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 10 727-100 Pro Pack first impressions (Read 10189 times)
Bob Markey
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727-100 Pro Pack first impressions
Jan 30th, 2009 at 7:30am
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First impressions...

No manual for systems makes the old seven-two a little hard to get going.  I got to the point where I thought I had everything off that should be off, and everything on that should be on, but despite having air from APU i couldn't get engines to turn.

I gave up and used Control-E, and this got it all going.  Then I could get engines to turn from shutdown, but never fire despite igniter and fuel levers in start (or idle) positions.

Forgot to check fuel before maiden voyage or set crossfeeds, and had a #1 and #3 out of fuel on short final.  Touched about 50 feet ahead of threshold, but she still settled down like I expected she should.

After so many hours pushing the 757 down ramp, I was shocked by how well the 727 scoots along the asphalt.  If you nail the throttles to the firewall, I think she'd push you through the seat!  Is it me, or does this seem to be too much power, or just my perspective from flying something 200+klbs?

She's very steady on the controls.  Unlike another poster, I don't think the trim is too sensitive, all it needs is a blip here and there.

My #1 kudos for the model is in one single gauge.  Nice work on the VSI Captain Sim.  It's refreshing to find a plane in flight sim that doesn't start showing you rate of climb before you've attained it.  It was nice to think I would get out of the habit of watching VSI instead of altimeter when looking for climb/descent conditions near level.

I can't wait to spend more time with her, but my bedtime is now 1.5 hours past and unfortunately it's a work day in 8 hours. Cheesy

I can wait for an SP release to fix the things I noted were not functioning, but I hope not to wait so very long.  I want my checklists, I want my WX Radar screen, and I want my flight control and reverser animations working.  Also noted that gauge backgrounds will illuminate in "Day" time, but not at "Night" time, even with every light on every panel set to ON.

Great work guys, can't wait to see it in full bloom!  Grin
  

NOTE: I'm on hiatus, concentrating on flight training.  Most of what I'm flying right now is a C172N similar to what I'm training in.  I'll try to check in and answer questions when I can, but please don't be impatient, I have other priorities right now! Cheesy&&&&I'm not a professional pilot, but I play one on the Internet!&&&&Captain Sim 757-200/-300/Freighter FSX (62.51 hours)&&Captain Sim 727-100 FSX (26.74 hours)&&Captain Sim C-130 X-perience FSX (15.05 hours)&&Hours last updated Aug 29, 2009 18:44Z.&&&&System: AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-core 2.5Ghz, 8GB RAM, nVidia 9600GT 512MB, Windows XP 64-bit, FS9/FSX, Saitek Pro Flight Yoke System, CH Pro Pedals&&&&Join us on the Ultimate Global Tour FSHost Server - 3000 Flight Plans to every country on every continent.  FSX users will need FSHostClient to connect.
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Captain Sim 2
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Re: 727-100 Pro Pack first impressions
Reply #1 - Jan 30th, 2009 at 11:39am
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Thank you for kind comments.

Bob Markey wrote on Jan 30th, 2009 at 7:30am:
No manual for systems makes the old seven-two a little hard to get going.


The Manual Part II is already available.
  
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Bob Markey
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Re: 727-100 Pro Pack first impressions
Reply #2 - Jan 30th, 2009 at 8:01pm
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Thanks for this.  I know I can be impatient.  And I don't want to violate rules begging for when Part III will be available.  So for now, I sit on my hands and hope I'm doing it all right. Cheesy
  

NOTE: I'm on hiatus, concentrating on flight training.  Most of what I'm flying right now is a C172N similar to what I'm training in.  I'll try to check in and answer questions when I can, but please don't be impatient, I have other priorities right now! Cheesy&&&&I'm not a professional pilot, but I play one on the Internet!&&&&Captain Sim 757-200/-300/Freighter FSX (62.51 hours)&&Captain Sim 727-100 FSX (26.74 hours)&&Captain Sim C-130 X-perience FSX (15.05 hours)&&Hours last updated Aug 29, 2009 18:44Z.&&&&System: AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-core 2.5Ghz, 8GB RAM, nVidia 9600GT 512MB, Windows XP 64-bit, FS9/FSX, Saitek Pro Flight Yoke System, CH Pro Pedals&&&&Join us on the Ultimate Global Tour FSHost Server - 3000 Flight Plans to every country on every continent.  FSX users will need FSHostClient to connect.
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Re: 727-100 Pro Pack first impressions
Reply #3 - Jan 31st, 2009 at 1:15pm
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Bob Markey wrote on Jan 30th, 2009 at 7:30am:
First impressions...

Is it me, or does this seem to be too much power, or just my perspective from flying something 200+klbs?

She's very steady on the controls.  Unlike another poster, I don't think the trim is too sensitive, all it needs is a blip here and there.


Actually, yes. The 727 was very powerful, even the heavier 200. And this is the smaller and lighter 100, so it has got a hell of a thrust in the back for its weight.

And yes, the 727 is a dream to fly with, because it is a very balanced aircraft. The only one, who could mess all up is the pilot....  Grin

I had no problems with starting the engines (followed the Dreamfleets 727 checklist). Couldnt fly her so far, but gonna try it out tomorrow!

Love the VC, really nice work!!!!!  Cheesy
Waiting now for the 200-model.  Smiley
  

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Re: 727-100 Pro Pack first impressions
Reply #4 - Jan 31st, 2009 at 1:44pm
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Hello all  Smiley

Here my findings after 3 flights so far but for first :

THANK you CAPTAIN SIM; for me this is another outstanding
Product and an excellent Artwork at all; what a beautifull VC, can not
stop watching the throttle panel in VC - looks amazing- well done !!

OK back to my findings :
I think the VSI  (as told in some other threads) is not working correct.
If i doeing ( for testing ) a rocket dive or a rocket climb the VSI
stucks around 500-800 feet and should read around 4000 feet
in this situation. So...............
Next 2 parts are the Annunciators for the Approach
and the doors.
If the plane catching a LOC or GS i didn`t see any Light coming up
therefor - the same with the doors.
No opened door is lightning up in the respective Annunciator Panel
and this is what it should do......or not ??

If i push the Test Button near the Approach Annunciator Panel the lights are working - so i am a bit confused here.
So here my quick question to other users who uses the Add On:
Are there more out there with the non flashing Annunciator Panels ??

But anyway great work from CS  Cheesy

regards
Mario Görs  Wink
  

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Re: 727-100 Pro Pack first impressions
Reply #5 - Jan 31st, 2009 at 6:15pm
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Ok, i made a test flight and i have a LOT of thing to address to:

- EPR is completly wrong, normal T/O EPR is about 2.00 for engines 1 & 3 and 2.02 for engine 2 (with eng 2 bleed / apu bleed off)

- VSI is indicating wrong

- There is no strobe-light switch (theyre linked to beacon), but there should be one

- The continous Ignition Switch moves back to ON when the cap is closed (should be the other way)

- Flight Director doesnt work at all, and the quickinfo from the FD-Mode switches reads "autopilot", which is wrong

- Autopilot cant be engaged (even with Y/D on)

- Door Lights only work in test-mode

- L/E Flap-Light goes amber, even when theyre fully deployed (e.g. if you extend from 15° to 30°)

- The right Pitot-Heat operates both of them (left & right), but light stays on (which would be correct, but left AC would read 0 / if you operate the left alone, AC still reads 0)

- The green Standby-Hydraulic-Light doesnt come on when Alternate-Flap System is used

- Temperature Control Panel (means all switches) dont work

- When CSD switches are moved to "Rise", the readings go off-scale

- Engines are indeed too powerful!

- Pitch Trim Wheel turns way to slow, Pitch Trim itself moves to fast


Flightdynamics seem to be ok. And it really lacks of some real 727 sounds (in- and outside)!!!  Undecided

I hope that you guys from CS will address those bugs! Otherwise its not going to be any fun to fly this wonderful bird!

And if I can help in any way, just let me know. Im not a real 727-Pilot. But Ive made a many hours on the Dreamfleets 727, which still is the best simulated 727 the FS-Pilot can have, and i know this bird by mind.  Wink
  

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Bob Markey
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Re: 727-100 Pro Pack first impressions
Reply #6 - Jan 31st, 2009 at 7:37pm
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After a couple 200+nm flight, I will concur, VSI is not as to be expected.  I never seen it register over 800, even after a FSPassengers-X test of explosive decompression by opening main door at FL290, followed by a quick dive to 10,000.   It never showed more than 800 descent, but FSPX informs me I exceeded 6000 fpm descent.

I also concur EPR appears wrong below high altitude, I can't seem to make it go over about 1.5 even exceeding N1/N2 speeds when on the ground, and also only noticed it rise much over that when at FL300 and then it was over 2.00 with about 90% N1 speed.

My Altitude alert does Chord as would expect.

As Finn points out, Cont Ign switch not only flips to "ON" but sticks out the edge of the cover.

My flight director does seem to work when it's mode is selected in sensible fashion, but if I turn heading bug to the left, FD indicates I should turn to the right.

My AP does engage.  Remember one must have AIL control on before ELV control will engage.  A couple notes on the AP:
- I note even with pitch computer disengaged, AP keeps overriding my pitch inputs and trims, trimming back (slowly) to where trim was when I turned on AIL computer.
- I note also that the VC pitch/roll input is unusable, as any motion seems to be interpreted both as a roll and pitch command.  I must pop out the 2D panel and undock to my extra monitor.
- Another thing, in VC, the AIL control is labelled incorrectly "ALT".  2D pop-up is labelled accurately.

AP does work otherwise, so long as I'm willing to only go full disengage for alt changes, I thought this should give me some control over pitch when ELV disengaged, but maybe incorrect.

I don't notice sounds that go missing, but I do notice that one of the APU background sounds never stops after APU shut down.  Also notice some engine whine sounds continue after engine shut down.

I notice Duct Temp reads zero in the far right position until clicked, and this leaves it in #3 duct but then registers a temp.  After this, it doesn't show 0 again during normal situation.

I notice fuel dump door can be closed with switches in the "on" position, notice inside the door the 3 blocks mounted to the door, this prevents door from being closed if fuel dump any switch enabled.  Should maybe change door open animation to "bounce open" if one tries to close it with those switches "on".

I concur on cabin temps panel, clicking knobs gets a "double click" sound and my pax and crew are freezing to death at 0C and nothing I can do for them. Smiley

I can connect ext power, both in Shift-1 button panel and in FE's ground power switch.

Trim wheels do seem to turn microscopic amounts, instead of seeing the white mark come around several times like one might think.  Pitch trim is a little touchy after further time spent, but if one is patient, the plane will trim out.

I'll be happy for the sounds when they come, but for now I won't gripe about something as simple when the rest are so great. Cheesy

Only 727's I've flew in sim are freeware variants that left far more to be desired, and I drool over CS' level of detail inside and out.

I can't wait for several things to be improved, but I can keep flying as-is until they are, the only thing aggrivating me most right now is the VSI condition.  Angry
  

NOTE: I'm on hiatus, concentrating on flight training.  Most of what I'm flying right now is a C172N similar to what I'm training in.  I'll try to check in and answer questions when I can, but please don't be impatient, I have other priorities right now! Cheesy&&&&I'm not a professional pilot, but I play one on the Internet!&&&&Captain Sim 757-200/-300/Freighter FSX (62.51 hours)&&Captain Sim 727-100 FSX (26.74 hours)&&Captain Sim C-130 X-perience FSX (15.05 hours)&&Hours last updated Aug 29, 2009 18:44Z.&&&&System: AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-core 2.5Ghz, 8GB RAM, nVidia 9600GT 512MB, Windows XP 64-bit, FS9/FSX, Saitek Pro Flight Yoke System, CH Pro Pedals&&&&Join us on the Ultimate Global Tour FSHost Server - 3000 Flight Plans to every country on every continent.  FSX users will need FSHostClient to connect.
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Re: 727-100 Pro Pack first impressions
Reply #7 - Jan 31st, 2009 at 9:39pm
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After a re-Install of my 727 Altitude-Alert & Ext.-Power are somehow working now!

The AP is now working too. But its because of the Avionics-Master which was OFF in my FS. Didnt notice, because the 727 havnt got a Avionics-Master Switch.  Roll Eyes
The FD is showing up, but it didnt really work how it should have. But Ive to test this again.


Ive found another bug; When I do a right turn, the bank-indicator (the white triangle at the top of the attitude-indicator) gets stuck at about 28° when turning more than that. On a left turn everything is fine.
And somehow my gear-door lights are always ON, all of them.

Maybe I have to explain a bit more about the CSD-Rise Problem:
If the switches are in "Rise" position, they show the difference between the incoming and outgoing oil-temperature in the CSD-Generator. In the CS727, the indicator doenst go "off-scale" literally, but it goes to the right-limit of the gauge, which would be too hot and may destroy the generator. So it has to be another bug.

And sometimes my FS closes when selecting the 727, or when changing something in the options while a flight with the 727 has been loaded.

EDIT: Aileron-Animation is missing! They dont move....
  

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Re: 727-100 Pro Pack first impressions
Reply #8 - Feb 2nd, 2009 at 1:49pm
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Thank you for your reports.
But please note - this forum is not for technical support. For technical support please check-in to Your Profile and use Customer Support link for issues reporting.
  
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Bob Markey
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Re: 727-100 Pro Pack first impressions
Reply #9 - Feb 2nd, 2009 at 5:05pm
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CS, yes.  Understood.  Mainly I started this thread just to tell about what I liked or noticed wrong, but I think mostly we (the community) are just trying to compare notes on what we see are issues.  I did submit a ticket just earlier with a lot of the "top list" of things that are bugging me most which I want to see repaired in the first SP.

Thanks so much. Smiley
  

NOTE: I'm on hiatus, concentrating on flight training.  Most of what I'm flying right now is a C172N similar to what I'm training in.  I'll try to check in and answer questions when I can, but please don't be impatient, I have other priorities right now! Cheesy&&&&I'm not a professional pilot, but I play one on the Internet!&&&&Captain Sim 757-200/-300/Freighter FSX (62.51 hours)&&Captain Sim 727-100 FSX (26.74 hours)&&Captain Sim C-130 X-perience FSX (15.05 hours)&&Hours last updated Aug 29, 2009 18:44Z.&&&&System: AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-core 2.5Ghz, 8GB RAM, nVidia 9600GT 512MB, Windows XP 64-bit, FS9/FSX, Saitek Pro Flight Yoke System, CH Pro Pedals&&&&Join us on the Ultimate Global Tour FSHost Server - 3000 Flight Plans to every country on every continent.  FSX users will need FSHostClient to connect.
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Re: 727-100 Pro Pack first impressions
Reply #10 - Feb 3rd, 2009 at 8:05am
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Dear Bob and all,

Thank you for understanding Smiley We appreciate the feedback, but if you indeed have issues you consider to be bugs, please follow the ticket submission procedures.
  
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Bob Markey
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Re: 727-100 Pro Pack first impressions
Reply #11 - Feb 3rd, 2009 at 8:18pm
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Another that I'm adding to the list here and in my open ticket...

It appears the 2D panel pop-ups use a much "brighter" base texture than the default "fs9gps" pop-up, and with the panel.cfg set to :

Night=4,4,4
Luminous=128,0,0

It is impossible to see the buttons on the GPS pop-up.  I changed mine last night to brighter colors for "Night" but didn't change the luminous setting at all.  The Night setting I used is the same as the default CRJ700, and this makes all the panels look a little more red when lights are off, but they look more normal when lights are on (though still a little red, this of course because the setting I used is heavier to the red spectrum).  With lights on, now the AP and radio and such are just slightly redder, but the GPS is bright enough without changing the Luminous setting such that I can see where the buttons are and read the text on them.
  

NOTE: I'm on hiatus, concentrating on flight training.  Most of what I'm flying right now is a C172N similar to what I'm training in.  I'll try to check in and answer questions when I can, but please don't be impatient, I have other priorities right now! Cheesy&&&&I'm not a professional pilot, but I play one on the Internet!&&&&Captain Sim 757-200/-300/Freighter FSX (62.51 hours)&&Captain Sim 727-100 FSX (26.74 hours)&&Captain Sim C-130 X-perience FSX (15.05 hours)&&Hours last updated Aug 29, 2009 18:44Z.&&&&System: AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-core 2.5Ghz, 8GB RAM, nVidia 9600GT 512MB, Windows XP 64-bit, FS9/FSX, Saitek Pro Flight Yoke System, CH Pro Pedals&&&&Join us on the Ultimate Global Tour FSHost Server - 3000 Flight Plans to every country on every continent.  FSX users will need FSHostClient to connect.
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