The 737-200ADV Expansion model has been released. Details and screenshots

http://www.captainsim.com//products/x737/img/screenshots/e732_24.jpg

this is so unfair as ive spent all me money :(

Friday it will be MINE :)

i have to say i wasnt expecting this. way to go CS!!!  I have several cs products but this has by far been my favorite of all them. i cant wait for the 737F

Nice!!! Thanks Captain Sim! ;D

So,I just bought this for 9.99 euros,does that mean I still have a 10 euro discount on Version 1 when it is released?
Ron :D :D :D

Nice! That KLM livery made me want to buy it!

rservice wrote on Apr 10^th, 2012 at 10:40pm:

So,I just bought this for 9.99 euros,does that mean I still have a 10 euro discount on Version 1 when it is released? Ron :D :D :D

Yes you will :)

Just a quick question on the 737-200ADV,

When the 737-200 base pack goes version 1 is there any plans to have a 200ADV VC with systems modelled around the Advanced version ?

gandy wrote on Apr 11^th, 2012 at 8:40am:

Just a quick question on the 737-200ADV, When the 737-200 base pack goes version 1 is there any plans to have a 200ADV VC with systems modelled around the Advanced version ?

+1

I thought the 737-200 ADV had a different A/P than the 737-100/200. Didn't it come with a Sperry 177 and not the Sperry 77?

Also. What are the main differences with the advanced over the 737-200? I can't see any...Yet! It is supposed to carry more fuel for a longer range and a larger payload (12,000+) but I'm not seeing this in the current 737-200ADV v1.0.

Mark

Markoz wrote on Apr 11^th, 2012 at 8:53am:

gandy wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 8:40am: Just a quick question on the 737-200ADV, When the 737-200 base pack goes version 1 is there any plans to have a 200ADV VC with systems modelled around the Advanced version ? +1 I thought the 737-200 ADV had a different A/P than the 737-100/200. Didn't it come with a Sperry 177 and not the Sperry 77? Also. What are the main differences with the advanced over the 737-200? I can't see any...Yet! It is supposed to carry more fuel for a longer range and a larger payload (12,000+) but I'm not seeing this in the current 737-200ADV v1.0. Mark

the 737-200Adv was also equipped with the Sperry 77, I think the 177 only became a option later. The main difference is the slightly changed wing and flap system  resulting in a higher MTOW as well as more fuel capacity. Also the ADV introduced autobrakes (something that captainsim included in the -200???????????)

check out this link and scroll down to the -200 and 200Adv respectively:

http://www.b737.org.uk/737original.htm

Johann

I don't find it interesting enough, sorry  :-/

NaMcO wrote on Apr 11^th, 2012 at 12:56pm:

I don't find it interesting enough, sorry  :-/

+1 - yep right now I don't feel like spending 10€ for some changed values in the aircraft.cfg (fuel, flaps and lift values) and a graphically changed engine pylon and minimal (nearly non visible) changes to the wing...

the 737-200Adv and 737-200C version both together for 10€ maybe...

I agree with the above.  I bought it because the 200 advanced was what I wanted from the get go (sorry, but the skinny pylons are hideous).  Is it overpriced? Definitely.  Is it worth it? To me yes, because I wanted the advanced model, though the price would have been easier to swallow if they had at least added the 177.  It can't be that difficult or expensive, bit of remodeling in the VC and some minor coding (or repurposeing of code from the 757/767) could have gotten a 177 into the plane.  Oh, well this plane has been a trial of sorts for CS, they may yet include it later.

wrote on Apr 11^th, 2012 at 10:26pm:

I agree with the above.  I bought it because the 200 advanced was what I wanted from the get go (sorry, but the skinny pylons are hideous).  Is it overpriced? Definitely.  Is it worth it? To me yes, because I wanted the advanced model, though the price would have been easier to swallow if they had at least added the 177.  It can't be that difficult or expensive, bit of remodeling in the VC and some minor coding (or repurposeing of code from the 757/767) could have gotten a 177 into the plane.  Oh, well this plane has been a trial of sorts for CS, they may yet include it later.

Adv production began in the late 60s (67) and the SP177 became available only in the early 80s (82) - that's 15 years after the first flight of a 732 advanced. And it's not so easy to code an autopilot - I have to say that in defence to Captain Sim although I basicly agree with you here and I'm very critical in this forum here.

I fully understand that the 177 was a later factory option and not original equipment. I was simply saying that the difference between a 200 and 200adv is so minuscule that adding the 177 would have made the $13 more worth it.  That and CS has competition that has already stated will include a more advanced FCU.

Jettrader wrote on Apr 11^th, 2012 at 10:35pm:

wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:26pm: I agree with the above.  I bought it because the 200 advanced was what I wanted from the get go (sorry, but the skinny pylons are hideous).  Is it overpriced? Definitely.  Is it worth it? To me yes, because I wanted the advanced model, though the price would have been easier to swallow if they had at least added the 177.  It can't be that difficult or expensive, bit of remodeling in the VC and some minor coding (or repurposeing of code from the 757/767) could have gotten a 177 into the plane.  Oh, well this plane has been a trial of sorts for CS, they may yet include it later. Adv production began in the late 60s (67) and the SP177 became available only in the early 80s (82) - that's 15 years after the first flight of a 732 advanced. And it's not so easy to code an autopilot - I have to say that in defence to Captain Sim although I basicly agree with you here and I'm very critical in this forum here.

You are correct about the later model (732) Sperry 177 Advanced autopilot . I have quoted from the release of the Advanced model.

"Highly detailed and accurate digital replica of Boeing 737-200ADV aircraft. The most significant exterior features of the -ADV are the extended engine nacelles (by 1.14m/3ft 9in), broad engine pylons and the inboard leading edge flaps extended to the fuselage."
http://www.captainsim.com/products/x737/adv/expansion.html

I do not see any reference to the Sperry 177 or any other VC update.
Who knows, maybe later. In Captain Sims defense we got what was listed.

Not complaining, I knew what I was getting.  Just would have been more worth the money had they added a bit more to the advanced package.

wrote on Apr 11^th, 2012 at 11:09pm:

Not complaining, I knew what I was getting.  Just would have been more worth the money had they added a bit more to the advanced package.

yep......Maybe in future version or update we can have the SP177.

Features of the “Advanced 737”:
   New High-lift system
     Extended-span inboard Krueger flaps;
     Wide nacelle strut;
     Smooth fixed leading edge;
     Slat positioning;
     Trailing-edge flap seals.

   Improved Stopping:
     New metering pin for smoother landing;
     Auto brake system;
     Advanced anti-skid system;
     Nose wheel brakes available.

   Improved engines:
     JT8D-15 with 15,500 lbs., later -17 (17k) became an option.

   New “wide wide body” interior.
   Gross weight increase: 5,000 lbs., or more.
   Development started in 1969, with certification 1971

SP 177 autoflight system became available late 1970’s as an option, while SP 77 remained available until at least 1985. The -177 offered many advantages including altitude capture, up to autoland capability.

When a customer orders a Boeing, an id is assigned. For example, Southwest (USA) is “H4”; all of their aircraft will be listed as 737-2H4 as a -200, -3H4 if a -300, etc.  Original United Airlines is “22”, or 737-222, -322, -522. But these two examples will have a different “standard” which will likely be different than a Boeing base standard. A customer can order many, many specifics: Logo lights; different gross weights; engine; SP-77 vs. -177 and so on. The thought is to have a standardized flightdeck for the crew and operation  –all airplanes for that operator are the same. However, some airlines will short-term lease, or acquire aircraft from multiple operators, making it a more difficult and eliminating what is “standard”.

Perhaps it has been stated somewhere elsewhere which specific 737 this model represents. While many features and system operations carry between the variants, there are differences, too. When making a statement of “standard”, or “incorrect” the author should be cautious due to operator changes.

Also, all 737-100 to 500 are considered as “classic” models; -600 to -900 are “NG”, or Next-Generation.

Sean

My guess is that the Captain Sim model is either based on the earliest versions of the 737-200ADV, that may have been the Boeing "standard" model without any of the airlines options added, OR, based on a 737-200ADV that Captain Sim had access to and so that is what we got.

Seeing as SP 177 autoflight system became available late 1970’s as an option, while SP 77 remained available until at least 1985 it seems unlikely that we will get the 177 in the CS 737-200ADV. I have to admit that I thought that the -200ADV came with the Sperry 177 right from the very first models. I was wrong. Mind you, it'd be nice if... they added it. But if they don't, I can live with the way it is.

Mark

Mark,

Regarding the modeled aircraft, you are probably correct: Whatever manuals they could get.

From a user standpoint the -177 has definite advantages…the altitude capture alone is nice. But you could also do some nice things with CMD position selected.

With appropriate paddle in CMD position:

 -By de-selecting the pitch mode, you now have CWS available, but with the protection of altitude capture and remaining in a lateral mode, if selected. This is a great feature when climbing, or descending. On some units LVL CHG would cause the pitch to chase the IAS, or be abrupt when selected.

 -When using heading/nav mode, you can also de-select giving CWS roll, while maintaining a desired vertical mode –LVL CHG; VS; ALT HOLD. This feature is particularly nice maneuvering around weather, or intercepting a localizer, for example.

The system was also much more adept with autothrottles than the -77. In fact, very few airplanes I ever saw had a/t when SP 77 equipped, but it was available.

“Flying” the -77 keeps you more honest. Once the -177 was incorporated, then it would a VLF next, or like some have requested, an FMC.

Sean

I could see them adding the 177, if for no other reason than to keep up with the competition.  As I said before, they already have most of the code they would need in the 757/767, just a matter of adapting it to the 737 (could be difficult, I honestly don't know).  That and modeling/texturing the 177 in the VC.  I can't say everyone wants a 177, but it would seem a healthy portion do, and it would be a shame for CS to ignore that.  

For me I am enjoying the 77, it's actually quite nice for its time.  However, when I fly, I always use a delta paint and have found zero evidence that Delta ever had a Sperry 77 equipped 732. So, for that reason alone I would like the 177 even though the 77 in the end gets the job done.

Delta acquired Western Airlines and the 737-247; I would be very surprised if these did not have the SP-77 installed. Did DL convert these aircraft to -177 AFCS? I can’t say for sure.

How accurate do you want?

For CS to change their model to the DL standard, more is involved:

     In addition to the SP-177, autothrottles should be installed;
     Strobe and/or Logo light added;
     VLF/Omega added;
     PDCS control head relocated to upper left side of throttle quadrant;
     Current ALT alerter removed –in MCP of 177;
     Change RMI heads;
     Update fire warning panel;
     Fuel totalizer removed;
     Nav/Com and radio selectors would need to be changed;
     Transponder head relocated;
     Different WX radar;
     Engine performance would have to replicate the -15, or -17.

Once cabin view is available, which galley and seat layout is desired?

And this is just the surface stuff of which I am aware.

Can you imagine the complexity in trying to model every variation and at a price point not bringing (more) negative comment? Does the competition offer a better overall model, at a lower cost?

Sean


     

I know most of DL's 737 came from Western, but they must have either retired or refitted the 732's.  I wouldn't  expect CS to go through the trouble of making an exact replica of the Delta model, I would be happy with just the 177.

@Captain Sim,

The outboard slats on the 200adv don't seem to extend enough in your model.

wrote on Apr 13^th, 2012 at 5:48pm:

I know most of DL's 737 came from Western, but they must have either retired or refitted the 732's.  I wouldn't  expect CS to go through the trouble of making an exact replica of the Delta model, I would be happy with just the 177.

Yes, the SP177 Autopilot would be nice to have on the ADV model.

BTW, Jettrader and NaMcO:

I believe Jettrader had earlier also meant the following link about a bit of interesting history on 737 Glareshield evolution:

http://www.b737.org.uk/glareshield.htm

Thank you, i love every bit of history  ;)

NaMcO wrote on Apr 15^th, 2012 at 11:38pm:

Thank you, i love every bit of history  ;)

NP. Many thanks for your personal effort in contributing the new 737 liveries. Much appreciate it!

I hope the SP177 will be included in the ADV, 10 Euros is a lot of money for a model that's 99% similar to the vanilla -200 and includes only 2 official liveries.

BTW has anyone noticed the Garmin GPS placard in the VC? I don't think Captainsim would've put it there if they weren't planning any RNAV capability in the future as the current 737-200 clearly doesn't have a GPS. Of course they'll need a SP177 and a HSI source switch (aka the Killer switch) if there is RNAV.

Avantime wrote on Apr 18^th, 2012 at 5:14pm:

I hope the SP177 will be included in the ADV, 10 Euros is a lot of money for a model that's 99% similar to the vanilla -200 and includes only 2 official liveries. BTW has anyone noticed the Garmin GPS placard in the VC? I don't think Captainsim would've put it there if they weren't planning any RNAV capability in the future as the current 737-200 clearly doesn't have a GPS. Of course they'll need a SP177 and a HSI source switch (aka the Killer switch) if there is RNAV.

Why would you put a RNAV in a classic airliner? The GPS is there, but not slaved to anything. The WHOLE point of this aircraft is modeled for the Sixties era. Maybe, CS will build a -300 after this one with all that stuff in it.

Thank you all for the comments,
The SP177 will not be included into the 737 Original family.
As an expansion option? (for some extra $ as it is a huge job by the way). May be one day.