Is there some thing wrong with A/P pitch control. After takeoff, over 1000 ft ,  A/P engaged plane pich angel increased rapidly. l did use the  Pitch Control, but nothing happened.
Trim settings remains same after  A/P engaged.I tried to down trim, but it keep going back takeoff trim settings figure.

Hi sanal nice to meet you here :)

I was just stopping by to look for a solution to this problem but apparently there isn't one until CS fixes their code.   The PAX are getting alarmed by the flailing of the airplane as I try and try to get the CWS logic to release its grip on the pitch attitude.  Then suddenly it releases, then seizes up again, etc etc.  For a while it seems to work and then just when you decide to trust it -- "Sir you've busted tour altitude again, your assigned altitude is 8,000 feet" while you're battling with the yoke to get to to descend...even a little bit...and you finally switch it off and hand fly!

This might be all right for casual jaunts around the airport but when you're trying to provide a professional ride to your paying guests, the only way to fly this thing smoothly is to only use the autopilot to hold altitude and fly the magenta line at cruise.  

Other than that, on climb and descent, hand fly it.  Otherwise the autopilot will make your life one long frustration and your PAX will run out of ink filling out complaint cards to your airline's management.

Luckily, though, this is a nice bird to hand fly.  

Dutch

Hi Dutch,
It is a small simworld. ;)
One member  took the default baron 58 radio panel/autopilot  and replaced the captain sim radio panel with it . Solved the problem.
I will try it.
Best regards
Sanal

UPDATE:
Baron 58 radio panel/autopilot installed and performing perfect.

The pitch is controlled by the Yoke. You pull back on the yoke until the 737 is climbing at the rate you want, then release the yoke. The A/P will hold the pitch. That's the way CWS works.

The same applies for banking (when you aren't using the Heading Select or NAV modes).

Unfortunately, for me at least, it does work that way it just doesn't work very reliably.  I'd say 80 percent of the time it works as advertised.  Ten percent of the time it's difficult to get the nose to move at all, and 10 percent it's near impossible.

I start with gentle pressure and often that works.  But sometimes, I can hear the trim wheel clicking and feel it fighting against me.

Let's use a descent as the example.  I'm cleared to a lower altitude.  I cut back on the throttle, switch off the alt hold, and apply gentle downward pressure on the stick.  Often, it will nose down correctly and the autopilot will hold the descent rate I stop at -- more or less accurately but it's acceptable.  But sometimes I press forward and nothing happens.  The nose stays level and I feel and hear the trim wheel working overtime to counteract my pressure.  More forceful pressure will result in some downward motion but when I release the pressure it trims back to level rapidly sometimes overshooting upwards .   Heavy force will cause it to bob violently but it will not descend.  It's determined to not do it, like a stubborn child.

Sometimes I can pull up a bit and it will "release" the hold and then I can press down and it will behave normally.  But sometimes that won't work either.  Nor will operating the trim -- it will counteract my manual trimming with its own to hold its attitude.  

Also fails, say, when I'm descending and want to level off.  I pull up, nothing happens except clicking and whirring as it fights to hold its AND attitude.  More force will bring it up a bit but it will spring back down further when I let go.  I can fight with it and sometimes it will release and let me set it, sometimes it won't.

Oddly, switching off the right paddle (elevator) has NO EFFECT.  It keeps on trying to control.  The ALT HOLD is off so it's not that -- it doesn't try and hold at altitude, it tries to its attitude.

I have made four hour-long flights today and in three of them I had to switch off the autopilot and hand fly because I couldn't get it to do what I needed it to do in time to not bust altitudes.

It does work most of the time.  But somewhere in the code under some circumstances (which I'm trying to determine by experiment)  it's not sensing my pressure on the stick and so not releasing its determination to hold its nose attitude.

Dutch

Hi Dutch.

It's a pity it isn't, mine works like it should every time.

If I turn off the ELEV paddle, I have full control of the pitch using the pitch trim wheel. Turn the ELEV paddle back on, and it will hold the pitch that I set it at. Both UP and DOWN. I must admit that pushing down is a bit trickier, but it still works 100% of the time for me. So it is OFF when I turn it OFF, and ON when I turn it ON.

If I turn off the AIL paddle, I have full control of the turning of the 737, it does not fight me at all. It also works 100% of the time. So this too, is OFF when I turn it OFF, and ON when I turn it ON.

It also performs exactly the same in P3D as it does in FSX, just like it should. :-/

Thanks Mark for the replies.  I wonder what's different about our installations?

I'd be happy with switching off the paddle, adjusting the pitch, and switching it back on -- that's my usual procedure with the 727 since the pitch/turn knob is such a pain to use.

I'll keep experimenting.  Did you replace the radios as suggested in another thread?  I did, had no effect on the problem.

Except for that problem the CS 737 is a fine old jet to fly.  I want to love it as much as I do the 727.  Having a few things quirky and broken is okay in old birds, except when it's something that affects your everyday flying.

UPDATE:  After extensive flight testing I have a procedure that works a treat.  Maybe it might help some others too.

I've been trying to adjust pitch using the yoke and/or trim buttons I have assigned to my joystick.  Not working reliably as I've said.

For grins I tried using the trim keys on my keyboard.  Perfection!  Using those the pitch trim can be adjusted reliably without the system fighting back.  It actually works like the pitch adjustment knob on the 727 only better.  I'm happy!

I have no explanation for why the keys would work and the joystick assigned buttons wouldn't.  (Joystick trim works great when autopilot is not switched on.) I thought, naively, that they were simply equivalent.  FS is such a quirky thing.  Learn something new every day.

Flipping off the elevator paddle still doesn't work: the airplane will try to hold nose attitude regardless of yoke input even with it off.  But with using the keyboard trim it doesn't matter anymore.

Dutch

Did you replace the radios as suggested in another thread?  I did, had no effect on the problem.
No. No changes in the panel.cfg and the only thing I changed in the aircraft.cfg was the static_thrust = 23000 down to 16000.

Dutch wrote on Nov 25^th, 2012 at 4:19am:

Unfortunately, for me at least, it does work that way it just doesn't work very reliably.  I'd say 80 percent of the time it works as advertised.  Ten percent of the time it's difficult to get the nose to move at all, and 10 percent it's near impossible. I start with gentle pressure and often that works.  But sometimes, I can hear the trim wheel clicking and feel it fighting against me. Let's use a descent as the example.  I'm cleared to a lower altitude.  I cut back on the throttle, switch off the alt hold, and apply gentle downward pressure on the stick.  Often, it will nose down correctly and the autopilot will hold the descent rate I stop at -- more or less accurately but it's acceptable.  But sometimes I press forward and nothing happens.  The nose stays level and I feel and hear the trim wheel working overtime to counteract my pressure.  More forceful pressure will result in some downward motion but when I release the pressure it trims back to level rapidly sometimes overshooting upwards .   Heavy force will cause it to bob violently but it will not descend.  It's determined to not do it, like a stubborn child. Sometimes I can pull up a bit and it will "release" the hold and then I can press down and it will behave normally.  But sometimes that won't work either.  Nor will operating the trim -- it will counteract my manual trimming with its own to hold its attitude.   Also fails, say, when I'm descending and want to level off.  I pull up, nothing happens except clicking and whirring as it fights to hold its AND attitude.  More force will bring it up a bit but it will spring back down further when I let go.  I can fight with it and sometimes it will release and let me set it, sometimes it won't. Oddly, switching off the right paddle (elevator) has NO EFFECT.  It keeps on trying to control.  The ALT HOLD is off so it's not that -- it doesn't try and hold at altitude, it tries to its attitude.

The red highlights above are what I experience as well. The pitch aspect of CWS has been a nightmare for me. I don;t even use it anymore except to hold pitch after I trim it manually (trim wheel).

Do you guys have your axes calibrated and defined in FSX directly or is there something from FSUIPC in between? That's the only influence I could imagine. Would be nice if you could test a non FSUIPC flight and just check.

Not saying you have to fly that way since I know that some need or appreciate the FSUIPC calibration a lot. Just testing.

Still recalling the twiddle method.  :D http://captainsim.org/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1342176229/3#3

Mine are done directly in FSX, in fact, they are the default, which works well with all other airplanes.  I use a Logitech Extreme 3D pro.

I'm quite happy with the ability to adjust via the keyboard.  I actually wish the 727 would work that way now.

The only really unacceptable thing now is the lack of a master caution light.

I'm going to have to fix that.

It does fly beautifully with the FDE fix here -- with reasonable EPR numbers.  Another thing that bothers me though is the ridiculously quick fire-up of the engines on start.  That's fixable too though!

Dutch

I have no yoke axis calibrated or set with fsuipc. What I will try is disabling the CH yoke and test with keyboard input only.

Just to revisit this -- the mystery of why the CWS and autopilot works so well on Mark's system and not for me is spelled a-c-c-e-l-e-r-a-t-i-o-n.

On a plain FSX SP2 system the CWS is broken and the autopilot will not hold a VOR/GPS track until the ALT HOLD switch is engaged in the alt hold mode.

On Acceleration, they all work as they are supposed to.

Just wanted to clear up this mystery that has been puzzling me.

Dutch

Dutch wrote on Dec 16^th, 2012 at 9:55pm:

Just to revisit this -- the mystery of why the CWS and autopilot works so well on Mark's system and not for me is spelled a-c-c-e-l-e-r-a-t-i-o-n. On a plain FSX SP2 system the CWS is broken and the autopilot will not hold a VOR/GPS track until the ALT HOLD switch is engaged in the alt hold mode. On Acceleration, they all work as they are supposed to. Just wanted to clear up this mystery that has been puzzling me. Dutch

Hi Dutch, thanks so much for figuring that out! i had exactly the same problems with pitch control as you did. I saw your post so I decided to try it.  I uninstalled SP2 installed Acceleration, and now the autopilot works exactly as it is supposed to.

This is my first post here, so I just want to add that I really love this bird, it is a joy to hand fly, but it's even better now that I have CWS working well.

Ken

Thumbs up for Dutch on the investigation.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Makes sense and really solves some mysteries I guess. Since the requirements list FSX SP2 or Acceleration, they should get amended to read only Acceleration when it comes to a proper autopilot operation then. http://www.captainsim.com/products/x737/sysreq.html

He's posted that detail a while ago, but I must have missed it so far.  :-[

The difference between Acceleration SP2 and the stand alone FSX SP2 is a crazy/stupid decision that was made by MS. I guess they did it in the hopes that everyone would buy the Acceleration Expansion Pack. Obviously they got that one very wrong. :(