Hi.

HELP! I'm really having a hard time getting the 707's engines started. Sometimes CTRL+E does it, other times it won't. I have looked for, but can't find the APU, although it is listed on the checklist images in the Engineers Station. I'm missing something that either needs to be turned off or on to get them lit. In the mean time I might see if there is some clues to this in the 707 - General Discussion forum!

Hopefully the manual Part III - Normal Procedures isn't too far away. I sure could use it right now. ;)

Just a side note: The bonus features listed for Version 1.1 (Release September 2010) sound fantastic. I can hardly wait.

P.S. I love the Sunshade feature on the OH windows. I found them by accident when my mouse pointer passed over them!

Mark

I don't believe the 707 had an apu, at least not the early ones.

According to the manual (still on the fence about buying this one, it is a bit expensive for me), you can connect external air via the animation control panel, try that for engine start.

trisager wrote on Aug 18^th, 2010 at 9:16am:

I don't believe the 707 had an apu, at least not the early ones. According to the manual (still on the fence about buying this one, it is a bit expensive for me), you can connect external air via the animation control panel, try that for engine start.

Thanks for that.
Unfortunately I have tried everything (almost^*) I can think of so far, which includes via the External Air being ON. I'm just not being very successful. I only get it started about once in every four tries and and so far every time I have it's been by using CTRL+E.
^*Except the one that works!

I did go to the 707 - General Discussion forum and found QID 203, but only managed to start engine #3. Engines #4, #1 and #2 refused to start. In the QID 203 it says to turn on the APU IF available. I really believe that there is some switch that is either ON when it needs to be OFF or vice-verse (it could be more than one). I'll keep on trying, but if worse comes to worse I can always start the flight with the engines already running.

Mark

Hey Markoz,

yesterday I experienced the same problem. After downloading and reading the manuals I´m pretty sure that our problem has something to do with the guarded switch in the middle of the engine starter knobs on the overhead panel (ground start selector switch). I haven´t had a chance to try it out yet, but I think this switch has to be in the up position (low press) to start ALL engines. Please check the manual part II on page 41 for further information.

Hi Jo1984

I have tried starting the engines with that switch set to LOW PRESS, OFF and HIGH PRESS, without success. I'm suspicious that it has something to do with switches that provide air from the External Air to the engines. A switch or some switches must be in the wrong position, I just can't quite figure out witch one(s). :-/

Mark

Did you open the left and right wing valves? Did the Duct High and Low pressure indictors indicate pressure? Did you switch the Ground Service Master Switch to "on"?
Maybe this threat helps you: http://www.captainsim.org/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1195099122

Yeah everything was as you say, but it was still a "no go" for engine start. I'll try using that engine start sequence from the Legendary 707 forum and see how it goes. I'll report back on the results.

Mark

I had a hard start also. I got it figured out.
I make sure I have fuel.  Call for exterior power and air. I make sure all fuel pimps are on I set the bleed switches for the air cond to on, on the flight engineers panel.  On the over head pane,l I set the start switch to low pressure. Each engine ignition I then switch to ground  and by the time I move my view with the mouse down to the throttles it is time to move each fuel lever for each engine up to the start position.  I can see the gauges show pressure and then move the lever to the idle.  It works each time now.
Wayne L Pierce

Thanks Wayne. I'll give it a try next flight.

Here is what I found. High Pressure for the two left engines (#1 & #2) and Low Pressure for the two right engines (#3 & #4), and that got all four going. I have found that CTRL+E works every time if I touch nothing (not even the Master Battery Switch) when I first start my flight. This is not ideal, but at least it works. If I find your method works, then CTRL+E will no longer be needed!

Mark

I use low pressure for all the engines.  I have found that the most foolproof way seems to be to put the levers in the start position before switching the start knob.  Maybe I'll become more coordinated or something, but that was the trick for me.

For what it is worth. Here is how I got the engines started from the 707-300 Cold-n-Dark (KSEA) Flight.

Flight Engineers Station
Battery (master switch)...................................................ON
DC Meters Selector.........................................................TR3
Essential Power Source Selector.......................................EXT PWR
AC Paralleling Selector....................................................External Power
Engine Bleed Air Switches................................................ON
Wing Valve Switches.......................................................OPEN
Left & Right Air-Conditioning Unit Pack Switches.................Both OFF

Overhead Panel
Ground Start Selector Switch............................................HIGH PRESS/LOW PRESS⁺
Engine Start Levers.........................................................START
Engine Start Control Switch..............................................GRD<sup>*

*</sup>Repeat for remaining engines.
⁺Sometimes it works on High Press and other times Low Press. Weird! :-/

I guess you can start the engines in whatever order you like but I read in QID 203 (from the Support KB) that the order is #3, #4, #1 then #2. Like Tim says, the engines only start if the Engine Start Levers are in the START position before turning the Engine Start Control Switch to GRD (this goes for ALL the engines). Thank you very much for pointing this one out Tim!

Hope this helps.

Mark

Mark,
Thanks for your info. I managed to start only #3 engine with your procedure, unfortunately I cannot start other engines. >:( >:(

I  uninstall/install 707, but still only  engine # 3 is starting. External power connected. I dont thing this model 707 has APU (If is not hiding some where)

Do you have any advise?

Regards
Sanal

Hi Sanal.

I have to admit that it doesn't start for me every time either. When that happens I just reset the flight and try again. This method works the best for me. Unfortunately, using CTRL+E only has a success rate of around 1 in 4 for me. I must be missing something. If I figure it out I will revise how to start them. In the mean time, we are going to have to wait to see what the Part III - Normal Procedures manual is ready so we can find out. :(

Mark

We are working on the Manual to be released as soon as possible. Our apologies for inconvenience.

Thanks Captain Sim.

I'm definitely looking forward to it. For now the challenge of trying to figure it out is FUN! Sort off. I'm only speaking for myself here. ;D

Mark

Hi,

I am flying this aircrat for 1 hour now. I made 2 out of 2 succesfull engine starts.

I load the aircraft with all systems off.

I use my own checklist: (maybe it's not the real checklist, but it works for me)

Before start checklist

Battery switch                        on
Galley switch                        on
External power / external air (animations panel)      on      
External power switch                        on
External power source                        ext
AC parallel                              ext
Gen breakers/ gen conrols / bus tie breaker            off / check all red lights off
All gengine bleed                        on
DC                              tr 3
All fuel systemes / fuel transfer / manifold            on

Engine start checklist (engine 1)

Fuel control                              start
Ground start                        low press
Engine start                        ground (monitor N2)
Fuel control                              idle
Repeat                              engine 2, 3, 4

After start checklist

External power source                        gen 3
Acc parallel                              gen 3
External power switch                        off
External power / external air (animations panel)      off      
Left / right airco unit                        on
Avionics                              set key in FSX / on

(excuse my for the 'tabs')

Kind regards,

Constantijn van Kooten Niekerk

Hello folks,

i have no problems with starting engines at all.
0) Set all fuel levers to cut off
1) Baterries ON
2) External Power and Air ON
3) External Power on FE Panel ON.
4) Ess. Supply to External
5) Make sure Eng Bleeds and Bleeds crossfeeds are all ON.
6) Make sure AirPacks are OFF.
7) Make sure you have fed all engines with fuel, if not - open all fuel crossfeeds.
8) Ignitors to Low Pressure
9) Starter to Ground
10) And the main trick is to move fuel lever to Start position just before 20% N2.
The engine will make "bing" sound and it is up.

well, i think Constantijn above has better checklist  ::)

Pavel

The Manual Part III - Normal Procedures is now available.  We are sorry for delay.

I did followup the III_manual  engine starting procedures. Engines did not start. FE panel setup according the starting procedure. Only one think comes to my attention, there are no gauges showing Fuel pressure  increase and fuel flown to engines.

What am missing??? :( :( :(
Sanal

Hi Sanal.

I am doing engine starts using the ENGINE START PROCEDURE from Part III - Normal Procedures manual (p23) and all four engines fire up normally. I have now successfully started all four engines on the last 6+ attempts, so I feel that the start procedures are correct.

Tim Capps pointed out that moving the Engine Start Levers to START before turning the Engine Start Control Switch to GRD was the only way he could get the engines started. You might like to try this. I was doing it that way which eventually had me getting constant successful engine starts. Now I'm doing it using the Normal Procedures method and all is good.

Mark

Mark,
You are correct. I managed to start all four engines. This is incredible airplane.

Thanks
Sanal  :D :D :D

That's great Sanal.

This reminds me of when I bought the C-130 All-in-One Pack. It took a while to get the engine start sequence figured out. I no longer have problems with engine starts in either of them.

Mark

asanal wrote on Aug 20^th, 2010 at 11:51pm:

I did followup the III_manual  engine starting procedures. Engines did not start. FE panel setup according the starting procedure. Only one think comes to my attention, there are no gauges showing Fuel pressure  increase and fuel flown to engines. What am missing??? :( :( :( Sanal

The one time I couldn't start the engines I forgot to switch the ignition switch to low pressure.

I believe you have to open the engine bleed air valve to get air to the start valve.