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help need for making an ils landing (Read 4496 times)
rsperge
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help need for making an ils landing
Mar 13th, 2011 at 2:17pm
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before I never had a problem making an ils landing, usually I would put ils frequency number into nav 1 and nav2 as back up for examole 110.30 then wehn I am about the 25 to 20 miles out switch on the ils localizer,  slow plane speed down, and atc for examle would say make a 30 degree right hand turn 25 you are 29 miles out from the runway and go straight in. When I was about 10 miles out I out put on the  auto land switch and plane starts to go down. finally at about 5000 to 1,000ft I would take over and make the landing even if they plane was capable a making an auto land.

Now here is what is happening with the boeing 727 fsx which once again is a magnificant plane. I put the radio freqency in for the ils  for ex 110.50 nav1 and nav 2. I am using the autopilot By the way I use the heading swhitch to make turns rather than the turn and pitch controller. I now get the runway from atc  27l and put in the ils frquency numbers into the radio. I am on my way down slowing the craft. Now for example I am at 2,000 ft and this is where I start having problems. I click on the nsv loc switch and then finallly the auto gs, the plane starts to make a rapid decent, before I know it I am on the groud. By the way I am not using the flight director, maybe it has to do with the elevators or the altitude hold.

anyway I have read the manual and confused could someone give me a step by step procedure of what buttons should I touch to make this ils landing work, I dont need air speeds or when flaps go down, just
the procedure and I will be a happy camperfrom the time when I get the runway from atc.

thanks so much Ronny
  
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CoolP
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Re: help need for making an ils landing
Reply #1 - Mar 13th, 2011 at 4:01pm
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Hi, Ronny.

Here's a great post from Lou which can be found in the Knowledge Base of your profile. Maybe it helps, especially when using the Auto and Manual GS settings.
Lou was flying for TWA some time ago, now he goes for Captain Sim.  Smiley

#

Q: Autopilot operations on the CS-727 (by LOU)

A: I have Ver 2.4.

Just flew a bunch of ILS autopilot approaches to see how the CS-727 works. It is remarkable how this software simulates the real 727.

The key to a autopilot approach is not to hurry the poor autopilot. Remember this is 1950's state-of-the-art stuff so you can't expect 757, 767, or Airbus navigation or electronics. In the real plane you need to be set-up for the approach long before intercept...no different here!

Get all the radios set to the correct frequencies and set the course on the HDI to the ILS inbound course. You can get the correct freq. from the MAP drop-down. Just mouse over the ILS for the runway you plan to land on and the ILS information will appear.

As you fly in the traffic pattern have the autopilot in MANUAL or HEADING SELECT with ALTITUDE HOLD engaged. You can steer the plane in heading select and work yourself toward and intercept heading.

Here are some ball park or canned speeds to fly in the pattern:
Landing weight 125,000 to 130,000#
CLEAN - 230 KTS (not less than 200 KTS)
FLAPS 2 - Not more than 230 KTS not less than say 180 KTS
FLAPS 5 -between 180 and 160 KTS
FLAPS 15 around 150 KTS

As you get close to the ILS intercept be at FLAPS 15 and around 150 KTS. This will give you a better degrees per second turn rate thus giving the old autopilot a better chance of success. (the faster you go the slower the turn rate for a given bank angle)

You can select AUTO-G/S anytime during your vectoring for the intercept. The autopilot will remain in HEADING SELECT until LOC intercept.
You must remain BELOW the G/S and intercept the LOC first.

I set up the plane on an intercept heading of around 30 degrees to the localizer and on the initial approach altitude for the ILS selected and about 10 miles from the airport.

I set up the autopilot & F/D in altitude hold and heading select.

I select G/S AUTO on both the autopilot and the F/D. I am flying at 150 KTS with flaps 15 which is a normal setting for this phase of the approach.

Give the autopilot a chance to do it's thing by not rushing the approach.

As the LOC comes alive, the autopilot and F/D will captured the LOC and intercept. The heading select will trip off. With the LOC captured and the plane at 150 KTS and flaps 15 degrees I am now trucking towards the runway. As the G/S comes alive select gear down. One dot to G/S intercept select flaps 30 degrees and as the plane pitches down at G/S intercept adjust power to maintain speed. For these approaches I set the fuel load to 20,000 # and I used around 125 KTS on final.

Note on the F/D... To get "all angle capture" by the F/D you must first select HEADING SELECT and be in that mode for a few seconds before selecting G/S AUTO. The F/D will remain in heading select and can be controlled with the heading knob up until capture of the LOC. If you do not do this heading select first and go directly to G/S AUTO the F/D will program a 45 degree intercept. Not a big deal, but this will give you the option of guiding the plane to an intercept heading during vectoring.

Take note of the approach progress display group of lights on the instrument panel. They show the modes of the autopilot and the F/D as they go through the various arm & capture modes.

Make smooth and slow power changes and try to hold a constant speed. Every speed change will result in a pitch change and thus a trim change and the approach becomes unstable. I use FUEL FLOW to set power. At 30 degrees flap at this weight around 2,000 to 2,500 FF should be close. Adjust smoothly to stay on speed.

The 727 is not an auto land plane so you must disconnect before touchdown.

MANUAL G/S was only used:
When above the glide slope or on an extended (long) approach.

Once the ILS is captured by the autopilot a timer starts in the autopilot. As the aircraft gets closer to the runway the LOC and G/S get more sensitive. Boeing designed the glide slope to begin desensitization as the plane would get closer to the runway. In the 727-100 this was based on time. (the 727-200 used the radar altimeter - much better! Did not need to use this procedure.)

So, if you are on an extended (long) final and you have intercepted the ILS at a higher altitude the G/S would need to be re-sensitized during the approach. Here is how you do this: While in AUTO G/S and on LOC and G/S, you select a non radio mode - HEADING SELECT, then select MANUAL G/S quickly by pushing down on the switch and move to MANUAL G/S. Folks, this is way too detailed for this simulator. Just don't fly too long a final and intercept at a higher altitude. You can fly a 50 mile LOC (done sometines in KLAX or KLAS) just don't select AUTO G/S until 7 or 8 miles out.

I hope this information helps. It's a bit technical, but simmers like myself enjoy the detail. I find this CS-727 to be a blast and a lot of fond memories of the old plane which was always fun to fly.

Remember this is a "game" not a multi-million dollar simulator. I think it's a great simulation and it flys pretty much like the real thing which was not CAT-II. Give it a try and don't rush the approach and it will do a good job.

From: 727 Captain (FSX) / Tips and Tricks (QID 6061)
  
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boeing247
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Re: help need for making an ils landing
Reply #2 - Mar 13th, 2011 at 4:15pm
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Hey, CoolP. Thanks for the detailed explanation, and you're right, I've pretty much just skimmed the surface of some of the more detailed points of aviation. I'm trying to (if possible) learn how to use the aircraft systems and enjoy the aircraft at the same time.
  

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CoolP
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Re: help need for making an ils landing
Reply #3 - Mar 13th, 2011 at 4:33pm
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No problem, you will most likely enjoy learning very much and the steam gauged CS planes offer quite some room and fun then to test your skills then. If fail every second time, but I win on the rest.  Grin

Concerning the post, that's a copy from our "Boeing-Man" Lou, so I don't own the copyright there.  Cheesy But a great post from him there, that's for sure.
  
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