay, here's the answer.

The airline's ground crews were going on strike, and thought there jobs were secure because they need ground crew. So, American decided to show them, we can get out of the gates without crew, we don't need you! So they used reversers to back out.

However, using reversers to back out isn't teh greatest idea...
  

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Re: Airline Trivia for Y'all
Reply #7 - May 16th, 2011 at 1:01pm
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Uhu, just a ground crew strike. Huh

pj747, don't you sleep? What time is it there? 6 AM?
  

My fleet (CS and from others developers):

L1011; B777-200/F; B777-200/F (LR); MD-11/F;B737-600/700/800/900NG; B767-300/200/F/KC ; B757-300/200/F ; C130 X-perience All-In-One; B707-300/300C; B727-100/200; B737-200/200ADV; WX Radar
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Re: Airline Trivia for Y'all
Reply #8 - May 16th, 2011 at 1:02pm
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It is 6am on PST. I always wake at about 5:15
  

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LOU
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Re: Airline Trivia for Y'all
Reply #9 - May 16th, 2011 at 3:27pm
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I'm not sure where you got your information Peter, but several airlines used the power back procedure as a time saving step. You still needed a ground crew to marshal the plane and keep an eye on the clearances around the plane. TWA used the power back for a while with the MD-80 and the 727. It worked OK if the ramp was level and the area clear of goodies to suck up into the engine. The only thing the power back procedure eliminated was the tug and the tow bar. You still needed at least 3 ground people for the power back.

The restrictions were many, including all engines running, all EPR gauges working, no snow or ice on the ramp, etc. It did save a little time, but the fuel burn won out over time and it was stopped. At TWA and a few other airlines, single engine taxi was the norm to save fuel. When TWA was absorbed into American in 2001, we were told to start all engines for taxi. After a while we were able to show the management at American that using TWA fuel saving procedures could save them over a billion dollars a year in fuel costs.

Lou
  

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Re: Airline Trivia for Y'all
Reply #10 - May 16th, 2011 at 4:11pm
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I would like to do some more powerbacks or single engine taxis in FSX but I think that too high ground friction variable prevents me from doing it on normal and not tweaked planes.

If you e. g. want to commence taxi roll on some planes with only one engine running, you either end up doing circles (do them fast enough and you produce lift  Grin) or nothing moves at all.
Powerbacks are often enough the same thing since the high friction prevents that the plane moves backwards.
It works here and there though, but not always, depending on the plane.

And, just in case, if somebody is searching that baggage cart, it's in that #1 engine of the DC10.  Cheesy
  
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Re: Airline Trivia for Y'all
Reply #11 - May 16th, 2011 at 4:25pm
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CoolP wrote on May 16th, 2011 at 4:11pm:
...And, just in case, if somebody is searching that baggage cart, it's in that #1 engine of the DC10.  Cheesy


Like that?



OUCH. Shocked
  

My fleet (CS and from others developers):

L1011; B777-200/F; B777-200/F (LR); MD-11/F;B737-600/700/800/900NG; B767-300/200/F/KC ; B757-300/200/F ; C130 X-perience All-In-One; B707-300/300C; B727-100/200; B737-200/200ADV; WX Radar
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Re: Airline Trivia for Y'all
Reply #12 - May 16th, 2011 at 4:43pm
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Yes, there it is.  Grin
'How to load a plane without opening the cargo doors.'

We had that one before, but it's always nice to know about the personnel which is able to shut down an engine.
-Captain
-FO
-FE
-Baggage Cart Driver

So that above picture just shows some successful crew resource management while taking care of the "outboard cargo hold".
I've heard that those spots are the most expensive cargo holds on the planet.  Shocked
  
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Re: Airline Trivia for Y'all
Reply #13 - May 16th, 2011 at 5:23pm
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I watched a DC10 suck in a big tarp off the baggage cart one day in FLL. Man did that engine stop fast! Shocked

As for single engine taxi in FSX, there is not enough nose wheel weight to steer correctly. Just try doing a tight turn and you will see the nose wheel scrub. Going slower helps. I sometimes use just a touch of single brake to help in the turn. The 727 turned just fine, in real life, either direction using just the pod engine & nose wheel steering.

Lou
  

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Re: Airline Trivia for Y'all
Reply #14 - May 16th, 2011 at 8:26pm
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I've tried the single engine taxi on a small GA plane once, after my left one failed. After I had to stop, the operation became very difficult since the running engine turned that thing, but couldn't get it to roll. Rudder/nose wheel steering didn't help.

I've therefor invented the single engine vertical takeoff, by rotating fast enough to produce lift.
Didn't they mention that technique in some magazines lately?  Cool
But as said, I think FSX combines some flaws to make the single engine ground ops quite difficult, but I will try more often now.

Weren't there some airlines practising some full tug based taxi operations (Virgin Atlantic)? I also remember reading about some devices or future plans to integrate electric motors for ground ops, so that the APU can run for AC and electrics while the thing waits for taxi and takeoff clearances at KJFK, without the big round ones running.
  
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