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 10 What am I doing wrong with g/s capture? (Read 11247 times)
Tim Capps
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What am I doing wrong with g/s capture?
Jul 10th, 2010 at 12:41pm
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I finally decided to try an automated approach (too much fun to fly manually).  I switched to auto g/s and waited for it to do something when the glideslope was intercepted from below, but nothing happened.  Can someone run down the steps.  I am capturing the localizer fine, just on the glide slope.
  

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Markoz
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Re: What am I doing wrong with g/s capture?
Reply #1 - Jul 10th, 2010 at 3:03pm
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I find it best to line up on the ILS from a fair way out (10nm - 15nm) and below the G/S. Once I have captured the ILS, I wait until just before the G/S reaches the center of the ADI. Once ILS and G/S are captured, I switch to MAN G/S on the A/P. MAN G/S is much smoother than AUTO G/S, less rocking and rolling while it is trying to stay "on the ball", so to speak. This works for me every time. I get a nice smooth approach and landing.

Hope this helps.

Mark
  

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Merlin
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Re: What am I doing wrong with g/s capture?
Reply #2 - Jul 12th, 2010 at 8:00am
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Hi Tim

I can second Mark. May I add following to it:

a) Make sure you have the ILS-Frequency tuned into NAV 1
b) Try to be at propper speed (~200)

So, this is what I do:

1) Dial in the ILS-Frequency into NAV 1
2) AP is on MAN and Heading/Alt Select is ON
3) When I see the G/S Indicator "wandering in" (e.g. I start to intercept the G/S horizontally) I put the AP on AUTO G/S
4) You will now see that the "Heading Hold" switch will turn to OFF
   - Hold Altitude is still on
5) Once I am on the G/S (horizontally) I put the A/P on MAN G/S
6) It will start to decend the G/S as soon as you intercept the vertical
   beam. If I recall correctly, the "Hold Altidude" Switch will stay "ON",
   but as long as it descends...
 Grin
Happy Landings
Mike#

P.S.: I managed to do a ILS Approach that way yesterday and I know how to do it. But sometimes it just won´t work. I will always intercept the horizontal beam but I had/have a hard time to get the vertical beam (yes, I am always "below" when I try to catch).
If it doesn´t work the first time, keep on trying - I sure tried a couple of times until it worked...  Roll Eyes
  
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Jack Vogel
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Re: What am I doing wrong with g/s capture?
Reply #3 - Jul 15th, 2010 at 7:03am
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Tim is right, I also usually land manually, or rather just use
the localizer, err Mike G/S doesnt have a horizontal component
thats called the localizer.  But I was practicing some landings
this evening and just tried to follow the glideslope and it did
NOT follow it.  And, yes, I think i know how Smiley

Have no such problem in the 757 or 767 on the same approach,
this is on auto g/s, what is the manual supposed to do??

Its not a big deal to me as I prefer to land manually but it would
be nice to know what's wrong.
  

Jack F Vogel  -  Delta Virtual Airlines&&      
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Markoz
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Re: What am I doing wrong with g/s capture?
Reply #4 - Jul 15th, 2010 at 7:35am
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Jack Vogel wrote on Jul 15th, 2010 at 7:03am:
Have no such problem in the 757 or 767 on the same approach,
this is on auto g/s, what is the manual supposed to do??

Its not a big deal to me as I prefer to land manually but it would
be nice to know what's wrong.
OK. LOU explained it in a post here somewhere, but I can't find it. It goes like this:

The AUTO G/S is initially used to catch the LOC and G/S. SO. After you are aligned with the LOC and descending along the G/S, switch the A/P to MAN G/S. MAN G/S is much less sensitive than AUTO G/S and so the aircraft will follow them both much more smoothly. You are much less likely to get that "roller coaster ride" type of approach. I have had some very nice smooth approaches and landings doing it this way. Staying with the AUTO G/S, I have had  mostly terrible ones!

Also. Once I get to my decision height (around 200' AGL) I turn the A/P OFF and manually fly the final approach and landing.

Mark
  

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Merlin
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Re: What am I doing wrong with g/s capture?
Reply #5 - Jul 15th, 2010 at 9:46am
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Jack Vogel

Thanks for the info (regarding "Localizer) - I´m not yet used to all the slang but got a new one now thanks to you  Grin

I wonder what Version you are on? You can find that out in your aircraft.cfg - it´s written quite on the beginning.

Since I own the boxed version I still am on Version 2.3.  You may be on version 2.4? Pls check as maybe you and I have a bug while Mark -being probably on SP 2.4 doesn´t have this issue anymore.

If you have bought the plane directly at CS via download then you are fine as you could download a patch. If you have the boxed version like me - you are not fine. But I´ll stop here as my blood pressure already starts raising  Sad

Happy Landings

Mike
  
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Re: What am I doing wrong with g/s capture?
Reply #6 - Jul 15th, 2010 at 12:55pm
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Hi Mike.

I was using the A/P the same way with v2.3 as well and although it was not quite as good as v2.4, it was still quite good using it the same way.

Be aware that if Jack is using the 727 Base pack download from CS, it will still show him as using v2.3!

This is the description from original aircraft.cfg in v2.4: description=727 Captain (727-100 Base Pack) v2.3\n(c) 2009 Captain Sim www.captainsim.com
I have edited it to read as follows: description=727 Captain (727-100 Base Pack) v2.4\n(c) 2010 Captain Sim www.captainsim.com

Mark
  

Mark Fletcher



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Re: What am I doing wrong with g/s capture?
Reply #7 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 8:42am
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Hi Mark

This is really strange - I indeed am always able to get the A/P to catch the localizer. It´s the descent that´s not working. In some cases it even happens that the A/P (no matter if on Auto or MAN G/S) veers off the horizontal path after he catched it propperly.

It catches it, keeps on track for a certain time - then seems to loose track and veers left or right. Happened yesterday on approach to Managua - Nicaragua.

I don´t want to ask too much of you, really. But if you have time at hand - could you do me a favour and fly the route "Guatemala City - Managua" It´s around 1 hour flight time. You will be directed to land at Managua Airport by flying over the city of Managua. Mind - there are some trees right bevore the RW treshold. I wonder if you can catch the ILS and land "free handed" until around 200 ft as you normaly do. I could not.

As a reminder, here my procedure:

a) Stay on A/P Manual with heading/alt engaged - direction and alt as 
    adviced by MS ATC. ILS Frequency tuned in.
b) As soon as I see the glide slope approaching on the instrument,
    I engage A/P Auto GS. At this moment I am at around 190 kn.
c) A/P Auto GS catches localizer and veers to intercept G/S course.
d) Once A/P Auto GS is established on localizer, I switch to A/P Man 
    GS in order to avoid coaster ride.
e) Now what normally happens is that "it" does NOT descend the G/S

I managed recently to have it descend the G/S that way when I was on Approach to Gran Canaria. There it went down just perfectly.

If you have the nerve to check that out - you would make my day  Cheesy

Cheers

P.S.: Are you using ORBX (http://fullterrain.com/) As an aussie it´s a must. You know it? If not - have a look. You will cry tears when you see that. I don´t have it as it´s not "my main place" - but you need it - no doubt  Grin )

Merlin
  
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Markoz
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Re: What am I doing wrong with g/s capture?
Reply #8 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 8:56am
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Hi Mike.

I'll give your flight a go pretty soon. hopefully tonight or tomorrow night. We had a blackout (for just a few seconds) and my wifes computer m/b fried itself and I'm fixing it ASAP. She'll kick my butt if I don't! Wink

And yes. I have FTX AU Blue, Green, Gold and Red, Avalon (YMAV) Melbourne (YMML) and Coffs Harbour (YSCH). All except Coffs Harbour were bought either pre-paid or as soon as they were released. I'll be upgrading to an i7 soon and hope to get some great results with Orbx FTX and REX and ASX/ASE. I get low framerates with YMML and YMAV unfortunately. Avalon and Melbourne are close to where I live (YBLT) so I use them a lot.

Mark
  

Mark Fletcher



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Re: What am I doing wrong with g/s capture?
Reply #9 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 9:05am
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Mark!

Thanks a lot for your kind support! Sorry for wifeys MoBo - I know how "urgent" those IT-Issues are  Grin  They could miss updating Facebook  Cheesy

I was almost sure you already have FTX - man I envy you for that Smiley I don´t even have to try to convince my wife of the "urgent necessity" to have this addon - I am currently on the "watch list" as we got an unexpected tax bill and thus finances are a bit "difficult"...


Have a look at this video (bet you already know it too) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqRRyegf0ns

Cheers Mate

Mike

P.S.: On 1992 when I got to know my wife whe was bound to go to AUS to learn english (LOL - she came back with that accent hehehe) and there she was a couple of weeks at Ocean Grove where she has family. The world IS actually small he?
  
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Markoz
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Re: What am I doing wrong with g/s capture?
Reply #10 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 10:31am
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I'm trying to convince the wife to get a new CPU to go with the new m/b, but she is still undecided. Facebook? She is missing her farming game because our laptop is a bit slow compared to her computer. Grin

As for my Flight Sim hobby, I'm quite lucky there. I get a pretty good amount of "pocket money" every week (allotted to me by my wife), so I get to buy my add-ons for Flight Sim whenever I have saved enough to get them.

Yes the world is small. My wife has some friends who don't live very far from Ocean Grove.

Mark
  

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Tim Capps
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Re: What am I doing wrong with g/s capture?
Reply #11 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 1:20pm
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I7 and GTX-480 made a huge difference.  Now there's no such thing as worrying about frame rates.  Captain Sim, bloom, everything <shrug>
  

PC: i9 10900K @ 3.8 GHz | 32GB DDR4 3200 | 10GB RTX 3080 | 32” Asus TUF VG32VQ Curved Monitor | Samsung 2TB SSD HD | Win 10 Pro 64 - Flight Sim P3Dv5.2 |
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Markoz
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Re: What am I doing wrong with g/s capture?
Reply #12 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 1:42pm
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GTX-480 @ $AU640 - $AU690 might be out of my reach for a (long) while. I was thinking of getting a GTX-470 @ $AU440 which is closer to my budget for a graphics card. As it is, I'm still deciding between an i7 860 with 8Gb of RAM and an i7 930 with 6Gb of RAM. Grin
  

Mark Fletcher



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Re: What am I doing wrong with g/s capture?
Reply #13 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 6:10pm
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Ya, I have I7-975 and GTX275, would like a Fermi, maybe for
christmas, but I'm still pretty happy at near max settings Smiley

I did buy my 727 via download, and I'm pretty sure I am at the
latest service.

I've tweaked the autopilot section of the aircraft.cfg based on a
posting over at avsim, but after all is said and done I'd still say
this is broken.

What I usually do is 1. Tune to localizer, get a vector into the
path and then set AP to NAV/Loc, once in the signal path it
catches the localizer just fine. BTW, I did discover that if you
had the 'Heading Select' switch set it will not capture the localizer
either, have to make sure to turn that off. 2. As I watch the
G/S indicator when it starts to fall, I'll drop gear, and then
toggle the AP over to auto g/s. What I expect to happen is as
it crosses the horizon point that the plane noses down and
keeps it there, right, its what every other Boeing does, its what
DF will do on FS9, there's not supposed to be any secret hand
signal Smiley, but it ain't happening guys, tried it multiple times in
the 28L approach to KPDX last night, no joy Sad
  

Jack F Vogel  -  Delta Virtual Airlines&&      
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Markoz
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Re: What am I doing wrong with g/s capture?
Reply #14 - Jul 17th, 2010 at 1:05am
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Hi Jack.

If you bought the download version it will be the latest version.

As to the A/P capturing the ILS. I do it much the same way as you do. It captures both the ILS and the G/S and, as I said before, once it has captured them both, I switch to MAN G/S. I get a nice smooth approach and landing. I have flown many flights in the CS727 that way.

Mark
  

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