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Airmanship question (Read 3130 times)
ddo2
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Airmanship question
Mar 7th, 2011 at 3:50pm
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First, thanks for everyone who helped me with the flight mods.  That was easy.  (An FYI, for some reason Windows 7 thinks the .air files are installers.  Weird.) 

Anyway, I am finding this plane hard to land.  I'm not sure if its the oscillations of the yoke, or what, but let's say I'm at the FAF of an ILS.  I plan to fly this at 15 degrees of flaps and about 160.  I reduce power to capture the GS and it falls like a rock.  I add power then pitch up a little and it either shoots up or bleeds off airspeed.  Also weird is that sometimes when I'm going down at say 1000 FPM and add power, its first goes toe -1500 and then up to -500.  Eventually, I can usually get it somewhat stable and execute a landing, but I do find the power/pitch combinations to be extremely strange.  Sometimes, carrying what appears to be a lot of power into short final and prone to very quick deceleration. 

I get that the bird had its design issues, but I'm also a real world pilot who's flown dozens of different aircraft types (none turbine, though, although I am aware of turbine lag).  Any tips/pointers about smoothing this out? 

FYI:  I'm flying using FSX SP2, I've done the flight model mods and replaced the gauge file that suppoedly fixes the autopilot pitch control issue.  I do see some odd oscillations of the yoke from time to time but I can't tell if that's just the yoke or also the control surfaces. 

Thanks in advance.

Doug
  
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David Paul
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Re: Airmanship question
Reply #1 - Mar 7th, 2011 at 3:54pm
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I think that the "fix" for the autopilot pitch problem is not really a fix.  You trade one problem for another.   I had to buy and install Acceleration in order to get prototypical results from the autopilot pitch.  Otherwise, things were just too crazy with the wildly oscillating yoke.

  


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ddo2
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Re: Airmanship question
Reply #2 - Mar 7th, 2011 at 4:18pm
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Can you just 86 the "fix and not use the pitch control on the A/P?  It isn't ideal, but I would rather be able to hand fly it.
  
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David Paul
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Re: Airmanship question
Reply #3 - Mar 7th, 2011 at 5:00pm
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ddo2 wrote on Mar 7th, 2011 at 4:18pm:
Can you just 86 the "fix and not use the pitch control on the A/P?  It isn't ideal, but I would rather be able to hand fly it.  


That's pretty much what I did before getting Acceleration.  I would turn off the AP pitch, use the manual trim to get it where it needed to be for T/O and Climb or Approach/Landing, then turn the AP back on.  It would usually hold the current pitch fine once I had it settled in and stable.   Not ideal at all, as you say.   I prefer to have it work properly, so I spent the $$, and don't regret it.
  


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701151
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Re: Airmanship question
Reply #4 - Mar 8th, 2011 at 3:52am
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When on an ILS approach, when you're established on the localizer, the glideslope should take you at the right angle down to the airport on the VASI's. If 160 mean 160 knots you're way too slow for flaps 15 (or any flaps when not taking off) you should approach at about 180-190, and not get as low as V1 until within the decision height. You're too slow and the plane can't maintain altitude are the appropiate downward verticle speed because it can't obtain suffecient lift, when power is applied, the V/S goes more negative because the addition of power changes the pitch of the aircraft at the low speed, and you fall faster until dspeed is regained and it can keep the proper attitude.
  

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ddo2
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Re: Airmanship question
Reply #5 - Mar 8th, 2011 at 11:19pm
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701151 wrote on Mar 8th, 2011 at 3:52am:
If 160 mean 160 knots you're way too slow for flaps 15 (or any flaps when not taking off) you should approach at about 180-190, and not get as low as V1 until within the decision height.


Um, I'm not sure this is accurate.  In looking at documentation for the real plane, a reasonably loaded -100 (say 170-175K) at 15 degrees flap has a VREF of about 160.  Now, I could see flying with a gust factor to 170-5, but the concept of VREF is that you should be able to fly at that speed and I find it isn't terribly stable at that speed.  I'll try 180, but I don't think speed alone will fix things here. 
  
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701151
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Re: Airmanship question
Reply #6 - Mar 8th, 2011 at 11:53pm
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I dodn't fly the 727 personally, but my father did for Delta, and showed me exactly how to fly into Atlanta (he'd better know) and the correct speed for approach.
  

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ddo2
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Re: Airmanship question
Reply #7 - Mar 9th, 2011 at 1:35pm
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Great. but I am reading the manual.
  
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LOU
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Re: Airmanship question
Reply #8 - Mar 15th, 2011 at 2:45pm
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pj747 wrote...
When on an ILS approach, when you're established on the localizer, the glideslope should take you at the right angle down to the airport on the VASI's. If 160 mean 160 knots you're way too slow for flaps 15 (or any flaps when not taking off) you should approach at about 180-190, and not get as low as V1 until within the decision height. You're too slow and the plane can't maintain altitude are the appropiate downward verticle speed because it can't obtain suffecient lift, when power is applied, the V/S goes more negative because the addition of power changes the pitch of the aircraft at the low speed, and you fall faster until dspeed is regained and it can keep the proper attitude.


???????

The canned speed for flaps 15 is 160 KTS!

As you track the LOC in level flight at flaps 15 & gear up, you should be at 160 KTS.
As the G/S comes alive, go gear down.
When the G/S gets to one dot, select flaps 30 and make small power adjustments to maintain "bug" +10 KTS for the rest of the approach.

The faster you go on the G/S, the higher the rate of descent. Anything over 1,000 FPM in descent is too high. At proper approach speed on a 3 degree G/S you should be in the 700 to 800 FPM range. Normal G/S is 300 feet per mile. For every mile you fly you descend 300 feet. If the ILS has DME readout you can use this 300' per mile and it will work out just fine. In fact on a LOC only approach or a VOR or NDB approach that is how you figure the descent.

Use the chart below to get the "bug" speed for the approach. It's called bug speed because of the little triangle reference bug on the airspeed indicator.

Even though this chart is for the -200 you can still get pretty close to -100 speeds.
Example: GW 150,000#  Flaps 30 bug or Reference speed is: 132 KTS + 10 = 142 KTS

  

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