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 10 Super 27.. (Read 7280 times)
Kjetil
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Super 27..
Jan 1st, 2011 at 1:47pm
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Is there any difference in performance from the regular 727 100 and the super-27 edition?? In real it have increased speed and altitude and it is a little more powerful.
  

Kjetil H J
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Markoz
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Re: Super 27..
Reply #1 - Jan 1st, 2011 at 3:04pm
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The Super 27 is the same as the standard 727-100. All of the 727-100 use the same aircarft.cfg and cs727100.air files in the CS_B727-100 folder. So it makes no difference whether it is a standard, another company and RE/another company model. You do not get the extra performance.

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Kjetil
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Re: Super 27..
Reply #2 - Jan 2nd, 2011 at 2:20pm
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Ok, thanks. But is it possible to take the Super-27 into its own folder and tweak it?
  

Kjetil H J
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CoolP
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Re: Super 27..
Reply #3 - Jan 2nd, 2011 at 10:17pm
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I think you can copy that CS_B727-100 folder, tweak the aircraft.cfg there (thrust, fuel, weights, as you like) and just have to make sure that you rename the models showing up in the aircraft selection screen.
FSX and you will get mixed up otherwise.

I haven't tried this tweak but it should work.
  
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Kjetil
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Re: Super 27..
Reply #4 - Jan 2nd, 2011 at 11:35pm
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I will give it a try, find the percent between the old 727 100 and the Super-27 and go from there.
  

Kjetil H J
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CoolP
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Re: Super 27..
Reply #5 - Jan 3rd, 2011 at 5:34am
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I'll try this too, just out of curiosity. I will report back if the copy process leads to any problems.

Make sure to rename every repaint in the copied folder, as said. FSX otherwise reminds you on every single paint that another one with the same name is present.
Maybe amend "Super" to every one or so.
As far as I can see, the simple copy process of the original 727-100 folder, the renaming of this folder and then the renaming of every livery entry in the aircraft.cfg gives you another complete model to play with.  Smiley


Seems like the modification on the "Super" wasn't that big.
Quote:
Quoting Monteycarlos (Thread starter):
Firstly, what is the freight capacity like in tonnage and in terms of containers available?

Firstly, the Super27 is the tag word for the Valsan engine mod which replaced the pod engines, #1 and #3, with JT8D-217 or -219 engines. The gross weight depends on the aircraft that was modified. You can have both 727-100's and -200's modified to the Super27. The freight weight is usually the standard 40,000 lbs for the -100 and 60,000 lbs for the -200.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/205369/
So more thrust seems to be the main difference here. I've already altered the thrust values on the normal 727 as I found them to be too low when compared to some Wikipedia data and especially when trying to get a loaded 727-200 out of higher situated airports.

So the Super has two JT8D-219 with Maximum thrust: 21,700lbf / 96.5kN (JT8D-219) while the No.2 engine stays the same as on the normal -100.
FSX doesn't support different engine types I think, so just take the average value of this 1 old, 2 new configuration and edit the static_thrust=xxxxx value at [TurbineEngineData].
This should give you a nice boost of performance.

Don't ask me how to establish the better efficiency of the two newer engines when editing the fuel consumption though. I have no idea how to get correct values there, this would take some try and error attempts with some charts being available. Have fun.  Smiley
  
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Kjetil
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Re: Super 27..
Reply #6 - Jan 3rd, 2011 at 11:46am
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I dont really care about one on one engine data, its the total thrust I want. What I did was copy the folder and renaming it to CS_727-100_sitm. Then I delete the texture.sitm in the regular 727-100 folder and removing it in the CFG. And the oposite in the other one.
It worked for me, the plane was there and everything was normal.

As to engine data and fuel burn, I did put the thrustscalar up a bit and the fulflow down. You have to keep in mind that this is the engines that was later fitted to the MDs, so to me that indicates that it have to have a significant more thrust than the regular 727.

I still havent found any hard numbers for the enginedata so I can calculate it. The math to me is simple when the numbers are there. The thrust and fuel burn on a regular 727 is 100% and go from there...

I will report back too on how it works.  Smiley
  

Kjetil H J
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Kjetil
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Re: Super 27..
Reply #7 - Jan 21st, 2011 at 11:30am
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Hi. I have some numbers to work with now. But I couldnt count them all in because it was too mutch (all engine variations, winglet efficiency, hushkits, newexaust nozzles and more). So I took the very basic.
The numbers I did include was the total thrust on the standard 727 engines JT8D-7(3x14000lb) and total thrust on the super 27 JT8D-217C(1x14000lb + 2x22000lb).
The number 2 engine is the same, but 1 and 3 is more powerfull and burn the fuel more clean and efficient. So, total thrust increase is 38%, and fuel decrease is around 20%.
So the thrust scalar should be from 1,0 standard to 1,38 S27. And down the fuel flow scalar, from 1,0 standard to 0.8 S27.

It seems to work fine in my FSX. The climb capability was alot better. I have only done this with the 100 series (SITM). 200 series is to be tweaked soon.

The numbers I have not included is the total payload increase. The 100 series it was up to 6000lb (MTOW from 170.000lb to 176.000lb) and the 200 series it was up to 10.000lb (MTOW from 210.000lb to 220.000lb). I'm not sure how to work this out, so if any of you have any ideas it's very welcome. Also if anyone disagree in the numbers I presented here please let me know.

Thanks
Kjetil  Smiley
  

Kjetil H J
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Kapitan
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Re: Super 27..
Reply #8 - Jan 21st, 2011 at 12:04pm
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Kjetil wrote on Jan 21st, 2011 at 11:30am:
Hi. I have some numbers to work with now. But I couldnt count them all in because it was too mutch (all engine variations, winglet efficiency, hushkits, newexaust nozzles and more). So I took the very basic.
The numbers I did include was the total thrust on the standard 727 engines JT8D-7(3x14000lb) and total thrust on the super 27 JT8D-217C(1x14000lb + 2x22000lb).
The number 2 engine is the same, but 1 and 3 is more powerfull and burn the fuel more clean and efficient. So, total thrust increase is 38%, and fuel decrease is around 20%.
So the thrust scalar should be from 1,0 standard to 1,38 S27. And down the fuel flow scalar, from 1,0 standard to 0.8 S27.

It seems to work fine in my FSX. The climb capability was alot better. I have only done this with the 100 series (SITM). 200 series is to be tweaked soon.

The numbers I have not included is the total payload increase. The 100 series it was up to 6000lb (MTOW from 170.000lb to 176.000lb) and the 200 series it was up to 10.000lb (MTOW from 210.000lb to 220.000lb). I'm not sure how to work this out, so if any of you have any ideas it's very welcome. Also if anyone disagree in the numbers I presented here please let me know.

Thanks
Kjetil  Smiley


Hi, what you need is the net thrust and fuel consumption in relation to its weight. The Super is a complete different plane, (longer, heavier, center of gravity, etc) I believe its not just 38% more powerful and consuming 20% less fuel. Per your figures the payload increased up to 68% and the MTOW nearly 30%, I guess these combined changes in power and eight were made to counter the increase...leaving the Super with the same ratio as the 100 series, or at best a maximum of 10% more power and efficiency, not more than that.
K
  

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Kjetil
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Re: Super 27..
Reply #9 - Jan 21st, 2011 at 6:35pm
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You got a big point there, but I have to ad that I am no math-expert. So I agree it seems a little overkill, but still, the numbers is pure engine power increase. I haven't included the MTOW, CG and all of the rest. Please help me out.
Energy transfer versus mass... I have no idea on how to even begin.
I have the numbers, I just need to put them in some kind of....ehm...mathematic formula, or whatever it's called.

Anyone good with numbers? Please give it a go.. "I have so much to think of, but so little to think with"

Kjetil
  

Kjetil H J
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CoolP
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Re: Super 27..
Reply #10 - Jan 23rd, 2011 at 2:02am
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Don't worry, Kjetil, the small changes in the aircraft.cfg will always be a rather rough method of tweaking a plane. The real work comes from the air file edit and that's the thing with the real maths coming in.

So don't set the stakes too high but rather be confident about small "super-like" improvements done.
  
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Kjetil
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Re: Super 27..
Reply #11 - Jan 23rd, 2011 at 11:53am
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At least I tried. I'm going to down it a little on the engine power so it's ruffly 16-18% more than the standard, and down the FC about 10%. At least there is a little difference now.

Thanks for the interest and input guys. I really appreciate it.  Smiley

Kjetil
  

Kjetil H J
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CoolP
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Re: Super 27..
Reply #12 - Jan 25th, 2011 at 7:42am
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Here's a video of a Super 27 operator, even in that nice paint. http://www.worldairroutes.com/Cougar.html
It's a 727-200 basis there.
  
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Panny
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FSX is a pain in the ass.

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Re: Super 27..
Reply #13 - Jul 26th, 2012 at 8:32pm
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Working on a -200 series version.
  

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