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 10 FMC Tutorial Section Question (Read 7500 times)
Tim Capps
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FMC Tutorial Section Question
Nov 15th, 2009 at 4:01pm
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I am working on the FMC section of the tutorial for the 767.  What would you like covered in it?  Right now I have covered inserting company routes and flight plans, fixing initial position, filling out the PERF INIT & takeoff pages with a section on how to find the numbers to put in for Gross Weight.

I am adding a section on alternative route entry, to include the kind of routes you get from simroutes and just waypoint by waypoint.

My goal is to familiarize new Captains with the aircraft to the extent they can follow a simple tutorial flight.  Just so I don't leave out something important, what else should go in it?

Also, I am doing it in Microsoft Word with many illustrations.  Is there any way if I export it to a web page I can host it somewhere.  Eventually I'm going to have to set up my own website.
  

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Bobby Singh
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Re: FMC Tutorial Section Question
Reply #1 - Nov 15th, 2009 at 11:15pm
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Sounds like you are covering quite a bit. Speaking of what I have experienced when I got my first aircraft from CS, I felt very frustrated due to lack of such a tutorial that you are putting together. So, thank you for that.
One thing I would like is to make the CS aircraft work with canned ATC. Plan the flight in fsx and then import it in FMC. After takeoff, how do I engage FMC route? After decending, when ATC instructs to make a final turn towards the runway, when exactly do I engage localizer and approach for auto landing.
  
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Tim Capps
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Re: FMC Tutorial Section Question
Reply #2 - Nov 16th, 2009 at 12:08am
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Let me try to help to tide you over.

You can import a flight plan, which will cover the canned ATC of your choice.  If it is correctly loaded into the FMC, all you do is hit the center autopilot button, then VNAV and LNAV after you take off.  It will go up to whatever you have set on your MCP's altitude window. and follow the route in the FMC.  When it comes time to make your approach, just engage your localilzer when you are on on a heading to intercept the extended centerline of the runway you're landing on.  Make sure the ILS window on the pedestal is showing the correct frequence for your runway, and you have the right course dialed in.

Then just watch the glideslope indicator.  (You must be intercepting from below.)  When it starts to go down, hit the approach button to capture the glideslope.  Should work.
  

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Bobby Singh
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Re: FMC Tutorial Section Question
Reply #3 - Nov 16th, 2009 at 5:27pm
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Thanks, I will try this exactly as you mentioned. BTW, I have tried this before but not exactly the way you described. Used VNAV LNAV with left autopilot button but the plane kept going straight and up. Turns out that the first waypoint was exactly on the south side while I was flying north because of the allocated runway. As soon as I followed ATC advice to take southern heading, I was able to capture it.

Also, besides helping me tide over, if you can add this little piece in your tutorial, perhaps, this will not get asked over and over again in the forums.
  
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Tim Capps
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Re: FMC Tutorial Section Question
Reply #4 - Nov 16th, 2009 at 9:41pm
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It is very unusual to have a departure that would take you north and expect an exact pivot to head back 180 degrees over the takeoff runway's centerline again!  Of course due to winds, layouts, etc. it could very well be that you take of in one direction and head toward another behind you, but most Standard Instrument Departures will have a procedure turn at worst, which your airplane is perfectly capable of performing on its own.  There are also conditional procedures where the airplane must be at a certain altitude before turning, etc.  Hard to say what was going on with yours.

Were you using a SID?  If so, what one?  I don't think it should really matter which button you push.  Did your Primary Navigational Display -- the one with the artificial horizon -- change to show a new mode?  It will start out in TO mode, which, unless I'm mistaken, does keep you on level, climbing flight until some other mode takes over.

I want to make sure I know what the problem is so I can best assist.
  

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Bobby Singh
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Re: FMC Tutorial Section Question
Reply #5 - Nov 17th, 2009 at 1:03am
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I just created a IFR flight plan from Seattle to Dallas Love using FS. No Dep/Arr so no SIDs and STARs. That way I could pretty much use any runway assignment for departure and arrival. I could see the route legs after I imported FS plan into FMC. The first waypoint I got was in southern proximity of my assigned 34 R for takeoff heading north.
So when I was about 400 ft, I engaged, VNAV and LNAV. VNAV did its job as after establishing +ve rate of climb, my speed was controlled. But I kept heading northward. So I switched to ATC departure frequency and switched from LNAV to the heading I was assigned. After I had made the U turn of sorts, I engaged LNAV again, just to see what happens and sure enough the plane headed towards the first waypoint. From there on the plane followed the route until it was T/D time except that it was ATC that guided me through step descending. I stopped following FMC from there on and just relied on ATC for my headings, frequencies and final approach. Managed a solid landing capturing glideslope but was still unsure about when exactly should I have engaged localizer and approach plus my rate of descend was messy from T/D as I was anxious to get to the assigned altitudes quickly.

  
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Tim Capps
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Re: FMC Tutorial Section Question
Reply #6 - Nov 17th, 2009 at 4:36am
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You want to be at 10,000 & 250 coming into your destination airport.  Here's a tip I learned from Captain Mike Ray's excellent Flying the 700 Series (a good investment, as is his 757/767 book).

Go to the FIX page (hit the FIX key) and place your destination airport in there (e.g. EGLL).  Type /30 in the scratch pad and put it in RAD/DIS line.  A green circle with a radius of 30 miles will automagically appear on your HSI.  This makes it easy to monitor your descent.  I do this routinely.  I just make sure when I cross that magic circle, I am at 10,000 feet and 250 kts.  That gives me plenty of time to do whatever I have to do to have a nice landing.

As for the other issue, I can't say I have ever experienced, but I use SIDs and STARs always.  It may be that the autopilot prefers to be going in the proper general direction before engaging; I don't know.  If that is the case, simply follow ATC until you're pointed in the right direction, more or less, then hit LNAV when it says "resume own navigation."

You might consider trying out SIDs and STARs.  It is more realistic, and kind of fun to watch the autopilot follow a complex procedure.  It is more fun when you have plotted your bearings to various nav aids and are double-checking your progress, ready to take over in case of a glitch.  Also, real pilots (at least some of them) use the altitude window on the MCP to put a ceiling on their ascent, so they can never bust an altitude restriction.  Up to you.

The third-party Radar Contact canned ATC will leave you alone to follow SIDs and STARs.  It is a product well worth having for flying like this.  FSX ATC will mess you up more often than not.

As for picking a SID, there are a couple of things I do.  One is cheat.  Just go into FSX weather and set the winds coming from the direction you want to take off into.  If you want to use runway 27, set the winds at 270.  The other way is to listen to find out what the active runway is, then select your SID.  Unless things change on you, you're in good shape.  (Even then you just have to change SID's -- annoying, but probably happens in real life, too.)
  

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Bobby Singh
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Re: FMC Tutorial Section Question
Reply #7 - Nov 18th, 2009 at 6:13pm
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Thanks for the good tips. I will certainly use FIX button to facilitate my descent rate.

I have been doing SIDs and STARs on all my flights since I bought CS aircraft and before that it was just stock planes in FS with ATC and GPS.
CS is highly realistic but in real world, the pilots do follow ATC and make changes on routes on the fly and for arrival/departures if they have to. The main problem I have with SID and STAR's is that the realism of ATC is missing. Choosing a departure still works but arrival is hit and miss. A lot of times I have ended up landing on a same runway where there is another aircraft coming from the opposite side. Kinda takes the fun out of perfect landing. Also, changing wind direction is doable cheat but still takes the fun out of realism. Realistic weather is more fun.

Another problem with SID/STAR approach is that navigraph data is also limited. I do most of my flying within US using navigraph data and roughly 20% of airports are missing. Some of these missing airports have wonderful departure/arrival scenery.   

As far as Radar Contact is concerned, if there is a way for me to figure out my landing runway even 200 miles from the destination airport using RC, so that I have enough time to program my FMC, that will convince me to buy it. Otherwise my stock ATC doesn't bother me as well when it comes to using my SID's and STAR's. I can just tune out of it.
  
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Tim Capps
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Re: FMC Tutorial Section Question
Reply #8 - Nov 19th, 2009 at 7:04am
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you can choose your landing runway with Radar Contact (and your takeoff one, for that matter)

unless you set the wind, however, you're likely to run into oncoming traffic

there are just compromises that have to be made... but everyone has their own level of abstraction they're comfortable with... I know FSX's limitations and am content to work within them
  

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Re: FMC Tutorial Section Question
Reply #9 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 10:11pm
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Look forward to seeing your effort!  May I suggest setting up a Google Groups site.  Cheers!
  

I don't need no stinkin' GPS!
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Matt2218
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Re: FMC Tutorial Section Question
Reply #10 - Dec 15th, 2009 at 12:13am
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Tim;

One data point you might want to include in your documentation is that the FMC doesn't seem to like to 'activate' FSX-generated routes with only 2 points (departure and destination).

I tried a simple KIAD-KLAX direct as a test subject and spent awhile banging my head on the desk Smiley
  
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