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707 Captain >> 707 Captain >> 707 v1.2
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Message started by Markoz on Oct 20th, 2010 at 3:04pm

Title: 707 v1.2
Post by Markoz on Oct 20th, 2010 at 3:04pm
Hi Captain Sim.

I have downloaded the latest version of the 707 and I'm taking her "out for a spin" right now. So far everything is going very well. I'm impressed and I feel it just got a whole lot better. :)

Mark [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by 707captain on Oct 20th, 2010 at 3:53pm
I am downloading it, too. What are the changes you noticed? Smoother framerate ? ;)

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by Markoz on Oct 20th, 2010 at 4:16pm
Sorry for the time it has taken to reply, I was in the middle of a 1 hour 20 minute flight.

The list of changes in v1.2 can be found HERE, but I'll list the changes here.


Quote:
The 707 Captain (707-300) version 1.2 is available and includes SP1 plus the following new features and enhancements:

     New Features:
     - Removable Yokes in VC
     - Improved low lift Wing Flex
     - Show/hide Pilots in Exterior Model
     - Improved Interior Sound
     - Improved Cockpit Voice Recorder
     - Trim Wheel Sound
     - Cabin Attendant Call Sound

     Systems:
     - DNS Crash to Desktop fix
     - Improved Pressurization System
     - DME Indicator fix
     - External Air fix
     - Improved DNS
     - COMM and NAV Frequency Selector Knobs fix
     - Standby Attitude Indicator fix
     - Tank Temperature Indicator fix

     Models:
     - Beacon Light Blinking fix
     - Minor Animations fixes

     Misc:
     - Updated Manuals
     - Improved Flight Model

I love it. She is going to be a busy lady for a while for me. :D

Mark

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by 707captain on Oct 20th, 2010 at 5:11pm

Markoz wrote on Oct 20th, 2010 at 4:16pm:


[quote]
I love it. She is going to be a busy lady for a while for me. :D

Mark


I fully agree with you. I was waiting for this release since FSX came out. Cannot wait until the first liveries are out and of course, for the C-Model...


Wondering if captainsim is still interested in improvement proposals...

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by asanal on Oct 20th, 2010 at 5:12pm
Hi Mark,


1-I think, I should remove 1,1 then install 1.2. Is this correct way?
2- Change Panel cfg.file with Civa cfg.file

3- Reinstall INS

Sanal

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by mendoza on Oct 20th, 2010 at 5:16pm
Thank you Captain Sim  :D

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by afmoose on Oct 20th, 2010 at 7:22pm
Thanks for the latest update, but would have been nice to see the stab trim animation corrected... considering how accurate you guys like to make everything, that seems like a pretty big visual detail to get wrong.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but the utmost respect for what you guys do, but accuracy is the reason why I think most of us shell out good money for your products.
 I hope this is seen as only constructive criticism, as that is all it is meant as.
Gary

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by CoolP on Oct 20th, 2010 at 7:32pm
Great news, thanks for the HU here.

afmoose, I hope you've dropped a ticket concerning this complain because the forums aren't intended to issue support items.

I'll update the 1.1 bug list to 1.2 and maybe you can report back there how the ticket went through. Would be much appreciated.

Thanks Captain Sim for the very fast update.  :)

edited
Done: post 1.2 bug list http://www.captainsim.org/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1287684648/0#0

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by afmoose on Oct 20th, 2010 at 7:47pm
I did when 1.1 came out, but never got a reply. It's still in there.
Gary

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by CoolP on Oct 20th, 2010 at 7:54pm
So please check in your profile if it was processed in any way.

Has anyone seen the updated manuals? The "manual" folder is missing now.  :-/

I recommend downloading them now from your profile but the older installers placed them in the Captain Sim folder when installing the plane.

Help me, but the DME readings are different now but still strange.
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9905/dmeo.th.jpg

Or am I misinterpreting something here?

Below 100nm looks fine
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/7247/dmebelow100.th.jpg


But the pressurization is looking good so far. Please implement that on the 727, 757 and 767 too.  8-)
I'm not joking, they all have inop systems currently. But, one after another of course. No need to hurry.

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by Markoz on Oct 20th, 2010 at 10:02pm
I downloaded the manuals shortly after I downloaded the 707 v1.2. It appears that manuals 1 and 3 are the updated ones, PART II – Aircraft and Systems is not (it is dated 17 August, 2010).

I don't think there was ever a manuals folder inside my FSX\Captain_Sim\707. I usually make a new folder named  manuals and then extract the manuals from the zip files to there. I have done this to all my Captain Sim products.

Mark

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by CoolP on Oct 20th, 2010 at 10:53pm
Ok, maybe I have the same habit and it's so much habit that I can't remember.
I still have the 1.1 installer and will check it, just in case. I've checked, you were right. Nasty habit.  ;D

What do you say about the DME readings, Mark? Do they make sense to you when above 100nm?

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by Markoz on Oct 20th, 2010 at 11:28pm
It appears that the numbers rotating are only the tenths of a mile. The first digit is a zero(0) and I think the second was a one (1). Neither of them changed when the distance to the VOR was less than 100.

I'm flying the CS 752 at the moment, so I can't be absolutely sure. I'll edit this post after I get back to the 707. ;)

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by CoolP on Oct 20th, 2010 at 11:34pm
No hurry, get those passengers on the ground first without breaking the nice 752.
By the way, look at the cabin Alt on that bird, Mark. One item on the 757 bug list. Should not be above 6000ft in cruise but is well over 10.000 without any warnings.
Details here: http://www.biggles-software.com/software/757_tech/air_systems/pressurization.htm

I've just clicked around in the 1.2 707 and maybe gathered some items.
I'll set up a new post 1.2 thread then to discuss and report.
She's surely getting better and after this very fast 1.2 release some patience might be a good idea.

Thanks again, Captaim Sim and await our input.  :)

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by Markoz on Oct 21st, 2010 at 4:05am
Hi CoolP.

These can be for you v1.3 bug list, once you get it started. ;)

I did a flight in the 707 and did a study of the DME. It works up to 109 miles.

From left to right on the DME gauge. First digit is Hundreds. Second digit is Tens. Third digit is singles. The Tens digit rotates up to 100 where it becomes a zero. It never rotates higher than that.

Mark

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by TheFinn on Oct 21st, 2010 at 6:14am
Great work again CS!  :o Your 707 is now a real charm to fly with!  :)

The trim-wheel animation is indeed still a little buggy (the sound too when moved with key-commands). But at least the sound is now way better than before!

As for the pressurization system: In my 15 mins of test flight, it has somehow worked, but my cabin alt still was equal to the planes altitude. But I'm sure this was somehow my fault as it seems to work with others. Dunno what I've done wrong...  :-?

And thanks for fixing the NAV and COMM freq-knobs, this was the most annoying bug to me.  :)

Again, thumbs up for CS!  8-)

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by Captain Sim 2 on Oct 21st, 2010 at 7:42am
Thank you all!


Markoz wrote on Oct 20th, 2010 at 10:02pm:
I downloaded the manuals shortly after I downloaded the 707 v1.2. It appears that manuals 1 and 3 are the updated ones, PART II – Aircraft and Systems is not (it is dated 17 August, 2010).


Thanks, out fault. Correct Manual Part II just re-uploaded.

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by Markoz on Oct 21st, 2010 at 8:00am

TheFinn wrote on Oct 21st, 2010 at 6:14am:
As for the pressurization system: In my 15 mins of test flight, it has somehow worked, but my cabin alt still was equal to the planes altitude. But I'm sure this was somehow my fault as it seems to work with others. Dunno what I've done wrong...  :-?
The pressurization gauge works for me. I've done quite a few flights and I have made adjustment to the Cabin Altitude and it worked.


In these two images, the yellow shows the settings I have selected and the altitude it actually is at (there is about a 400 foot difference). The blue circle shows my planes altitude (first image show FL185, second image shows FL315) they are correct (I leveled out at FL320 ;)).

Mark

Edit:


Captain Sim 2 wrote on Oct 21st, 2010 at 7:42am:
Thank you all!


Markoz wrote on Oct 20th, 2010 at 10:02pm:
I downloaded the manuals shortly after I downloaded the 707 v1.2. It appears that manuals 1 and 3 are the updated ones, PART II – Aircraft and Systems is not (it is dated 17 August, 2010).


Manual Part II will be updated today. We are sorry for delay.
Thanks Captain Sim
 ;D

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by TheFinn on Oct 21st, 2010 at 8:26am
That would be horribly wrong, because the big-needle is the pressure differential pressure, and NOT the cabin altitude. The small one would be the cabin-altitude.  :(

Do you still get the yellow warnings in the overhead-panel while climbing above 10'000ft?

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by Markoz on Oct 21st, 2010 at 9:05am

Quote:
That would be horribly wrong, because the big-needle is the pressure differential pressure, and NOT the cabin altitude. The small one would be the cabin-altitude.  :(
I believe it is correct because the outer numbers go from 0 up to 10, with 10,000 feet cabin pressure being about as high as you would want to have it. The inner numbers go from 0 to 50 and the 707's service ceiling is about 41000 - 43000 feet (AFAIK). Probably higher.


Quote:
Do you still get the yellow warnings in the overhead-panel while climbing above 10'000ft?
I've never noticed, nor looked, lately. I'll check it out on my next flight.

Mark

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by TheFinn on Oct 21st, 2010 at 9:30am
Read what is written on the gauge itself, the outer scale is "DIFF. PRESS P.S.I" and the inner is "CAB ALT".

And I know how this gauge works from the best simulated 727 available for FS9. This gauge does not have an indication of the planes actual altitude, just the differential pressure and cabin altitude.

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by SoulFlight on Oct 21st, 2010 at 12:59pm
Great, two days after I bought the product, CS releases it with 10 € off.

I LOVE YOU ALL!  :P


Great work anyways.....

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by Markoz on Oct 21st, 2010 at 1:28pm
I had a look at the gauge and I see you are right with what is written on the face of the gauge. The only thing is, I was going by something that LOU posted about the cabin pressurization HERE. He wrote:


In this screen capture of the 707 pressure panel the plane is at FL250, all bleeds are open, the 3 turbo compressors are running, both packs on, and as you can see the auto selector is set to 4,000' and the cabin is around 6,000' and coming down at 1,400 fpm, but the manual controller has almost full DECREASE pressure selected.  Before I started using the manual controller (just using the auto controller) the cabin was climbing even though a lower altitude is selected in the auto controller. When I selected INCREASE pressure on the manual controller the cabin climbed higher.

I took it that, from what he said and the needle positions on the gauges in the image, that the way I described it was correct.


SoulFlight wrote on Oct 21st, 2010 at 12:59pm:
Great, two days after I bought the product, CS releases it with 10 € off.

I LOVE YOU ALL!  :P


Great work anyways.....
That's the story of my life. ;D

@LOU. I hope you don't mind my using you image in this post.

Mark

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by speck on Oct 21st, 2010 at 2:18pm
All I can say Wow for V1.2. A huge improvement over V1.0 in the quickest of times. Thanks Captain Sim and thanks to all the 707 fans out there whose high standards made it possible. I'm a very happy sim pilot :D

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by CoolP on Oct 21st, 2010 at 6:13pm
Guys and fellow Captains, I've set up the post 1.2 bug list and I'm hoping to see you there.
http://www.captainsim.org/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1287684648/0#0

Thanks for the work on the post 1.1 one and if you don't mind, I'd like to grab your pictures and post them in that list to have one thread to discuss and explain all currently remaining bugs.

Thanks for your help.  :)

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by Mik75 on Oct 21st, 2010 at 9:47pm
You´re right Finn!
A similiar gauge can still be found on all 737´s. (and on 727)
And the big needle with the outer scale is the differential pressure and the small needle with the inner scale is the cabin altitude!
As I just downloaded the V 1.2, I´ll give it try to see how the pressurization is working now...
Greets,
Michael

Title: Re: 707 v1.2
Post by LOU on Oct 27th, 2010 at 5:16pm
I had a look at the gauge and I see you are right with what is written on the face of the gauge. The only thing is, I was going by something that LOU posted about the cabin pressurization HERE. He wrote:



In this screen capture of the 707 pressure panel the plane is at FL250, all bleeds are open, the 3 turbo compressors are running, both packs on, and as you can see the auto selector is set to 4,000' and the cabin is around 6,000' and coming down at 1,400 fpm, but the manual controller has almost full DECREASE pressure selected.  Before I started using the manual controller (just using the auto controller) the cabin was climbing even though a lower altitude is selected in the auto controller. When I selected INCREASE pressure on the manual controller the cabin climbed higher.

I took it that, from what he said and the needle positions on the gauges in the image, that the way I described it was correct.


Mark and all, sorry for the confusion!

In the above image, the cabin is at aircraft altitude - about 26,500' (the small inside needle)
The cabin differential shows just a bit over 5 PSI.
I think the needles are reversed in the program since I selected 4,000' for the cabin altitude, but there is something else wrong. Unless I used the manual controller the cabin was climbing at a high rate. when I used the manual controller to INCREASE pressure it just kept climbing. If you look close, you will see that I have cranked in DECREASE pressure on the manual controller to get the cabin to go down.

Something is cattywompus (an aviation technical term) in the pressure panel program.

Remember, the two controllers -AUTO & MANUAL- are connected.

The manual controller just has a stronger input to the outflow valves and of course there is no auto protection to stop at a selected altitude. The outflow valves still have the auto (8.6PSI) limit, and emergency(9.42PSI) relief so the cabin will not exceed max differential.

The way it works is like this:
You would first select - in auto pressure controller- a higher altitude. (ex. if you are at a sea level airport you would select 1,000 or 2,000 feet above the airport altitude. This was to soften the down pressure "bump" when you started to pressurize the cabin.

After engine start, (all doors closed) you would start the first turbo compressor and see how big a bump you would get. Some F/E's would use the thrust valve switch to soften the bump. Before turbo start they would close the thrust valve and open it as the turbo compressor came up to speed. Some of the turbo compressors would come on slowly and others would start fast, you never knew.

After all engines are started, and all turbos are running and the cabin stable, you would slowly bring the cabin down to just a bit below aircraft altitude. This was to avoid some surges in the cabin pressure during takeoff and during rotation. This slight amount of "head" pressure would help soften surges - but not in all cases. Remember this is ART not science, it's like playing music.

After takeoff, the F/E would select DECREASE rate on the small knob of the auto controller, then crank up the auto pressure controller S L O W L Y at first to an altitude a bit higher than cruise altitude. Look at the inner window at the top center of the auto controller. It shows "FLIGHT ALT AT MAX DIFFerential." You would want to be a bit higher in selected cabin altitude (1,500 to 2,000") to avoid the auto pressure relief valve from letting go. Remember it's ART - each plane was just like a person - different! Even though the relief was advertised as 8.6 PSI, you never knew! Once the cabin altitude was selected, you could adjust the rate knob to climb at a smooth rate. (300 to 500 FPM) If altitude was changed during flight the F/E would have to re-set the auto controller. Also, if the plane was light the F/E would have to increase the rate of climb of the cabin so as not to be overtaken in climb which would result in playing with the relief valve - not a pretty sight! The F/A's would all let the poor F/E know how much they enjoyed the "bump."

On the way down the reverse was true. You would select DEC on the rate knob, slowly move the cabin altitude selector to the selected airport altitude and maybe just a few feet more. (landing at an airport of 1,000' above sea level, you might put in 975' for the same reason as above.) The F/E would have to keep an eye on the progress of the cabin so as not to let the plane catch the cabin. If that happened, the cabin would descend at the same rate as the aircraft. (See comment above about F/A's wrath!) Another problem on some planes - 727 as well - was that at low power settings during descent, there was not enough airflow from the turbos (or bleed air-727) to keep the cabin going down. Closing the thrust valve on the 707 or the cargo heat valve on the 727 would help conserve air pressure, but some of the planes leaked so bad that some power was needed on at least one of the engines to keep the cabin under control.

Hope this was not too long, but that should clear up the confusion.

Lou

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