Visit Captain Sim web site  
  Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

 

Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
 10 Planning a Transatlantic Route Tutorial (Read 17736 times)
Tim Capps
Senior Member
*
Offline


Defense Lawyer & US Navy
JAG (ret), Writer

Posts: 1070
Location: Southern Illinois
Joined: May 21st, 2009
Planning a Transatlantic Route Tutorial
Nov 15th, 2009 at 6:11pm
Print Post  
What if you don’t have a company route or flight plan, or need to plot an alternate (RTE 2), or got something off of one of the popular internet sites like simroutes?  Or maybe you just wish to play with the FMC some more?  If you can find a route online, you can enter it in your RTE page.  Such a route (from Atlanta to London) may look something like this:

AHN J208 HPW J191 RBV JFK PUT EBONY N123A YAY NATW ODLUM UM17 DEXET UP979 DEVOL UN546 STU UP2 NUMPO Y3 BEDEK

You may recognize the three-letter navigational aids or the five-letter intersections, but what are those strange J208 or UM17 or UN546?  Those are airways, the highways in the sky used by high-altitude traffic.  If your navdata includes them, you can put them in your FMC and all the waypoints along the way will automagically be added to your LEGS page.  Let’s see how this works.

KATL goes in as origin, and EGLL as destination.  Go to page 2 of RTE 1.  Type in AHN at Line 1R, followed by J208 in Line 2L and HPW in line 2R.  In the VIA column on the left, you should see DIRECT at Line 1 and AHN in the TO column.  This is because you have not designated an airway to follow to AHN.  That’s okay.  You should also see J208 in the VIA column and HPW in the TO column.  Here we have an airway (J208) and a “destination waypoint” (HPW).  Think of the airways as segments of the interstate highway, and the “TOs” as exits.  You’ll notice that when a waypoint is input, there is going to be a new airway on the next line in the left column.

Next put in JFK at Line 4R, right under RBV.  Don’t put anything in the VIA line to the left.  Notice how “DIRECT” appears on line 4L.  That’s because you’re just flying directly that next waypoint without paying attention to an airway.  Go ahead and put In direct to PUT.  How would you do that?  You would simply insert it in Line 5R, right under JFK.  What happens if you are suddenly presented with two or more PUTs to choose from?  The first one should be the closest, and, therefore, the correct one. ( One of the things we’ll do when we STEP through our waypoints on the LEGS page while looking at the PLAN display is to make sure all the waypoints we’ve entered make sense.  If you find a 2000 nm leg going off in some other direction, you have probably picked the wrong one.)  Note how “DIRECT” automatically appears to the left of it.  When you run out of lines, hit the NEXT PAGE key and continue for as long as you need to.

Continue with EBONY direct after PUT, and then YAY via N123A.  Then put in NATW.

What happened?  Did you get a “NOT IN DATABASE” message?  NAT stands for North Atlantic Track.  W is the designator for a particular one. These are transatlantic aerial superhighways that use longitude and latitude.  They change all the time, depending on winds aloft and other weather.  But if you are using NAT Whiskey, you’ll need to know what the waypoints are.  Otherwise you will cross the whole Atlantic without a single waypoint!

Where do you find NATS?  Go to

www.notams.jcs.mil/common/nat.html  

My browser doesn’t like that site, but go ahead and reassure it that there is nothing nasty awaiting.  Then look for W.  Today I find a problem.  W jumps off from a final leg of DOTTY to CRONO, not EBONY to YAY.  This is where your North Atlantic  / Mid Atlantic Plotting Chart comes in handy.  What’s that?  You don’t have one?  That’s okay – this time.  But if you’re serious about flying the 767 across the pond as realistically as possible, you’ll want to invest in a few.  You can buy them, and the excellent “767 Long Haul and ETOPS Guide” from www.lrops.com.  It is reasonably priced and packed with information; more than I can supply here.  You can read my review of it http://www.avsim.com/pages/0809/Book/LROPS.htm.

Looking at my chart, I find that the two are pretty close to one another.  We’ll change to Track V so we don’t have to change what we have entered so far.  When you plot on your own, you will want to take a look at your NATs early so you can plot your route to the proper exit.  With a change in NAT, we will have a different exit.  According to the daily NAT site, V ends at DOGAL and goes to BABAN.  You see 53/50, 54/40, 54/30 and 54/20?  Those are fixes you will need to enter as directs to, but not quite as given.  Instead, type in (direct) 5350N, 5340N, etc.  Your FMC will understand.   We also learn that eastward levels give us the following choices: 320, 330, 340, 350, 360, 370, 380, 390 and 400.  You would pick one of these levels to cross.

Moving to the other side, find DOGAL and BABAN. Since ODLUM is close, we’ll go ahead get back to our original route by typing (after 5420N) DOGAL direct, then ODLUM direct.  Then enter DEXET via UM17, DEVOL via UP979. STU via UN546, NUMPO via UP2 and BEDEK via Y3.

That’s your route.  Well, almost your route, because you are still responsible for entering SIDs and STARS if you intend to use them.  Pick the most natural flow to your first waypoint and to your last from among the available SIDs and STARS in your navdata.  You can even try them out first by entering them and seeing how they look.  If you are coming in from the west and your STAR looks like it starts off to the east of the airport, you probably need to change your STAR.  Hit the line select key corresponding to ERASE and pick another transition.  With practice, it will become second nature.

Now comes the fun part.  Hit your LEGS button.  Notice how there are many, many more waypoints than you entered? That’s because you just entered where you got on an airway and where you got off.  The FMC puts in all the points in between.  Switch your HSI to PLAN and step through to make sure you don’t have any unwanted excursions.  Adjust range so you can see as much as the route as you can without waypoints crowding too close together to read.  Looks like a good route, doesn’t it?

There are four ways to enter a route.  You can import a company route (if you have one; if you don't save the ones you like); you can import a flight plan; you can use FSX's surprisingly useful, if limited, flight planner to either create a route automatically, or pick your way through the map, dragging your magenta line from one navaid or intersection to the next; or, finally, you can obtain a route such as described above and enter VIAs and TOs.  If you are going to cross the Atlantic, find the most direct North Atlantic Track and build from there.  Flight planning may or may not be something you enjoy, but it is necessary.
  

PC: i9 10900K @ 3.8 GHz | 32GB DDR4 3200 | 10GB RTX 3080 | 32” Asus TUF VG32VQ Curved Monitor | Samsung 2TB SSD HD | Win 10 Pro 64 - Flight Sim P3Dv5.2 |
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markoz
CS Team
*
Offline



Posts: 12445
Location: Victoria, Australia
Joined: Apr 24th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Planning a Transatlantic Route Tutorial
Reply #1 - Nov 16th, 2009 at 2:21am
Print Post  
Thank you Tim!

I'm off to give it a go.

Mark
  

Mark Fletcher



PC: i7 10700K @3.8/5.1GHz | 64GB DDR4 3200 | 12GB RTX 4070 Super | 32" LCD Monitor | 1TB SSD + 2TB SSD + 2TB HDD | Win 11 Pro
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Tim Capps
Senior Member
*
Offline


Defense Lawyer & US Navy
JAG (ret), Writer

Posts: 1070
Location: Southern Illinois
Joined: May 21st, 2009
Re: Planning a Transatlantic Route Tutorial
Reply #2 - Nov 16th, 2009 at 6:02am
Print Post  
Let me know the mistakes so I can correct them.  Thanks, Mark.
  

PC: i9 10900K @ 3.8 GHz | 32GB DDR4 3200 | 10GB RTX 3080 | 32” Asus TUF VG32VQ Curved Monitor | Samsung 2TB SSD HD | Win 10 Pro 64 - Flight Sim P3Dv5.2 |
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markoz
CS Team
*
Offline



Posts: 12445
Location: Victoria, Australia
Joined: Apr 24th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Planning a Transatlantic Route Tutorial
Reply #3 - Nov 16th, 2009 at 1:42pm
Print Post  
Hi Tim.

All went well except for some minor problems. One was I couldn't access that web site about NATS so I was pretty much on my own with that. Another problem was that I couldn't find a STAR that started from the west. A few start from the north but most were from the east. All the rest of the problems were caused by me and not the tutorial.  Embarrassed

I think it's a great tutorial Tim. I just need to practice it to get it right.

Mark
  

Mark Fletcher



PC: i7 10700K @3.8/5.1GHz | 64GB DDR4 3200 | 12GB RTX 4070 Super | 32" LCD Monitor | 1TB SSD + 2TB SSD + 2TB HDD | Win 11 Pro
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Tim Capps
Senior Member
*
Offline


Defense Lawyer & US Navy
JAG (ret), Writer

Posts: 1070
Location: Southern Illinois
Joined: May 21st, 2009
Re: Planning a Transatlantic Route Tutorial
Reply #4 - Nov 16th, 2009 at 5:08pm
Print Post  
http://www.gofir.com/general/nat_tracks/index.htm

Is an alternate site that seems to be working better today.

I usually look at W, X, Y or Z then plot backwards to my departure airport's best transition from the SID (I generally use DAWGS4 from KATL) and then take the last NAT waypoint and look for the most reasonable route to my desination, again taking into account the STAR.

This is if I don't have a prepared route from simroutes, or just feel like doing it myself.

OCK 2F would be good, since it transitions from BEDEK.  It will take you to Ockham, not surprisingly, where you could even hold if needed / wanted.  Then you'll want the 27R arrival from Ockham.

I suppose I'll re-do the tutorial to include SIDs and STARs, but this one was mainly how to handle the kind of routes you get from simroutes., and that's the only one I found from simroutes.  At east the mechanics are correct, and (now) the resources you need.

Another way is just to use FSX's flight planner and work out your route point to point, then add those waypoints all direct.  Somewhat less elegent, but gets the job done.  I use direct GPS for this method, and try to keep my line as close as possible given the airways and NAT.  Then there is always the push a button and see what FSX gives you.  Some routes northern Atlantic routes can be pretty wacky, though.
  

PC: i9 10900K @ 3.8 GHz | 32GB DDR4 3200 | 10GB RTX 3080 | 32” Asus TUF VG32VQ Curved Monitor | Samsung 2TB SSD HD | Win 10 Pro 64 - Flight Sim P3Dv5.2 |
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
DAL191
Senior Member
*
Offline



Posts: 388
Location: Tampa FL USA
Joined: Nov 26th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Planning a Transatlantic Route Tutorial
Reply #5 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 1:15pm
Print Post  
With enough trying and patience I haqe been able to enter, activate and execute almost all flight plans. NATW and the lastest one NATX have me completely stumped.  It makes no difference if I Line Select it to the left or right side, I still receive NOT IN DATA BASE. The navigation data base which came with the 767-300 Base is the one dated March-April 2009. Does anyone know what might be the problem?
Thank you.
  

Cooler Master HAF 932 Case, Corsair 1200W PS, Corsair H50 Liquid Cooler,I7-2700K 4.6GHz, ASRock Z68 ProfessionalGen3 MB, 8GB G.Skill RipJaws DDR3 1866 MHz 2-300GB VelociRaptor 10000RPM SATA 16MB Cache, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780ti, 3072MB, GDDR5, PCIe, ASUS 27" LED Monitor, Windows7 64bit, FSX Gold
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Cthulhus
Senior Member
*
Offline


If it's Boeing,   I'm
going !

Posts: 850
Location: France
Joined: Mar 1st, 2006
Gender: Male
Re: Planning a Transatlantic Route Tutorial
Reply #6 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 2:58pm
Print Post  
nice job !
  

Xavier Jehl (Cthulhus) &&&&
Back to top
IP Logged
 
scandinavian13
Full Member
*
Offline



Posts: 40
Joined: Apr 2nd, 2007
Re: Planning a Transatlantic Route Tutorial
Reply #7 - Dec 13th, 2009 at 5:13pm
Print Post  
[quote author=pcubine link=1258308719/0#5 date=1260623708]With enough trying and patience I haqe been able to enter, activate and execute almost all flight plans. NATW and the lastest one NATX have me completely stumped.  It makes no difference if I Line Select it to the left or right side, I still receive NOT IN DATA BASE. The navigation data base which came with the 767-300 Base is the one dated March-April 2009. Does anyone know what might be the problem?
Thank you.[/quote]
Yes.  You cannot enter NATA NATB NATC or NAT-anything into the FMC.  You need to go to the referenced sites that publish what the current tracks (NATs) are for the day.

On that site, it will say:
A PIKIL 57/20 58/30 59/40 58/50 PORGY HO
EAST LVLS NIL
WEST LVLS 310 320 330 340 350 360 370 380 390
(EAST LVLS NIL with the altitudes only listed in the WEST LVLS means that this NAT is westbound only)

This means that NATA is a current option, and is defined by the waypoints (what you enter into the FMC) PIKIL, Lat/Lon 57/20, 58/30, 59/40, 58/50, waypoint PORGY, and NDB HO.

Entrys to your FMC should be as follows:
Beginning of route up to NATx (where x is whatever letter is in the plan)
PIKIL
58/30
59/40
58/50
PORGY
HO
End of route after NATx

Be careful.  Sometimes plans found online (this one for today's KLM652) will read like this:
JFK PUT TUSKY N63B VIXUN NATT 53/30 NATT DOGAL NATT BABAN UN544 DEVOL

You see NATT in several places.  Check the site for the current NATs and you'll see this:
T VIXUN LOGSU 49/50 51/40 53/30 54/20 DOGAL BABAN
EAST LVLS 320 330 340 350 360 370 380 390 400
WEST LVLS NIL

As you can see, the NATT placeholder only omits a couple waypoints in the plan.  Basically, if you see a plan with several instances of a NAT, ignore the middle fixes and insert the NAT from the first instance to the last instance.  It'll all match up in the end.

Kyle
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
DAL191
Senior Member
*
Offline



Posts: 388
Location: Tampa FL USA
Joined: Nov 26th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Planning a Transatlantic Route Tutorial
Reply #8 - Dec 13th, 2009 at 7:01pm
Print Post  
Thank you scandinavian13.

Mike Cubine
  

Cooler Master HAF 932 Case, Corsair 1200W PS, Corsair H50 Liquid Cooler,I7-2700K 4.6GHz, ASRock Z68 ProfessionalGen3 MB, 8GB G.Skill RipJaws DDR3 1866 MHz 2-300GB VelociRaptor 10000RPM SATA 16MB Cache, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780ti, 3072MB, GDDR5, PCIe, ASUS 27" LED Monitor, Windows7 64bit, FSX Gold
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
AABoeing
Full Member
*
Offline



Posts: 219
Location: Texas
Joined: Oct 9th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Planning a Transatlantic Route Tutorial
Reply #9 - Dec 15th, 2009 at 1:22pm
Print Post  
Where would you find Company Routes?
  

Alex
CFI/CFII
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
DAL191
Senior Member
*
Offline



Posts: 388
Location: Tampa FL USA
Joined: Nov 26th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Planning a Transatlantic Route Tutorial
Reply #10 - Dec 15th, 2009 at 8:12pm
Print Post  
I use a website called flightaware. com. I imagine they are company routes because they never change from day to day. The routes that I fly are the same as they were a month ago as long as you get them from the same airline. Other airlines use constant but different routes.
  

Cooler Master HAF 932 Case, Corsair 1200W PS, Corsair H50 Liquid Cooler,I7-2700K 4.6GHz, ASRock Z68 ProfessionalGen3 MB, 8GB G.Skill RipJaws DDR3 1866 MHz 2-300GB VelociRaptor 10000RPM SATA 16MB Cache, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780ti, 3072MB, GDDR5, PCIe, ASUS 27" LED Monitor, Windows7 64bit, FSX Gold
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markoz
CS Team
*
Offline



Posts: 12445
Location: Victoria, Australia
Joined: Apr 24th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Planning a Transatlantic Route Tutorial
Reply #11 - Dec 15th, 2009 at 11:25pm
Print Post  
[quote author=pcubine link=1258308719/0#10 date=1260907946]I use a website called flightaware. com. I imagine they are company routes because they never change from day to day. The routes that I fly are the same as they were a month ago as long as you get them from the same airline. Other airlines use constant but different routes.[/quote]Unfortunately I can only get flights that cover the United States on flightaware.com

For example. I do a search for a QANTAS flight (QFA107) from Sydney (YSSY) to Los Angeles (KLAX) and all I ever get is the route from KLAX to KJFK. On the reverse lookup (QFA108) KLAX to YSSY it once again only shows me the route from KJFK to KLAX. So I never end up with a Company Route for that goes from the US to Aus. :(

Mark

[i]EDIT: I take it back. I just did another search and when I clicked on the flight it gave me the US - AUS flight plan AND vice-versa. Must have been a timing issue.[/i] LOL
  

Mark Fletcher



PC: i7 10700K @3.8/5.1GHz | 64GB DDR4 3200 | 12GB RTX 4070 Super | 32" LCD Monitor | 1TB SSD + 2TB SSD + 2TB HDD | Win 11 Pro
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
AABoeing
Full Member
*
Offline



Posts: 219
Location: Texas
Joined: Oct 9th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Planning a Transatlantic Route Tutorial
Reply #12 - Dec 16th, 2009 at 2:02am
Print Post  
I can't find the 767 data on flightaware.com. can somebody help with this?  Sad
  

Alex
CFI/CFII
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
scandinavian13
Full Member
*
Offline



Posts: 40
Joined: Apr 2nd, 2007
Re: Planning a Transatlantic Route Tutorial
Reply #13 - Dec 16th, 2009 at 9:07pm
Print Post  
aaboeing,

I'm confused as to what you're asking for, but I'll attempt to provide you what you're looking for.

Flightaware. com is not going to give you files to download for your 767.  Furthermore, it isn't a site on which you're going to go find 767-specific data.  The suggestion to use the site is to provide you with aircraft routing.  On the start page, on the left, you can type in either a flight number or a departure airport.  The search results will then show you various flights (or the specific flight you searched).  Once you select a flight (or the specific flight) is displayed, on the right side, it will show the route.  Here are some pre-defined searches for you:

Recent Boeing 767-200 flights:
http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B762
Recent Boeing 767-300 flights:
http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B763

As an example, if you click on AAL458 (a 763 flight), you will get this page:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL458
On the right side of the page, you will see a section marked "Route," which displays the route of SFO8 SFO LIN JSICA ILC BCE RSK J58 FTI TXO FUZ J58 HRV Q105 REDFN Q105 BLVNS Q102 CYY SSCOT1.

You would then enter SFO LIN JSICA ILC BCE RSK J58 FTI TXO FUZ J58 HRV Q105 REDFN Q105 BLVNS Q102 CYY into your ROUTE page.  A company route may then be created by saving the route in the FMS via the appropriate function.  You may then select the SFO8 departure and the SSCOT1 arrival on the DEP/ARR page to complete your plan.

To re-iterate, Flightaware. com is only a resource by which you may find flight plans submitted by the airlines, and may then use those plans, entered into the FMS, to create saved Company Routes in the FMS.

Cheers,
Kyle
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board  ^Top