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Max Gross Weight question (Read 8148 times)
Beachdog2001
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Max Gross Weight question
Jun 13th, 2009 at 2:48am
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My CS757-200 V4.3 aircraft.cfg lists the gross max weight as 221,000 lbs. and indeed that is the max that is allowed in the FSX load planning page.  In the manuals etc. I have seen up to 255,000 lbs and I have a feeling that 221,000 is too light as at this weight the FMC is calling for a initial cruising altitude of 35,000' with 37,000' 500 nm later.  This just can't be right.  What is it supposed to be and can I just change the aircraft.cfg number to a higher perhaps more correct value or will that throw off the entire performance.

Also, the OEW if 115,000 lbs seems lighter than most numbers that I have seen that are closer to 136,000 lbs.

In the manual is that statement that the max weight can range anywhere from 220,000 to 255,000 lbs.  No other expalnation is given.

Another important spec is the max zero fuel weight that this model uses.  I haven't been able to find this in the manuals.  It is an important number as this limits the amount of cargo and passengers that can be carried independent of the fuel.  This number is also critical so that you don't land with too high of a landing weight.  By the way, that is another critical number that I can't seem to find, the max landing weight.  Maybe it is in the manual and I just missed it.

Can anyone help with this? Undecided
  

Bill Barrette&&P4 3.2 GHz HT, 2 GB RAM, nVidia 7600GS 512MB AGP, WinXP SP3, FSX SP2&&
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Tim Capps
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Re: Max Gross Weight question
Reply #1 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 6:48am
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Check Part III P. 4.

max  taxi (MTW) = 221.000 lbs
max take off (MTOW = 220,000 lbs
max landing (MLW) = 198,000 lbs
maz zero fuel weight (MZFW) = 184,000

The best thing I did was print the manual.
  

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Beachdog2001
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Re: Max Gross Weight question
Reply #2 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:41am
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Yeah, thanks for those numbers, I think that I saw them earlier actually.  I had a look at the Boeing website and there were 5 versions of the 757-200 built going from 221,000 MTOW/184,000 MZFW, which is like the CS 757 to 256,000 lbs MTOW/188,000 MZFW.  The OEW for the CS version is 134,090 lbs not 115,000 as in the aircraft.cfg.  Also the seating is supposed to 186 (170 economy/16 first class) not 172 pax as in the CS.

If the OEW is 115,000 lbs, which is what the aircraft.cfg says, that means that we could add in 69,000 lbs of stuff.  That is a really high number. A more typical number is 40-50,000 lbs.  A full load of pax (172) is only 25,000 lbs.  In fact, the Boeing website lists the max payload as 49,910 lbs.

I was looking at several flightaware flights today going from the US east coast to EHAM, which I did in the sim today, and sure enough, they go right up to FL370 and then 390 and the landing speeds are in the 125 kt range, which I thought was a little low.  So I guess this is normal for the 757.   No tellling how loaded they were though.  Perhaps I am too used to the 767. Grin

I guess the main thing is what happens if we modify the OEW and max weight in the aircraft.cfg.  Guess it wouldn't hurt to try it out and see.

Anyone tried this?
  

Bill Barrette&&P4 3.2 GHz HT, 2 GB RAM, nVidia 7600GS 512MB AGP, WinXP SP3, FSX SP2&&
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Tim Capps
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Re: Max Gross Weight question
Reply #3 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:06pm
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It is true that Captain Sim has weights are somewhat different from real world weights.  Since I assume CS would be as able to discover the real weights as you or I, I am also assuming this was a design decision made for reasons I could not even begin to guess about.

I am also assuming that having chosen those weights they designed the aircfraft to operate properly around them.  Since operating within those parameters is working for me, I would have to be convinced otherwise.

I usually make fairly short hops, because with everything else I am doing with this a/c right now, I would need 48 hours every day!  So I'm fairly light, and my vref is surprisingly low, but seems to work.

If you want to edit your weights, you're a braver man than I  Shocked
  

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Beachdog2001
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Re: Max Gross Weight question
Reply #4 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:29pm
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Well, one of the problems I am having is that the aircraft has been a real bear to hand fly, like it is too light etc. so I thought that this might be why.

However, I have discovered with this power running out problem, the so called "APU problem" which is nothing to do with the APU as it happens if ground power or the APU is on, if you reload the aircraft from a saved flight after this happens, as I did so as not to have to re-enter everything from scratch again, the aircraft only gets loaded up with 5,000 lbs of payload!  Didn't catch this the first few times around.  

You know you have this problem when the bank angle indicator suddenly starts to slowly rotate towards a 45 degree bank angle, for me usually just as I am pushing back Angry.  When this happens you know you are cooked, you can't start the engines, APU shuts itself off and an aircraft or saved flight reload is the only solution.

This loss of electrical power really is an insidous and hateful problem  Grin.  I hope this gets fixed right away.

Note to CS:

Fix the loads not loading correctly when loading a saved flight and/or reloading the same aircraft.

Of course, it could just be me Huh
  

Bill Barrette&&P4 3.2 GHz HT, 2 GB RAM, nVidia 7600GS 512MB AGP, WinXP SP3, FSX SP2&&
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Tim Capps
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Re: Max Gross Weight question
Reply #5 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 11:14pm
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I loaded up this afternoon to find my last load still there.  I thought ACE reset, but I have all my pax still from my last flight, and it wasn't saved -- just the same airplane.

Have you tried starting your right engine even after the artificial horizon tilts on GPU?  Worked for me.

Agreed this is a problem.  Might take a little longer than 20 minutes, because I usually start 30 minutes before scheduled departure and push and start five before, but close enough.  I would pay to register FSUPIC if it would fix it.
  

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Re: Max Gross Weight question
Reply #6 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 11:16pm
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Yeah, today I tired to stat after the horizon indicator tilted.  The problem is the APU turns off and won't restart and the engines won't restart either.
  

Bill Barrette&&P4 3.2 GHz HT, 2 GB RAM, nVidia 7600GS 512MB AGP, WinXP SP3, FSX SP2&&
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Tim Capps
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Re: Max Gross Weight question
Reply #7 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 11:19pm
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If you want, you can try GPU from beginning, just forgetting the APU entirely.  When I did that this morning although the bug struck (I have Flight Keeper, so I get an alarm and the copilot comments) and the artificial horizon tilted, I could still start the engine since I had bleed air and power.  Why that would be, I don't know.  I'll perform the same experiment now just to make sure.
  

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Beachdog2001
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Re: Max Gross Weight question
Reply #8 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 11:29pm
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Gawd, I hope that is not the fix.  I just hate firing up the engines at the gate.  It is so bloody unrealistic.  But if that is what we have to do then I guess we have to do it. Grin
  

Bill Barrette&&P4 3.2 GHz HT, 2 GB RAM, nVidia 7600GS 512MB AGP, WinXP SP3, FSX SP2&&
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Tim Capps
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Re: Max Gross Weight question
Reply #9 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 11:51pm
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I forget which thread I posted it in (been a busy beaver trying to nail down everything for a review that I know I'm gonna get crucified for if I fail to mention a displaced rivet).  But there was a pilot fired for not flying with an inop APU.  So I don't know if they cleared him at the gate or pushed him somewhere, but he fired up with the GPU.

Frankly this is the one issue that still bothers me a bit.  Not a whole lot, because I am usually done anyway, but it is something hard to excuse at this stage.  And playing with the loader is going to take more time on freight flights!

I have tried to follow the VNAV complaints to the best of my ability and just can't get worked up over them because of the the way I fly.  I rarely find myself changing published approaches at the last minute because I just let Radar Contact vector me, or make the concession to plan the whole route in advance and stick to it, realizing that in real life I would have another person to share the workload with.  "Realism" comes in different flavors.  VNAV is not the only terminal descent automation there is.

Like with anything else, it all comes down to what you like and what concessions you are prepared to make.  If I were really into VNAV all the way and it was that important to me, then I'm sure I would be more sensitive to any complications.

ADDITIONAL:  Using GPU only, you can start engines any time, even after artificial horizon tilts.
  

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