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 25 Lou - STORIES (Read 911437 times)
LOU
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #105 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 3:28pm
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CoolP, Short of loosing a wing, there is nothing worse than a fire in the plane, because you really don't know what you have. With a passenger flight you have extra firefighters in the flight attendants, but the two pilots in the cargo plane have no idea what is causing the smoke, and have little or no way to get to the area of the fire to put it out.

One flight a while back had a small fire in the cabin which the F/A's were able to handle very quickly. The source of the fire was a ladies hand bag. In flight, the woman replaced a 9 volt battery in some electronic device. She threw the "old" battery in her hand bag and placed the bag under her seat. The battery came in contact with a coin and shorted out. It had enough life to get very hot and start a small fire in the bag. Thank's to the quick work of the cabin team the fire was put out and the flight pressed on.

There was a MD-80 flying from some southern city in the US to the north. Someone went into the lav and smoked. They tossed the butt in the waste bin where is started to smolder. In a very short time the bin was fully involved and smoke filled the plane. Even though the cabin team tried to fight the fire, the pilot decided to make and emergency descent and land in KCVG. That was a life saving decision because the fire was still going strong and only by landing is a very short time was everybody able to survive. Remember, only the pilots have limited smoke protection with their mask and goggles. The passenger O2 mask is only a very small amount of oxygen mixed with ambient air - no help in smoke conditions.

Who knows why two well trained pilots passed by a place to land and continued to a distant airport? Maybe it was that they were more familiar with the departure airport, or maybe they wanted to go where company personal could assist, we will never know.

CoolP asked for another story...

One fine morning in LIMC, we were getting ready to fly our flight back to KJFK with a full load of people. We observed the inbound flight land and taxi to the gate and noticed the left engine reverser on this 767-200 still opened. Since the 767 reverser is operated by hydraulics the pilots don't try to force it back as we did with the 707, 727 air driven reverser. As the people were unloading, the mechanics opened the left cowl to see what the problem could be. The cowl on the 767 is pretty big and uses hydraulic power to open and close. After messing around for a while they decided they could not fix the problem in MXP, so the stowed & pinned the reverser and closed the cowl. In the cockpit, the left reverser was wired in the stowed position and the log book entry made to dispatch the plane with the left engine reverser inop.

The plane took off at max takeoff weight and climbed out of the airport. I was flying and if you are familiar with MXP (Milan), you know that the Alps are just a short distance to the north of the airport. If you cannot climb to a certain altitude by the NDB, you will need to circle to gain altitude before you can begin to cross the Alps and head northwest. After a turn in the pattern, we proceeded toward our ocean crossing. Eight hours later we are nearing our destination and begin the descent. We are just passing abeam Boston on the approach to KJFK and are advised by JKF approach to keep up our speed as we are number one in the sequence for east arrivals.

This works for us since we all had a commuter flight or long car ride ahead, so early is good! As we descended down to FL-240 a small light on the center console flickered on. The light was REV ISOL. It just flickered once or twice and no EICAS message appeared. We both looked at each other with the same look... what's that mean? I opened the flight handbook and found one small sentence that said this light shows that hydraulic pressure is being applied to keep the reverser closed. While we were trying to digest this information, the REV amber light above the engine instruments lit up. A few seconds passed and the plane lurched and a loud bang was heard. I grabbed the controls, and very slowly eased the left throttle closed. There is a knock on the cockpit door. It is the second co-pilot who was seated in the cabin. His face was very telling. He said, "it's gone! The cowling is gone!" Don't forget we were leading the pack into KJFK doing just about barber pole. Pretty exciting! As we looked around the instruments we could not see anything amiss. The engine was running just fine. There was no fluid loss, or control problem, but a very large piece of our 767 was somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean.

ATC asked if we slowed down, and we told him about our adventure and asked to set up for a low pass at KJFK so the mechanics could look the plane over before we moved the flaps or gear. We were vectored to a make a pass over runway 22R at KJFK since the landing runway was 13L/R. We descended to 300 feet and slowed to just above no flap speed. The ground folks looked at us through binoculars and said they observed what looked like some parts missing on the underside of the left inboard wing. We decided all we really needed to land was the gear, so we slowly started a climb back to traffic pattern altitude and lowered the wheels. Normal extension!  Smiley Now we tried the first notch of flaps. Also normal, no control problems and no fluid loss. We used normal flaps for landing and I made one of my better slick jobs and greased it on!  Tongue

The mechanics were waiting for us as we turned off the runway. We shut down the left engine and awaited their report. When he returned to the headset he reported extensive damage to the left wing leading edge and underside parts of the wing. Two large flap track canoes were missing along with the engine cowl. I ask him if he wanted to tow us into the gate and he said..."you flew if #%&*# in you can darn well taxi it the rest of the way.  Shocked

Now, what I did not tell you was my announcement to the passengers right after the event. I don't lie to the passengers - ever! If we are flying around thunderstorms, that's what I call them, not rain showers. So I told the folks what had happened and what we intended to do - like the low pass etc,. I can tell you every person listened to my every word during that announcement.

Epilogue: MXP said they pinned the reverser... I wonder! The cowling was not closed - all the way. As we made our descent into the N. Y. we were asked to keep up our speed. Some how through vibration, air pressure, who knows - the reverser section wanted to move back. The REV ISOL (reverser isolation) gizmo tried to do its thing. As soon as that cowl moved just a hair, the air caught it and it was bye bye cowl. If the cowl had departed the aircraft over the wing, some one else would be doing these stories on the forum. The cowl ripped off and went under the wing missing the tail, but destroying the large leading edge device and big flap covers. The plane flew just fine.

Lou
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #106 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 4:22pm
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Lucky you, Lou. This reverser happening lead to the crash of that Lauda Air 767 (see link above), so I'm really glad that you are actually able to tell your story, instead of "some one else would be doing these stories on the forum" as you've named it.

Another engine here and there's quite some cowling left, but it still remains a disturbing picture, doesn't it?

Nice story, Lou. And yes, LIMC is an interesting and beautiful location.
  
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #107 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 7:39pm
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Wow. Close one.  Shocked

Hey, Lou, have you ever heard of the book "Vectors to Spare"? It's kind of the reverse of your stories, it's the stories of an Air Traffic Controller (Though most of his stories are about Toledo Express, so there's not a lot on big airliners). You might like it.
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #108 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 8:53pm
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Thanks, I'll check it out!
  

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LOU
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #109 - Apr 9th, 2011 at 9:21pm
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Time to answer the puzzler by pj747...

Now what one feature does the 767 differ from the 757 and all other Boeing jets that can cause a major problem after total battery failure?


If you lose all generators, then run the battery out in the 767, you will not be able to lower the gear. I'm guessing this is the difference you are referring to.

The reason is because you will lose both electric hydraulic pumps on the center hydraulic system, which powers the gear.

When the battery runs out, you will lose the air driven pump on the center system because the air driven pump valve requires 28v DC to remain open.

You have now lost the entire center hydraulic system and you can't lower the gear normally.

The alternate gear extension uses a 28v DC motor to mechanically unlock the gear. If you have no 28v DC, that option disappears also.

More reading:
http://www.smartcockpit.com/data/pdfs/plane/boeing/b767/instructor/B767_Electric...




  

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LOU
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #110 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 4:43pm
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AF 380 April 11 JFK... Wow!  That must have gotten their attention on the jungle jet.


This plane is a hazard at most airports.

Collision hier soir à JFK AF A380 avec un autre avion sur le tarmac.

Yesterday April 11 the A380 at JFK  AirFrance collided a plane on the tarmac

http://www.20min.ch/ro/videotv/?vid=200282
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #111 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 9:02pm
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Wow, thanks Lou for all the stories!  I love the 707 and 727 myself and went as far as building a 707 cockpit.  It was tough finding the parts, but I was able to track an old 707-323CC down and took that one (except the Webber seats of course).  I have enough parts to convert it to a 727-100 or 200 (have the glaresheilds and newer yokes for the -200).  I'm almost there in parts for the 737-200...lots of modifications for that one.  I have alot of work to do, but my buddy is almost done with his 707-331B (TWA) and I can't wait to fly it.  We're both going to use the Captain Sim 707 for the flight model.  We both had an opportunity to fly the level B 707 sim down here in Miami...and the Captain Sim felt just like it.  It was a couple years back but I think we set the EPRs to 1.8 and it rotated itself!  It was a heavy airplane, but a Cadillac and really nice airplane to fly (if the sim is anywhere like the real thing.

  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #112 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 10:37pm
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I found the official NTSB report on this:

************************************************************
                      NTSB ADVISORY
************************************************************

National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594


April 12, 2011

************************************************************

NTSB INVESTIGATING WING CLIPPING INCIDENT AT JFK AIRPORT


************************************************************

The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating a
wing tip clipping that occurred between an Airbus A380 (F-
HPJD) and a Bombardier CRJ-700 (N641CA) at John F. Kennedy
Airport in New York last night.

On April 11, 2011 at 8:25 PM EDT, preliminary reports
indicate that the left wing tip of Air France flight 7
struck the left horizontal stabilizer of Comair flight 293
while the Comair airplane was taxiing to its gate.  There
were 485 passengers and 25 crew onboard the Airbus and 52
passengers and 4 crew onboard the CRJ.  No injuries were
reported on either aircraft.  

The NTSB has requested the fight recorders (cockpit voice
recorder and flight data recorder) from both aircraft and
will review the content of those devices as part of the
investigation.  Also, the NTSB will review the air traffic
control tapes and ground movement radar data (ASDE-X). The
damage sustained to both aircraft is still being assessed.  

Parties to this investigation include the Federal Aviation
Administration, Comair, and the Air Line Pilots Association.
Also, accredited representatives from the French Bureau
d'Enquetes et d'Analyses (BEA), the Transportation Safety
Board of Canada (TSB), and their advisors from Airbus, Air
France, and Bombardier Aerospace, are assisting the
investigation.

The NTSB will release more information as it becomes
available.  

Media Contact:  Keith Holloway, 202-314-6100
hollow@ntsb.gov  
**********************************************************

That A380 is ugly and dangerous...
  

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LOU
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #113 - Apr 13th, 2011 at 1:48am
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boeing727223, Very cool indeed. Keep it a 707!  Cool

Lou
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #114 - Apr 13th, 2011 at 1:53am
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What was the A-380 pilot looking at that he did not see that other plane.
I don't know if the video was at 30 FPS or not , but it looked like he was booking.
Hard to believe that no one on the commuter was not hurt with that kind of impact. It lifted the right wing off the ground.

This plane is just too big for old airports. Not enough space to taxi side by side.  Sad

Lou
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #115 - Apr 13th, 2011 at 2:16am
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In my opinion it wasn't a simple incident but a real accident.

Yes, the Comair's passengers were very lucky.

The video resolution isn't pretty good, but gives us an idea of the accident. Shocked

  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #116 - Apr 13th, 2011 at 2:34am
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They apparently impounded the A380 for the incident...
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #117 - Apr 13th, 2011 at 4:20am
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Oh, my God! It knocked the CRJ aside like a toy! The A380 could become a hazard. Imagine if one plowed forward into something like a little commuter Embraer prop plane or something!

It's kind of like the 707 when it first came out. Many airports just aren't big enough for it.

Oh, I found this while looking up the weight of the A380: this is just sad...
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_weight_of_Boing_A380
  

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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #118 - Apr 13th, 2011 at 6:52am
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boeing247 wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 4:20am:
Oh, my God! It knocked the CRJ aside like a toy!

Well, compared to the A380, most planes are toys.  Grin As long as you don't come in with a mighty Antonov 225 or something.

Guys, you were looking at some ground based incident which could arise from many things including the AF pilots not looking at their screens (cameras), taxing too fast and "confident" and the small plane not parking at the right spot, just to name a few. Are we at the stage of knowing the actuall cause yet? Really?
The A380, just like the new 747-8, fills the 80m-Box in full, so we're talking about a "known big thing" there since this box is the planning value for all major airports since the big planes were announced. Since this thing happened at KJFK, we are not talking about a small or unprepared (for the A380) field, if anybody is in doubt.

While maybe DC-10 eat up baggage carts or 747s lose their cargo doors in flight, the A380 is big. Did anybody doubt that?
Now, if you taxi big things, you have to watch closely. Is that new to anyone around?

Quote:
The A380 could become a hazard. Imagine if one plowed forward into something like a little commuter Embraer prop plane or something!

You are right, all other planes are no hazard to smaller ones, not at all.  Roll Eyes C'mon.
Ever looked at an SUV going into some Prius? That's what I call a actual hazard, happening far more often than the impact of one big size plane into another. Just saying.
And, as said, a B1900 for example won't be too happy with a "small" 767 too, if this ever happens.
You may want to look up the incident databases for the current numbers of such things. Is there any number at all?
Since planes are too big for any impact-countermeasures nowadays, the focus is on avoiding the impact itself.
There was a guy some time ago, demanding planes to be able to take inflight! impacts from by another plane and still being able to fly. I think that the whole leading engineers (so US, European, Brazilian and so on) were listening and later asking, what this guy thinks how those tanks would look and fly like, while not actually getting hit by other planes (should be 99.99999999+% of operation time).
He remained silent since then.  Grin


I really doubt that the regional Jet there would have been "kissed away" if e. g. "just" a B747 had taken over his T-Tail while not being taxied the right way. So the actual hazard arises from the wrong operation of things, not from their size, which is a known fact (unlike the numerous things which might distract pilots in the cockpit, leading to strange ways of taxiing and/or parking).
The first impression outcome for me is that the addition of wrong parking and not right taxiing leads to an impact like this.
I don't think that they will start building folding wings A380 now, but you never know.  Cheesy
Maybe the advertisement jumps on this, stating "you want to be in an Airbus when this happens!"  Grin

Boeing had a folding wing option on the first 777, but it was never ordered so they left it out.
  
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Re: Lou - STORIES
Reply #119 - Apr 13th, 2011 at 7:20am
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boeing727223, so this picture shows your homebased installation?
Well, count me in as one of the jealous guys now. Impressive thing there. I have to show this to my girlfriend, she will call you insane while I will admire you for the time being.  Cheesy
  
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