Just had my first flight after almost a 2-year absence. How do I stop it yawing left-right when in climb using AP?

Greetings,

This should only occur on higher altitudes and higher Gross Weights.

To eliminate this, open the aircraft.cfg and go to the section

[flight_tuning]

Increase the value of

roll_stability=1.0

to 1.5

Greetings, Mustang1972(hope that refers to that beautiful car?)

Thanks for that.I was only doing a test flight to Poland, and had laden with full fuel, but I could barely climb and was at under 10k when it started.

Will do.

EDIT: Do not have that entry in the 707-300C aircraft.cfg.

Colvale wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 8:27pm:

Greetings, Mustang1972(hope that refers to that beautiful car?) Thanks for that.I was only doing a test flight to Poland, and had laden with full fuel, but I could barely climb and was at under 10k when it started. Will do. EDIT: Do not have that entry in the 707-300C aircraft.cfg.

This is from my 707-300C aircraft.cfg:

[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar=1.000
pitch_stability=1.000
roll_stability=1.000
yaw_stability=1.000
parasite_drag_scalar=1.000
induced_drag_scalar=1.000
elevator_effectiveness=1.000
aileron_effectiveness=1.000
rudder_effectiveness=1.000
elevator_trim_effectiveness=1.000
aileron_trim_effectiveness=1.000
rudder_trim_effectiveness=1.000

So it should be there! ;)

Found it.

Thanks, Mark.

Colvale wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 8:27pm:

Greetings, Mustang1972(hope that refers to that beautiful car?)

Hello hello  :) - yes it does, but not only. My first bicycle was a "Mustang" (of course with the lettering and the horse), I guess that was the origin  ;)

Landing with full fuel could be dangerous, particularly with much payload. I hope you've keep this in mind.

PS: Sorry for Doublepost, but there was an error with the Connection.

Hello Mustang1972

Had never even heard of a bicycle called Mustang before. The 1972 handle immediately gave me a clue it had to be a car(drool, drool!!).

As it was only a short circuit to familiarise myself with this plane after having been away from it for 2-3 years, I immediately realised that the fuel load was way too much.

Just tried another flight today with 2000kgs each tank for a 900-mile flight to Poland, but could not get any thrust whatsoever on take-off. It just would not lift at all even though the IAS gauge was shown to be increasing.

Any ideas?

EDIT:
Discovered why I had no thrust. The oil pressure in Eng 1+4 were on red light. How do I ensure that the oil pressure is up?

I never had problems with the oil pressure  :-?

Have you got a constant fuelflow to all engines?

Maybe there could also be a problem with the fuelbalance/fuelmanagement. Check the Fuelpanel. I recommend 25 % IN EACH Tank for short flights / testflights.

And, of course, this old lady eat runways for breakfast xD  ;D - particularly with high GW, there you need 10K Feet Minimum. I've done a start on a 8000 Feet RW with Full Fuelload but very few payload (no wind). It was very close. At the end there are no high obstacles allowed  ;D

Don't forget to activate the brakes while you push up the pressure to 2.0, then release the brakes.

I had 29% in each tank, fuel flow switches were all in-line.
Was taking off from Rwy 5L at EGCC, which is an International Airport and is replicated exactly by UK2000 scenery, so it was not a lack of Rwy length.

Which brakes and which pressure to 2.0? The parking brakes or the Pneumatic Brake?

I'm baffled with this plane, or the freighter version, -300C.

After previous issues with with engines 1+4, or 1+2 not firing up due to a low oil pressure warning, I opted for a engines running scenario and take-off from the runway.

No cargo, 30% fuel in each tank, yet I could not climb to cruise despite trimming for 2000fpm, nor could I get a decent cruise speed.Gave up at 13000 and settled at that CL till I descended and completed the flight.

I think I'll park this plane in FSX-SE, at least, for a while.

BTW, compared to another Forum where they bite your head off for simple things, I must say despite their 'slagging off' this Forum, I find this Forum so helpful.

Mustang1977 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 1:11pm:

PS: Sorry for Doublepost, but there was an error with the Connection.

Just click on the REMOVE button on the first one to remove it. That way you only have a single reply. ;)


Colvale wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 10:34pm:

I'm baffled with this plane, or the freighter version, -300C. After previous issues with with engines 1+4, or 1+2 not firing up due to a low oil pressure warning, I opted for a engines running scenario and take-off from the runway. No cargo, 30% fuel in each tank, yet I could not climb to cruise despite trimming for 2000fpm, nor could I get a decent cruise speed.Gave up at 13000 and settled at that CL till I descended and completed the flight. I think I'll park this plane in FSX-SE, at least, for a while. BTW, compared to another Forum where they bite your head off for simple things, I must say despite their 'slagging off' this Forum, I find this Forum so helpful.

I have no problems with the 707 Captain in FSX-SE!
No problems climbing to FL350 (with a gross weight of about 200,000 pounds). :-/

How can I attach a screenshot to show my gauges and instruments?

Mark, can you kindly PM me your aircraft.cfg for the -300C?

Thanks.

Colvale wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 6:41pm:

Which brakes and which pressure to 2.0? The parking brakes or the Pneumatic Brake?

The normal brakes with the pedals/default hotkey "," I think. The EPR Pressure, the gauges under the thrust reverser operating lights  ;)

You can use http://imgur.com for picture upload.


Markoz wrote on Jan 30^th, 2015 at 1:57am:

Just click on the REMOVE button on the first one to remove it. That way you only have a single reply. ;)

Hey cool, just overseen this button. This is the first forum that I've seen with such a function, nice!

My Altitude-Record with the 707-300 is 52.000 Ft  8-) This is possible with very few fuel and payload of course.

http://i.imgur.com/3kBuR63.jpg

No idea what is going wrong here with this particular aircraft.

First I had issues with the Freighter version not even managing to make 10000ft. Then I tried the pax version, only to see no undercarriage, so uninstalled it from FSX-SE and reinstalled it in FSX-MS.

Made another attempt at the same flight-EGCC-EPKK, and as can be seen from the screengrab, same issues of not enough IAS, and an incredulously lethargic climb.

http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/image/E4l

[img]http://i.imgur.com/IZ7hmcj.jpg[/img]

I can't see unusual on the screen. The KIAS is ok for this rate of climb. What is your GW on this screen?

It would be helpful to show also screens from the overhead panel and the engineers panel.

I also recommend the excellent addon "V-One" for the 707.

EDIT: One thing on the screen seems to be not correct: The fuelflow is to low. When you have the throttles near maximum, the fuelflow on this alt should be over 4000 PPH (near 6000 I guess) at each engine.

Thanks for that re:fuel.

I loaded with 30% each tank, 100% wingtip tanks.

Using ACE I loaded 174 pax and GW was 14766 kgs

Just downloading that V-One.

The problem is not the amount of fuel but I guess there could be a problem with the Thrust-Lever. Check your Thrust-Axis if you have 100 % range.

What Controller do you use? A Joystick?

For first Testflights I recommend very few payload, only 2 or 3 stewardesses or so  ;D

Using Microsoft's Force Feedback2 Sidewinder joystick

Just installed the very latest V-One and followed all the instructions to the letter, yet under the 2nd SimIcon, the one that looks like a T, when I click it, I see zilch.

What could I have possibly done wrong here?

Colvale wrote on Jan 30^th, 2015 at 9:58am:

Mark, can you kindly PM me your aircraft.cfg for the -300C? Thanks.

Download it from here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewm2jspg03td6al/aircraft.ORIGINAL.cfg?dl=0

I'll leave this there for a while, then I'll remove it. ;)

Just collecting it. Thanks, Mark.

Colvale wrote on Jan 30^th, 2015 at 6:58pm:

Just installed the very latest V-One and followed all the instructions to the letter, yet under the 2nd SimIcon, the one that looks like a T, when I click it, I see zilch. What could I have possibly done wrong here?

Don't you want to solve the "Thrust-Problem" first? Anyway, make sure you have a subfolder in your \panel Folder called "V-One" with all files in here.

And don't forget the entry in [Window Titles] with the corresponding number. Mine look like this:

[Window Titles]
Window00=Simicons
...
Window09=V-One

.
.
.

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window09]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=480,60
window_pos= 0.0, 0.055
position=0
visible=1
ident=130

gauge00=..\..\CS_B707-300\panel\V-One!V-One, 0,0,480,60

One think about your "Thrust Problem" you can test:

Open the aircraft.cfg an go to this section:

[TurbineEngineData]

search for this entry:

inlet_area=10.0          //15.0

The Originalvalue is 10.0. I've tested higher values, but I was not satisfied with the performance. Maybe that solves your problem. But keep in mind that there could also be a problem with your joystick/thrust axis.

Hi Mustang1972.

Thanks for your input.

Got all those entries in the aircraft.cfg and in the panel.cfg.

That is what is baffling me. I have edited panel.cfgs and aircraft.cfgs several times before, and I have followed the latter version of the V-One file I found on Avsim, to the letter.

Made all the changes to aircraft.cfg and the panel.cfg using the first version of V-One and this time I got to see all the data on that scratchpad by pressing that 'T' icon.

However, I was no further down the road in getting this plane to climb to the 35000 shown on that V-One scratchpad as can be seen from the image.

The speed is falling off, the climb is no better, and all that despite a 50% fuel load. I am at my wits end with this plane.

http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2015/02/01/SpeedBleedingPoorClimb.jpg

There is something else going on here, your pic shows that you are doing nearly Mach .7 which is way out and the barber poll on the ASI is way too low. Do you have FSX set up to display IAS or TAS? Also, are your settings in metres or feet? What weather program, if any, do you use? It just doesn't seem to add up. The climb is probably correct for doing Mach .7 at 12,500 metres.

Cheers Nathan.

ftwd wrote on Feb 1^st, 2015 at 12:55am:

There is something else going on here, your pic shows that you are doing nearly Mach .7 which is way out and the barber poll on the ASI is way too low. Do you have FSX set up to display IAS or TAS? Also, are your settings in metres or feet? What weather program, if any, do you use? It just doesn't seem to add up. The climb is probably correct for doing Mach .7 at 12,500 metres. Cheers Nathan.

His speed may be MACH 0.7, but the airspeed indicator shows about 190 knots and that is way too slow, even at 12,500 metres. :o

Markoz wrote on Feb 1^st, 2015 at 1:52am:

His speed may be MACH 0.7, but the airspeed indicator shows about 190 knots and that is way too slow, even at 12,500 metres. :o

Attention, 12.500 metres are near 41.000 feet - 190 KIAS for that alt would be alright.

@Colvale: Once again, on your new screen, your fuelflow is too low! Only 3000 PPH with (i guess max throttles) on that alt is incorrect! It should be around 5000 PPH. There have to be a problem with the Throttles/fuelsystem.

What show the Tooltip when you hover over the throttles at full throttle? It have to be 100%.

It would be helpful to make a screen of the engineers panel. Maybe you haven't activate all fuel boost pumps?

ftwd wrote on Feb 1^st, 2015 at 12:55am:

There is something else going on here, your pic shows that you are doing nearly Mach .7 which is way out and the barber poll on the ASI is way too low. Do you have FSX set up to display IAS or TAS? Also, are your settings in metres or feet? What weather program, if any, do you use? It just doesn't seem to add up. The climb is probably correct for doing Mach .7 at 12,500 metres. Cheers Nathan.

No weather program, other than FSX's set to fair weather. As I wanted to load fuel and pax in kg, opted for metres as I could not figure any way to load in kgs.

Thanks, Mustang1972, I now realise the gaffe of 12000m=41000ft. I tried to copy your aircraft.cfg and and immediately lost all 707 aircraft in FSX, i.e. no 707Captain displayed, so reverted to the saved .cfg.

Will check that tooltip hover next flight.

Will do Engr's Panel, but I can confirm ALL fuel pumps and Boost Pumps are on. The only ones not switched in-line are the Reserve Tanks fuel switches.

Whooppee! At last, today I managed a 900-mile flight, without a hitch. Cruised to 31k as smooth as silk, and the the entire flight envelope was all that I had hoped for.

That was in FSX-MS. Next try, in FSX-SE.

Many Thanks to to you two, Mustang1977(apols for calling you 1972) and Markoz.

Heyo, nice to hear that  :)

And what was the cause? FF now ok?

Pleased you got it sorted  :)

Hi Mustang1977

FF was ok. It has never been an issue with any other add-ons, so I ruled that out. That was not the issue.

I had stupidly, while following the Tutorial for the CS L-1011 which sets the fuel load in kgs, changed the Unit of Measure settings to metres, but did not twig that it also affected aircraft altimeters, hence when I was at 12000m, I mistakenly thought it was 12000ft, and wondering why it was climbing slowly and not getting to CL. Not surprising with a 50% fuel load.

Today's flight, even with full 100% tanks, I was at 31k CL at a point above the east coast of England as the AivlaSoft EFB predicted I'd be. Result.

Now to configure the CIVA  INS, next. :D :D

Mustang1977 wrote on Feb 1^st, 2015 at 8:18am:

Markoz wrote on Feb 1st, 2015 at 1:52am: His speed may be MACH 0.7, but the airspeed indicator shows about 190 knots and that is way too slow, even at 12,500 metres. :o Attention, 12.500 metres are near 41.000 feet - 190 KIAS for that alt would be alright.

At 41,000 feet, with a gross weight of 189,764 pounds (payload 19,420 and 27,344 pounds of fuel (~18% fuel)) and flying at 190 knots (MACH speed was about 0.67/0.68), my 707-300 had a very pronounced rocking left & right. It really looked like it was on the verge of stalling. While 190 knots at 41,000 feet may not be a stall at that weight/altitude, it is certainly not very stable. In fact, it all started once the speed dropped to about 250 KIAS, and got worse as I slowed. When I throttled up, it took forever to gain much speed (after 5 minutes I was only doing 230 KIAS with full throttle) all the while rocking left and right.

Edit. Fuel flow was ~1000 PPH

Greetings,

@Colvale: Alright, so it was from the beginning a "measure-setting" problem. You should never change this after a fresh install of FSX. Always use of US-Units (Feets/LBS) is recommended. If you need a unit in another value, recalculate it with the corresponding formula. There are many good sites in the INET that made that for you  :)

@Markoz: I recommend to use my tipp in my reply #1 and you have a stable 707 also in high altitudes  ;) I guess this depends more with the AP.

Quote:

@Markoz: I recommend to use my tipp in my reply #1 and you have a stable 707 also in high altitudes  ;) I guess this depends more with the AP.

So your saying that if I modify the roll_stability=1.0 to roll_stability=1.5, then my 707-300 will be more stable at FL410? Fair enough. Sorry, but that's not going to happen. The 707 flies fine on the default settings for me, and I always fly at between MACH 0.78 and 0.82 anyway, and I don't have any problems with it at FL410 if I fly there. ;)

Just made my 2nd flight today, the return leg EPKK-EGCC and I'm glad to say it went off flawlessly. No yawing, no struggling to get to first 35k then later in the flight to 37k all with 50% fuel load. The LOC/VOR for the landing worked a treat. In fact everything now is nirvana for me with this plane. I'm really beginning to enjoy it.

I only wish I could get an Air India repaint for it. I've hunted high and low, without any success. :) :)

That's great news, I thought from your picture that it must have been the metres/feet setting  ;)

Hi Guys,
Does anyone know:
- if there is a Yaw Damper switch in E-3A cockpit  ::)
- if yes, where darned is it?  :D
I experienced some crazy "up and down tremors" during my last flight (same as B737 when Yaw Damper is disconnected), so I am wondering if it is not the same symptom :-/
Thanks for help
Bruno

braudoux wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:04pm:

Hi Guys, Does anyone know: - if there is a Yaw Damper switch in E-3A cockpit  ::) - if yes, where darned is it?  :D I experienced some crazy "up and down tremors" during my last flight (same as B737 when Yaw Damper is disconnected), so I am wondering if it is not the same symptom :-/ Thanks for help Bruno

On page 43 of the ‘707 Captain’ FLIGHT MANUAL Part II – Aircraft and Systems (cs707_manual1.pdf), under the heading of O04. HYDRAULIC POWER SYSTEM, it lists the Rudder Switch instructions:

ON: Opens rudder boost shutoff valve.
OFF: Shuts off rudder boost pressure and series yaw damper.

So that's the switch you need to make sure is ON.

What you are describing sounds like a Dutch Roll, which happens when the 707 (or any aircraft) is too high for its current gross weight. I usually descend until it gets more stable. ;)

Merci Markoz,
I used to check that during my Before Start Check List but did not realize that this was the Yaw Damper switch... :o
Got it, but it was not clear to me.
I'll try that next time I experience the same issue.
Thanks :)
Bruno