I have been watching this board for some time waiting for the CS 727 to get a clean bill of health--- consensus wise. Seems there are still numerous problems, so I will continue waiting before I purchase.

Since both of you are career pilots with lots of 72 hours I hope you will provide ongoing input as to your experience and satisfaction level with this product.

I am not a pilot, but spent my entire working career in the airline and travel industry. I have quite a few hours riding 72s in the back end, as well as the jump seat, and I would really like to have this airplane in my FSX; but only after it is properly finished--- at least to your satisfaction. So, thank you in advance for any comments.

B. Scott

Not bad.
Some of the things I noticed that are not right are:
Noise when flaps move
Only got the FD to display one time and with alt hold selected the FD only followed,not commanded.Have not yet managed to put the FD in app mode.
HSI knob only moves one way.
Nav radio can only be tuned to a lower freq.
No tail skid when gear is down. Didn't notice if tail skid light is displayed on FE panel.
With full throttle the EPR gauges should go past 2.0 EPRs [Unless the wx is really hot.]
The sink rate warning goes off during a normal app on the GS.
However,overall it is fairly close to the 727.
The roll rate is about right but it takes too much elevator pressure.
The power to airspeed parameters and pitch with TO power are correct and are pretty good.
I give it a B-.

DD  -  Thank you for the feedback!

B- isn't too bad, I suppose. I guess my main concern is does the auto pilot work properly and does it pick up the ILS localizer and glideslope, disconnecting the HDG Hold and The ALT Hold etc. I assume your comment on the FD(flight director?) in APP(approach) mode has to do with this.

The sink rate warning is a FSX problem with the default planes as well.

I am basically a seat of the pants FSX pilot and some of your response is somewhat unfamiliar to me --flap noise (too much, too little), tail skid (didn't know there was some sort of panel indicator, HSI and NAV radio movement problems) but overall it sounds like you are fairly satisfied and the plane is very flyable.

Btw, the EPR gauge thing doesn't really register with me with the exception I always used to sweat denied boarding (due weight restrictions) here in DEN during the hot weather season.

This is what I mean by seat of the pants:

http://www.vimeo.com/8685197

Thanks again!

B. Scott

delta dog wrote on Mar 7^th, 2010 at 12:30am:

Not bad. Some of the things I noticed that are not right are: Noise when flaps move Only got the FD to display one time and with alt hold selected the FD only followed,not commanded.Have not yet managed to put the FD in app mode. HSI knob only moves one way. Nav radio can only be tuned to a lower freq. No tail skid when gear is down. Didn't notice if tail skid light is displayed on FE panel. With full throttle the EPR gauges should go past 2.0 EPRs [Unless the wx is really hot.] The sink rate warning goes off during a normal app on the GS. However,overall it is fairly close to the 727. The roll rate is about right but it takes too much elevator pressure. The power to airspeed parameters and pitch with TO power are correct and are pretty good. I give it a B-.

The two that I have highlighted (bold) I do not have happen. To rotate the knobs in the VC, I use the Left Mouse Button for one direction (e.g. frequency down) and the Right Mouse Button for the other (e.g. frequency up).

Mark

Mark -

Thanks for those tips. I have put together a folder of tweaks and tips on the 727 gleaned from this board. You and others have come up with some great finds and suggestions. Sooner or later I'm sure I'll purchase this airplane. Good work!

B. Scott

Some observations on the autopilot and flight director.
I tried making an ILS using the autopilot and flight director.

I vectored myself well outside the outer marker for a 30 degree intercept for the LOC and level flight at 3,000 feet. Autopilot set to altitude hold and heading select.

I selected G/S AUTO which should intercept the LOC first then the G/S from below. Heading select did not trip off to intercept the LOC. I took off heading select and the autopilot then started to capture the LOC.

The autopilot flew the ILS as expected after that. The flight director which was also selected to G/S AUTO on the other hand did nothing but follow the ADI.

G/S AUTO should be used to intercept the ILS when below the glide slope. Using G/S MANUAL will cause the autopilot to intercept both the LOC and G/S right now! G/S MANUAL is used when you are above the glide slope or when you are already on both the LOC & G/S. In older 727's this would EXTEND the glide slope and re-sensitize the G/S signal if on a long final. As you approach the runway, the G/S signal is desensitized by the auto pilot so as to lessen the pitch movements as you get closer.

Don't forget this is 50 year old stuff! The newer planes are MUCH more advanced and make wonderful auto-lands. I have made many auto-lands at very low RVR's in 767 and 757's that were flawless. The 727 is not such an animal and the auto pilot is, shall we say, old.

Success with the auto pilot in the 727 requires giving the old gal smooth intercepts - around 30 degrees, and being on speed for the flap setting so as not to cause large pitch changes.

I hope this helps.

Lou

I would like to add a couple of things to my earlier post.

Changing the NAV/COM settings using the Mouse Wheel only changes the frequency down, so delta dog is correct (it just depends on how you try to change the frequencies).

On the VC Autopilot controls, my HDG HOLD won't turn off regardless of RMB or LMB attemps! I have to use the 2D Autopilot. Turning it on works fine on the VC Autopilot.

Another thing is this. Clicking with RMB or LMB on COM1 dial for the primary (?) part of the frequency (123.95) changes the number by 2 places. e.g. if I want change it from 123.95 to 124.95 and use the RMB the frequency becomes 125.95 with a single click. This doesn't happen with COM2! It is easier to use COM2 because of this.

@LOU. Thanks for pointing out how the Autopilot AUTO G/S and MANUAL G/S work. Is that how it works in a real 727 or in the Captain Sim 727 or in both? In the mean time I will go and give that a try.

Mark

Lou -

Excellent info! Thank you for the feedback. Although you didn't actually say so, It sounds to me like like the auto pilot and flight director work pretty much as they should, and are, in fact, an accurate representation of the real deal. Would appreciate a confirmation if you're at a point that you are satisfied that they are.

Mark -

More good tips on working the dials. Thanks.

B. Scott

The prior note about the auto pilot is how the real 727-100 works. The 727-200 had a newer type auto pilot that was much better than the -100.

As for the Flight Director??? I don't think it does much. I tried hand flying the ILS using the F/D and it never did anything but mirror what ever the ADI was doing. When I would fly left or right of the LOC or above or below the G/S it never gave a command to correct me either in G/S AUTO or MAN. In the real 727 the "yellow bird" as it was called was a superb flight director that was very stable and easy to fly.

Lou

Lou -

Okay, I now interpret this to mean that the Auto Pilot and Flight Director in the CS 727 do NOT work as they should.

Bruce

The autopilot is close.

The heading select should trip off at LOC capture.
The rest of the autopilot worked OK on my version 2.4.

As for the flight director...it did not do anything but appear on the ADI.

Okay, the Heading Select does not automatically disengage as the ac intercepts the Localizer. It must be manually de-selected. But the Auto Pilot then fly's the localizer and the glide-slope as it should the rest of the way. The trick then is to de-select the Heading Hold just before capture of the localizer. Also to always intersect the Glide-slope from below. I can live with that. Thanks.

More on autopilot operations on the CS-727.

I just flew a bunch of ILS autopilot approaches to see how the CS-727 works. It is remarkable how this software simulates the real 727.

In past posts I reported that the heading select switch did not trip off on LOC intercept. Well, after several ILS approaches, one after another I want to report that the autopilot worked very well.

I set up the plane on an intercept heading of around 30 degrees to the localizer and on the initial approach altitude for the ILS selected and about 10 miles from the airport. I set up the autopilot & F/D in altitude hold and heading select. I released the plane from pause and selected G/S AUTO on both the autopilot and the F/D. I slowed to around 160 KTS with flaps 15 which is a normal setting for this phase of the approach. Give the autopilot a chance to do it's thing by not rushing the approach. During these approaches, the autopilot and F/D both captured the LOC and gave the correct turn information. The heading select did trip off each time during these approaches as it should. With the LOC captured and the plane at 160 KTS and flaps 15 degrees I am now trucking towards the runway. As the G/S comes alive select gear down. One dot to G/S intercept select flaps 30 degrees and as the plane pitches down at G/S intercept adjust power to maintain speed. For these approaches I set the fuel load to 20,000 # and I used around 125 KTS on final. All was pretty much routine except the F/D altitude hold switch did not trip to off, but the F/D did in fact show proper information during the approach.

Note on the F/D... To get "all angle capture" by the F/D you must first select HEADING SELECT and be in that mode for a few seconds before selecting G/S AUTO. The F/D will remain in heading select and can be controlled with the heading knob up until capture of the LOC. If you do not do this heading select first and go directly to G/S AUTO the F/D will program a 45 degree intercept. Not a big deal, but this will give you the option of guiding the plane to an intercept heading during vectoring.

Take note of the approach progress display group of lights on the instrument panel. They show the modes of the autopilot and the F/D as they go through the various arm & capture modes.

I hope this information helps. It's a bit technical, but simmers like myself enjoy the detail. I find this CS-727 to be a blast and a lot of fond memories of the old plane which was always fun to fly.

BTW the "don't sink" voice sang out from around 1,000 feet to about 100 feet during the approaches  >:(

Hi Lou.

Some questions for you. If you don't mind.

1. Have you have added the electric_always_available=1 to you aircraft.cfg?
2. If you haven't added that line, are you having trouble with loss of avionics power?
3. If you haven't added that line AND you aren't having that problem, could you please guide us through what you do from a Cold-n-Dark cockpit to the knob/button settings for maintaining power?

If the answer to #1 is yes, then the rest other questions don't matter. Of  course. Thanks in advance.

I am finding all you recent information in here very helpful, and I'm looking forward to hear more.

Mark

Lou -

That last reply was quite clear and much appreciated. Apparently all is correct with the AP & FD except that the *Altitude Hold* did not trip off when the GS was intercepted. But even so the AP tracked the GS properly all the way down.

The rest of the information is quite helpful as well. It is evident that you give the CS 727 a thumbs up! Many thanks!!

Bruce

Some questions for you. If you don't mind.
1. Have you have added the electric_always_available=1 to you aircraft.cfg?
2. If you haven't added that line, are you having trouble with loss of avionics power?
3. If you haven't added that line AND you aren't having that problem, could you please guide us through what you do from a Cold-n-Dark cockpit to the knob/button settings for maintaining power?

Markoz,

I have not added anything to the .cfg file and as long as I keep the engines running I have no problem with loss of power.

Let's see if I can remember all the steps to get the old bird fired up from the cold....

1. Cockpit safety check. Hyd pump switches off, gear, gear doors and flaps handles agree - you don't want anything moving until clear.
2. Battery ON - check voltage
3. Fire test APU then start up APU.
   Check volts and freqs of APU and close AGR to connect to aircraft busses. Essential power to APU
   Note: I do not find a master avionics switch on the pilots overhead??? I wonder how the radios are turned on???
4. On F/E panel make sure all bleed valves are open - packs off - to get engine start air. Manifold pressure around 40 psi.
   If you're not starting engines at this time, turn on packs for air temp control in plane.
5. When clear by ground - HYD B pumps on. Make sure brakes are parked or chocked.
6. Load fuel to desired level.
7. Turn off packs to start engines.
8. As each engine is started, F/E checks engine gen volts and freq [ 115 volts & 400 cycles ]
   Select Essential Power to engine one and close MGR to change over power from APU. Do same with each engine.
9. After engine start, turn on A/C packs.

That should get you started... :D

The more I play with the CS-727 the more fun I have! It's pretty good indeed.
If you could have seen the multi-million dollar simulator we had in the 60's you would laugh.
Now, today, the simulators we train in are super, but back then the CS-727 would have been heaven.
I wish I would have kept my old 727 books.

Lou

Quote:

8. As each engine is started, F/E checks engine gen volts and freq [ 115 volts & 400 cycles ]    Select Essential Power to engine one and close MGR to change over power from APU. Do same with each engine.

Hi Lou.

Thank you for that.

I was able to follow it all except for the close MGR. I couldn't find it. Can you please tell me where it is?


Quote:

If you could have seen the multi-million dollar simulator we had in the 60's you would laugh. Now, today, the simulators we train in are super, but back then the CS-727 would have been heaven. I wish I would have kept my old 727 books.

I can imagine. I joined the Australian Army in 1979 and was in the Royal Australian Corps of Signals. Where I worked, we were using a computer that was built in the early 60's, and it was the size of a house! I reckon that most modern Desktop Computers would blow it away when it comes to computations. It was that big computer that got me into computers in the first place.

Mark

The MGR ( Main Generator Relay ) is located on the F/E panel.

The AGR (Aux Generator Relay) is located on the APU panel.

There is also an Essential Power Selector switch, which powers critical instruments and has multiple ways to get its power.

On the F/E panel each engine driven generator is driven by a CSD (Constant Speed Drive) which allows the generator to spin at 6,600 rpm regardless of engine RPM.

So, looking at each generator on the F/E panel from bottom up, you have the CSD knob to adjust the generator cycles to 400, then you have the GFR (Generator Field Relay) which turns the generator on and off by taking the PMG (Permanent Magnetic Field) voltage and feeding this into a transformer to build up the voltage to 115 volts A.C. With the GFR open you would get just the voltage of the magnet spinning which gives maybe 15 or so volts. But, by feeding this small voltage into a transformer the voltage is increased to the 115 volts.

Next in the stack, you have the MGR (Main Generator Relay) which connects the generator to its respective load bus. Each generator can power its respective load bus. However, one generator can power the whole aircraft through the next relay called the BTR (Bus Tie Relay).

With just one generator powering the plane via the BTR there is no magic, you are just plugging in more load buses to the single generator.
When you tie two or three generators together they must be in sync. Thus the BTR's become a Sync Bus with many possible faults associated with putting multiple electrical sources together.

That's the down and dirty of the 727 A.C. system.

D.C. is made from the A.C. using TR's (Transformer Rectifiers) which take the 115 volt 400 cycle A.C. and turns it into 28 volt D.C. The D.C. is used to run relays to control bigger load A.C. motors and various small load items such as lights, instruments and radios.

Does this help, or is it too much data?

Lou

Thanks for that Lou.

No such thing as too much info for me. Well... Maybe there is.

I'm adding all the information you are providing (and understand) into a text file so I can follow your advice to get the most out of the CS727.

My ILS landings are now much better than ever before. I'm getting a much better understanding of the 727 and how to do things "right" with it. I'm enjoying it even more than before (I was enjoying it so much already and now even more!).

Keep it coming! We are lucky to have you with your wealth of information. I appreciate it very much and I'm sure that others do too. Thank you.

Mark

EDIT: I found no mention of the MGR ( Main Generator Relay ) in the cs727_manual3.pdf (Part III - Operations), and I can not find it on the F/E Panels. It looks like Captain Sim don't simulate this, along with the Avionics Switch.

Are they the ones that the manual refers to GEN BREAKERS? There are 3 of them, one for each engine, on the FE Panel.

http://home.comcast.net/~lou.lynn/FE-727.jpg

See if this helps.... 8-)

I know you'll have questions about: KVAR, Sync Lights, Residual Voltage.

Ask and I'll try to explain.

Lou

Thanks Lou. That did the trick. I had found everything else via the manual and searching around the FE Panel/Station.

On page 71 of the 727 Manual Part II - Aircraft and Systems, Captain Sim call them the "Generator Breaker Switches". That was why I couldn't find them. LOL

According to the Manual, what you call the BTR - CS call "Bus Tie Breaker Switches" and the Field Generator Relay - CS call "Generator Field Switches".

Mark

Well, I will probably never get into it this deep. I am, at least up until now, a *Control E* guy. I am not really interested in systems much more detailed than the default ones. I may at some point attempt the cold/dark start, but that's iffy. I'm 72 and don't want to freeze to death at the gate in a cold/dark computer cockpit!

I am satisfied that the auto pilot on the CS 727 works pretty much as it should and I can figure out how to use it, but now my questions are:

1.) Can you use the FSX Flight planner and import the flight plan into the CS 727 and will the CS AP follow the plan? I have never used just the NAV radios or DME or ADF to navigate. I either fly GPS direct using the AP, or just let ATC guide me IFR.

2.) Do you/can you use the FSX fuel and load planner? I saw the CS load planner, but didn't notice a fuel planner.

3. For someone fairly competent with the FSX default systems how difficult is it to learn the CS 727? What's the learning curve here?

The manual shows you every switch, knob and gauge (overwhelming for someone with no formal training) and has all the check lists, but doesn't tell you anything about how to fly the airplane. Nor do I see any Tutorials mentioned anywhere. The CS website/manuals tell you what all the features are, but nothing about how it interfaces with FSX.

I bought the PMDG737NG for FS9 and after 2 days of trying to figure it out using their tutorial & manual (which I thought was lacking probably because of language differences) I gave up. I don't want that to happen again.

Bruce

Well, I will probably never get into it this deep. I am, at least up until now, a *Control E* guy. I am not really interested in systems much more detailed than the default ones. I may at some point attempt the cold/dark start, but that's iffy. I'm 72 and don't want to freeze to death at the gate in a cold/dark computer cockpit!

Bruce, there is nothing wrong with Ctrl-E and go. This is supposed to be fun!

It would be hard to figure out all the workings of the systems without some help. The 727 is a 3 pilot aircraft with the F/E position working most of the aircraft systems. When the 2 pilot aircraft came along most of the systems became automated. Still, you had to know how the systems worked, but you did not have to fuss with them as much. On the 777 and 787 almost everything is automated even the rudder is automatic in the event of an engine failure.

I am satisfied that the auto pilot on the CS 727 works pretty much as it should and I can figure out how to use it, but now my questions are:

1.) Can you use the FSX Flight planner and import the flight plan into the CS 727 and will the CS AP follow the plan? I have never used just the NAV radios or DME or ADF to navigate. I either fly GPS direct using the AP, or just let ATC guide me IFR.

This function of FSX is something I have never tried. However the 727-100 we flew had no computer to feed the autopilot. All flying was VOR to VOR or radar vectors. It's easy to fly VOR to VOR by using the NAV-LOC or Heading Select function of the autopilot. You can find the VOR frequencies on the map pull-down in FSX and make a manual flight plan to fly anywhere. Later, some of the 727's got GPS installed and you could connect the GPS to the autopilot and fly a route that you input into the GPS.

2.) Do you/can you use the FSX fuel and load planner? I saw the CS load planner, but didn't notice a fuel planner.

I have used the FSX payload pull-down to control the fuel, it works OK.

3. For someone fairly competent with the FSX default systems how difficult is it to learn the CS 727? What's the learning curve here?

The manual shows you every switch, knob and gauge (overwhelming for someone with no formal training) and has all the check lists, but doesn't tell you anything about how to fly the airplane. Nor do I see any Tutorials mentioned anywhere. The CS website/manuals tell you what all the features are, but nothing about how it interfaces with FSX.

The manual to show & explain all the systems would be very big. Remember, this is a game although a very complex game. The tutorial on flying the jets in FSX should get you started, but I am amazed how simmers are into the detail of the systems. For me, that is part of the fun as it must be for them too. If you are a pilot even of light planes, much of what you know can be translated to other aircraft. The complexity of the larger planes means you'll have to learn some new things, but that's part of the fun.

I bought the PMDG737NG for FS9 and after 2 days of trying to figure it out using their tutorial & manual (which I thought was lacking probably because of language differences) I gave up. I don't want that to happen again.

If you have no systems knowledge, that is a lot to learn without some help.  I hope this helps. I'm happy to answer questions on aircraft systems or hints on how to fly the 727. The bottom line is to have fun while learning!

Bruce

Hi Bruce.

1.) Can you use the FSX Flight planner and import the flight plan into the CS 727 and will the CS AP follow the plan? I have never used just the NAV radios or DME or ADF to navigate. I either fly GPS direct using the AP, or just let ATC guide me IFR.
Yes you can. I do it all the time. I usually select a High Altitude airways plan. Note. You will probably need to add a NAV/GPS switch to the Autopilot, or at least create a keyboard shortcut for it. I use SHIFT + N.

2.) Do you/can you use the FSX fuel and load planner? I saw the CS load planner, but didn't notice a fuel planner.
I use it. For short flights, I have the same quantity in all three tanks. There is no CS fuel planner foor the 727.

3. For someone fairly competent with the FSX default systems how difficult is it to learn the CS 727? What's the learning curve here?
That's a hard one for me to answer because I started using flight simulator back in 1983. BUT. Up until the middle of last year, I was a GA Flight Sim pilot only. Now I love these airliners.

You can come in here to ask for help and advice. Most of us will try to help you to achieve whatever it is that you are trying to do.

I hope this helps.

Mark

Thanks Lou & Mark -

You guys are invaluable to this forum!

Lou - Yes, it is about fun and I do have fun believe me! When I lived in Sun City Texas a few years back I had a next door neighbor who was a career 727 sim instructor for AA (never a line pilot though), and he wasn't the least bit interested in computer FS! Didn't even care to talk about it. Too bad it wasn't you, Lou. I'd still be there!!

I know how to use the map to get frequencies and other info, but just never went VOR to VOR using just the NAV radios. I should try that. I guess once I learned how to get from A to B using the GPS and AP, and how to get up and down VFR and IFR I felt that was all I needed to learn and I could go anywhere in the world.

Mark - You have answered my main concerns regarding the FSX FLT PLNs and GPS interface. I always choose GPS Direct because the GPS then shows remaining mileage and estimated time all the way to the destination, whereas with High Altitude Airways or VOR to Vor the GPS only shows mileage and time to the next waypoint or VOR.

Seems I saw a thread here about adding a NAV/GPS switch at some point. I would rather do that than a key stroke, however I suppose I could map it to a yoke or throttle switch.

Well, I guess it's time for me to put up or shut up!! I was on a cruise when CS had the sale in December so I guess I'll have to pay full price which is pretty steep, but I do want this airplane!

Thanks again gents, you have been most helpful. I'll be back with more questions I'm sure!

Bruce

Hi,

Sorry to butt in on this conversation, but I was reading what you were saying about navigation and would like to ask a couple of questions.  You say nav was done VOR-VOR - do you mean like if you select VOR to VOR in the FSX Flight Planner?  If so, this is where I'm a little confused, because I always thought airways were followed by airliners, but if you select to navigate by airways, the waypoints aren't always VOR's, so this is quite difficult.  As I like to fly FSX as realistically as possible, how can I navigate by airways (as you did in the real world I guess) using the radio nav equipment, and how do I plan these flights?

Thanks,
Tom

Sorry to butt in on this conversation, but I was reading what you were saying about navigation and would like to ask a couple of questions.  You say nav was done VOR-VOR - do you mean like if you select VOR to VOR in the FSX Flight Planner?  If so, this is where I'm a little confused, because I always thought airways were followed by airliners, but if you select to navigate by airways, the waypoints aren't always VOR's, so this is quite difficult.  As I like to fly FSX as realistically as possible, how can I navigate by airways (as you did in the real world I guess) using the radio nav equipment, and how do I plan these flights?

Thanks,
Tom

OK Tom, I'll try to do a thumb nail of Airways and VOR's

http://home.comcast.net/~lou.lynn/chart.jpg

This is a bit of an enroute chart. It is hard to read even in real life since there is a lot of information on the chart.
I have drawn a VERY simple map to explain how in the old days - and still today - how airways are flown.

http://home.comcast.net/~lou.lynn/jet-chart.jpg

I show a few VOR's named A, B, C & D and intersections E & F.
You could fly airway J-300 from VOR A to C via VOR B.
You could also fly J-300 to B then J-250 to E intersection and then J-150 to C.

In the high altitude structure (above 18,000 feet) airways are called Jet Routes or just J.

Since you are above 18,000 feet the line of sight distance - VHF Nav is line of sight - can be fairly far.
Line of sight at 35,000 feet is around 300 miles so you could fly out from one VOR on a radial to intercept
a radial from a distant VOR that you cannot receive until you get in range.
You can also fly to intersections made up by two VOR radials using radial to radial and or DME.
You could in the above picture fly from C VOR on J-150 Via the 230 degree radial
to intercept the 360 degree radial of D VOR at intersection F.

This is a VERY simple example, but thats how it's done.
With GPS or LNAV direct routes can be flown, but in the Jurassic Jet
we had no such fancy instruments or radios.  ;D

Hope that helps....if not ask!

Lou

Wow thanks very much for your answer Lou!  Very helpful, much appreciated.

I find these sorts of flights very difficult to plan in Flight Simulator, because the FSX flight planner doesn't tell you which airways follow which VOR radials and likewise for the intersections. Also, certainly in European airspace (where most of my sim flying is done), airways don't seem to always correspond to VOR radials - unless I just can't find them because of the way the flight planner is set out!

Do you have any advice for planning these routes for FSX - as it isn't clear which VORs and which radials the airways and intersections correspond with?!

Many thanks,
Tom

Hi Tom.

I have FS Commander 8.6 that I use for planning flights. I bought it through another company (Sorry Captain Sim :(), and I find it very helpful for making flight plans.

You might want to consider Flight Operation Center: F.O.C from them instead (also from another company), but I don't know how good or bad that one is. I've thought about it but because I already have FSC, I might be wasting money. It does look like it would be good though.

Mark

Tom,

I have never used the FSX planner so I'm of no help there, however you can go online and download both low and high charts from various places including the FAA. There is a small fee, but you will only have to pay once since you won't have to keep them current. Maybe you can find a pilot that lives in your area and ask to obtain the charts he discards each month when he does his revisions.

What is really fun in the newer planes like the 767/757/747-400 you can fully program the FMC computer. Wait until you see how complex that item is. The book I had in the real plane was huge.

The journey of a 1,000 miles starts with the first step...  :-?  Start waking!

Lou

Okay---not fun anymore!  ;D

Lou, don't know how new you are to all this, but with your knowledge and experience you need the (CS won't allow competitor names) stuff. Complete FMS, SIDS, STARS and the whole  nine yards! you can be back at work in no time!!

Bruce

Bruce,

I have some brand X stuff as well with the FMC.
Sometimes you just want to take it around the patch and shoot a few landings.
That's where Crtl-E and go is just right.

I have a J-5 Cub S.N. 710 built 4th of March 1941 with no electrical system,
no radio, no nothing but your butt to help you go for a ride.

http://home.comcast.net/~lou.lynn/lou.jpg

Now that is basic flying!  8-)

Lou -

No radio?? Is that legal? No electrical??? Doesn't sound right. Neat looking airplane with the wheel boots (or whatever they're called). Are they really good for 10 more kts?

I've fooled around with the Cub and the 172 in FS9 &  FSX a few times and it just doesn't seem like you get anywhere.

When I lived in KY I had a buddy that was a retired Col. B-52 driver and I would go up with him in a rented Warrior about once a month.

Seems like all the for real commercial pilots like those little bitty airplanes. They all say that is REAL flying. And I suppose it is.

I have been fascinated by airports and commercial airliners since the mid 50s when I joined the USMCR and flew DC3s to San Diego from Milwaukee for summer camp at Camp Pendleton. That was something!

Then in 1962 I went to work for PAA (reservation agent) right out of college and rode on 707s and 727s a half dozen trips a year. One day I heard on my car radio that UAL was hiring FEs and all you needed for an interview was a private license and 2 years of college. Then I heard a commercial for Atlas Aviation at Stapleton. $5 got you a30 minute demo ride in a Cessna. I bombed over there right then and took the ride. I remember taxiing to the active with a 727 behind us and a DC8 in front. The noise and the smell of jet fuel burning and the rapid fire atc ground, that I could not understand, intimidated me! The instructor had me land the plane while he worked the throttle and told me what to do and it was smooth as glass. I went back to my desk at Pan Am and that was that!! Oh, I didn't mention--- I was a real white knuckle flier until about 20 years ago (but I never passed up a trip)!

Sorry for the rambling!

Bruce

Lou.... You have not found any issues with the main trim? Yours doesn't operate too fast? I can't get the plane trimmed out with the trim al lscrewed up.

Jetpilot,

Yes the trim is a bit fast if you use the "Main Trim" - which would in the real plane be the left set of buttons on the captains yoke, or the right set in the F/O's side - button on your joy stick.

I use very short hits on the button and seem to do OK.

There is a cruise trim [half speed] switch on the throttle pedestal to the lower right. You can use the mouse left and right buttons to get a slower rate of trim. To me that's just too much trouble so I just give short hits on the joystick trim buttons. You can assign most extra buttons on the joystick to do that function.

Hope that helps.

Lou

I fly the 727 as well and I find the main elecric trim issue inexcusable. I can never get the trim set correctly when using the main trim on approach. There should be 2 different speeds on the main trim as well. When the triming nose down and the trim is between 0 and 1.5 units the trim is automatically transfered to the autopilot cruise trim motor. A nose up trim input switches bac kto the main trim motor. There is only one speed modelled.

Why not just change the rate for the joystick/yoke trim settings in options - settings - controls - buttons/keys? As I have shown in the pic :-

http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv58/Markoz958/JoystickTrimSettings.jpg

With the setting that 727 points to. It's one click and setting adjusts up or down a bit. Even if you hold the button down it will still only move that one click. That one click is a pretty big one in the 727 though. :(

Mark

TRIM

Here is a quick tour of the center pedestal in the 727
http://home.comcast.net/~lou.lynn/trim.jpg

In the photo above, I point out some of the Stabilizer Trim controls in the 727.
There are 4 ways to move the stabilizer trim in the 727.
1. Main electric trim on the pilots control wheel, using the thumb switch in real life, or the joystick trim switches.
2. Cruise trim switch on the lower right of the pedestal. (Slow rate)
3. Manual. You can use a flip-out handle on the big black wheel and crank in trim. CAREFUL here in real life as this wheel could break your arm if your not careful and someone hit the trim button. So in the real world you would have to use the cutout switches on the lower right of the pedestal. In CS-727 they don't seem to shutoff the trim, but they should. You can move the trim wheel with your mouse.
4. The Autopilot can trim the stab as well.

I agree the main trim is wild!

Lou

Lou...

Do you remember the song for engine failures.... Essential Power, Galley Power, Cargo Heat & Packs, Power the bus, Check the load and Don't exceed the max!.   :)

Who did you fly for?

JP,

Yeah, the only memory item we had was CHECK ESSENTIAL!
I flew for TWA from May 1968 to January 2001 when AA bought TWA.
AA sent us to DAL to get under their OS and I flew as AA until November 2005 (age 60)
I flew the 727, 707, 747, 767 and 757. The 757 was a wonderful plane.
As you know since you flew the 727, the 757 would climb better on one engine than the 727 did with all three running.
At TWA we called the 727 "The Pig!" Every one of the 727 had a pig name. I remember "Swine Flew", "Trough Aloft" and there were so many more. In the CS-727 painted in TWA colors, the plane name is City of Frankfort. I flew 7844 many times based in Berlin. TWA has a small domicile there in the 80's with 727-100's. We were based in Berlin a month at a time and only flew the corridor. It was a great time! Each 727 had a German city name, and each night we were back in Berlin.

Lou

OK..... I have a question about TWA planes that has bothered me for a long long time. We had an ex TWA-100 in our fleet. Why in Gods name did TWA order their aircraft with all the overhead and engineer panel switchs the revers of normal? Every time I got into that airplane it took me about 5 days to get used to it. When cleared for TO I would always try to throw the landing light switches foward and they wouldn't move and then I realized I was in the TWA plane. Same above 10,000 I would go to turn them off and then realize I have to move them the other way. I hated TWA for a long time!  :)

Yeah the 727 was not a stellar climber. Even worse we had a -200's with -7 engines. We called it the 150. It was quite horrible.

Lou -

Way back in my Pan Am days we heard some bizarre stories about a rogue TWA Captain with the nickname Hoot Gibson. Did you know him??

Bruce

JP,

TWA ordered their Boeing's that way because of one old fart who decided he knew more than the folks that built the plane in the first place.

The overhead panel was considered a vertical panel, thus to turn on something, you flipped the switch up. That's the long and short of it. This carried through to the F/E panel which as you may remember had the A/C panel also upside down. Same stupid idea. It drove me nuts as a F/E because we had leased planes from National and Northeast that were normal Boeing planes.

Now it gets fun...

When the L-1011 came along, it had as standard equipment, a third horizon located just to the right of the Captains instrument panel. It was included in this new plane because of the United 727 that crashed with loss of horizons because of A/C power loss. The third, or stand-by horizon was battery powered. Well this same old fool said TWA did not need such an instrument and told Lockheed to take it out. They did at a cost of some large dollars.

When the L-1011 came on-line, the FAA said that ALL planes will have a stand-by horizon. TWA told Lockheed to put back the 3rd horizon. Lockheed said OK, but that will cost X amount of dollars.  :D

So now you have the rest of the story...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bruce,

As for Hoot, he got a bad rap because the FAA (and Boeing) tried to blame him for the event that made plane # 7831 go supersonic over DTW during an event that is very complex, but I think was caused by a bad A-system rudder actuator.

As an instructor in the 727 both as F/E check airman and Captain check airman, we were aware of many problems with un-commanded rudder movements on Boeing planes. This was the Toyota of the air at that time. You may remember a United 737 crash at COS that they tried to blame on the crew. All the airlines had events of some sort with the rudder on various Boeing planes. It was not until the USAir crash near PIT that it came to a head. All the actuators were changed and the problem went away.

For Hoot that night over DTW here is what I think the chain of events were...

They were at FL390, maybe a bit heavy, but the -100 was better than the -200 at being high and heavy. The plane was on autopilot and the crew noticed the yoke was commanding a turn. Remember that this was a early 60's plane with a dumb autopilot. The autopilot had only 2 channels - roll and pitch. The 727 was the most swept wing plane in the airlines and was prone to dutch roll. High and fast were not good when you had dutch roll. The 727 had 2 yaw dampers and needed them big time. If you lost one damper you descended RIGHT NOW into thicker air and slowed down, because loss of the second damper made for an interesting ride, the industry called a hull loss!

So here is old Hoot at FL-390 or 410 in a 727 and guess what... they get an un-commanded rudder input. From the transcript it was a wild ride indeed. The A rudder goes hard to one side. The autopilot sees the yaw and counters with aileron input. After a certain amount of aileron, the 727 adds spoiler to the up aileron to counter adverse yaw. The device that controlled the mix of aileron and spoiler was called the "aileron mixer spoiler ratio changer." In any event at high altitude the last thing these folks needed was spoilers to add drag. The autopilot had the yoke full over to try and maintain heading. The buffet from the spoilers was intense. Imagine, looking at the yoke full to one side, the shaking and buffet, and trying to understand what was going on!

The pilot's first move was to disconnect the autopilot. When you disconnect the autopilot, the wheel which was holding full aileron to counter yaw, went to neutral - RIGHT NOW! Remember the A, or lower rudder ( the 727 has a split rudder - A, bottom and B, upper) was hard to one side. With the aileron returned to neutral the rudder caused the plane to yaw, which resulted in a roll and spiral as the nose fell. Airspeed built up very fast and as JP will remember the 727 was very noisy in the cockpit above 300 kts IAS.

Now the plane was in a steep spiral dive building speed. As the plane passed Mach .90 the noise was so loud that voice was unusable. Soon, old #7831 went through Mach 1.0 in a tight spiral heading for the ground. The F/O pointed to the gear handle to try to slow the beast down. Hoot pointed his hand down! As the gear extended, above Mach 1, the gear door departed the aircraft.

The main gear, as it extends normally has a rearward movement. The gear came out into the Mach 1+ air and moved aft with such force that it ripped the drag brace from the spar. The A system hydraulic line was broken and A system pressure was lost. The loss of A system ended the rudder hard over and the turn stopped. The plane was still in a steep dive at Mach 1+ and the ground was coming up fast. As the crew pulled the nose up to end the dive one of the right wing leading edge slats, whose up-lock had failed, extended into the fast air and departed the plane. This was moot since A system was lost anyway and a landing without leading edge flaps and slats was the least of their worries.

The plane landed in DTW and as you can guess there was a lot of laundry to do during post flight! The FAA and Boeing (deep pockets) tried to say the event was caused by the pilots extending trailing edge flaps to make lift at high altitude. They claimed the slat was lost because of this crew action. Nobody that flew the 727 believed that. After many years of careful exam of the FDR and the trail of evidence of parts falling off the plane, it was shown that the slat was shed at the end of the event, not the beginning.

Years later, old #7831 was based in Berlin, where I logged many hours in this -100. The plane had all sorts of plates to re-enforce the left wing and it flew a bit bent, but it flew on.

Maybe a bit more history than you needed about Hoot, but there you have it.

Lou

We had one of the TWA -100's and it was a pain in the @ss as it was differen't from every other one we had. It was also the only one with the early pressurization panel.

All in all the 727 was a really nice plane. Especially comming from the DC-8 which was a really horrible plane to fly.

The 727's we had were freighter conversions and actually had most of the insulation removed to save weight so it was louder than normal and very cold. The 72 cockpit is not a quiet place.

Lou -

That was a great story about Capt. Gibson!!! I remember that it had to do with lowering the gear to slow down, but did not know the real story. Enjoyed every word!! Weren't you ever worried flying that same ac so many times afterward?

You have a great knack for explaining things in detail while at the same time making them interesting. You are a terrific resource for this forum!!

Bruce

Even though this thread is dated, I love all the valuable info everyone has given. I am new to the 727 and this thread (and others) help me understand the ins and outs of this lovely bird.

Manfred

Advice from Lou is very helpful! Could you comment on technique for localizer capture. I try to fly an accurate localizer intercept, say from a DME arc, but this ends in a nearly ninety degree intercept which has me overshooting the LOC and by the time I get back on the LOC the glideslope is below. Should one add a couple of miles to the DME arc to allow some distance for making the intercept at a finer angle? I assume that one should never attempt glideshop capture before getting on the localizer. Keeping NAV 1 and 2 needles on the RMI selected intelligently to the available navaids seems to be useful. Your advice would be appreciated, Lou.

Could you comment on technique for localizer capture. I try to fly an accurate localizer intercept, say from a DME arc, but this ends in a nearly ninety degree intercept which has me overshooting the LOC and by the time I get back on the LOC the glideslope is below. Should one add a couple of miles to the DME arc to allow some distance for making the intercept at a finer angle

Just try and fly a traffic pattern. Fly downwind about 5 or 6 miles from the airport. Let's say the runway is north / south and you are landing on runway 36 (north). Fly a no wind heading of 180 degrees and have the plane level around 3,000 feet above ground level with flaps 15 degrees and around 160 KTS.

Tune the OM NDB to the frequency listed in the MAP pull-down. You can get all the information you need for the airport and runway by mouse over on the MAP pull-down located at the top left menu bar under the heading WORLD. Get all the nav aids set-up in advance so there is no rushing during the approach. If your airport does not have a NDB in the OM, find one that does.

Use the NDB indicator to see where you are in reference to the OM. Flip the paddle to NDB on the RMI card this will give you magnetic bearing to the OM as you fly the traffic pattern. As you fly abeam the OM for your runway the RMI/NDB will point 90 degrees to the left (if you are flying a left hand traffic pattern). Fly past the OM for a few minutes. The needle is now pointing to the 8 o'clock position on the RMI/NDB.

Start a left turn to 090 degrees and when on the 090 heading look at the NDB needle. It should be pointing at around 10 o'clock on the NDB indicator. You are landing on runway 36 and the RMI/NDB should show you about 020 degree bearing to the station (OM). You should be at flaps 15 and 160 KTS. and 3,000 feet AGL. As the RMI/NDB starts to show 15 to 10 degrees, start a left turn towards the runway. If you are 5 miles outside the OM this should give you ample time to intercept the LOC. Keep an eye on the RMI/NDB needle as it nears the bearing of 005 degrees the LOC should be coming alive. Fly all of this on the autopilot so you can see what is happening.

If you want to cheat you can have the GPS open in it's own window to see your progress, but the 727-100's rarely had a GPS so we learned to fly using VOR/DME and NDB. Use the heading select to turn (vector) the plane and intercept the LOC. Five miles outside the OM you should be below the G/S and you are now ready for the approach. While tracking the LOC, as the G/S comes alive put the gear down. When the G/S is one dot from intercept select flaps 30 degrees. Steer the plane in heading select and you can use the pitch knob on the autopilot to pitch down to follow the G/S. If this is too hard, you can select AUTO G/S before the G/S comes alive and just adjust the power to keep the approach speed as you descend. If you are around 125,000 pounds for landing a speed of 125 to 130 KTS should be OK. Look for a FF (fuel flow) of around 2,500 pounds per engine. Adjust as needed to keep the speed.

Let me know if this helps... 8-)

Lou

LOU wrote on Mar 9^th, 2010 at 4:23am:

Some questions for you. If you don't mind. 1. Have you have added the electric_always_available=1 to you aircraft.cfg? 2. If you haven't added that line, are you having trouble with loss of avionics power? 3. If you haven't added that line AND you aren't having that problem, could you please guide us through what you do from a Cold-n-Dark cockpit to the knob/button settings for maintaining power? Markoz, I have not added anything to the .cfg file and as long as I keep the engines running I have no problem with loss of power. Let's see if I can remember all the steps to get the old bird fired up from the cold.... 1. Cockpit safety check. Hyd pump switches off, gear, gear doors and flaps handles agree - you don't want anything moving until clear. 2. Battery ON - check voltage 3. Fire test APU then start up APU.    Check volts and freqs of APU and close AGR to connect to aircraft busses. Essential power to APU    Note: I do not find a master avionics switch on the pilots overhead??? I wonder how the radios are turned on??? 4. On F/E panel make sure all bleed valves are open - packs off - to get engine start air. Manifold pressure around 40 psi.    If you're not starting engines at this time, turn on packs for air temp control in plane. 5. When clear by ground - HYD B pumps on. Make sure brakes are parked or chocked. 6. Load fuel to desired level. 7. Turn off packs to start engines. 8. As each engine is started, F/E checks engine gen volts and freq [ 115 volts & 400 cycles ]    Select Essential Power to engine one and close MGR to change over power from APU. Do same with each engine. 9. After engine start, turn on A/C packs. That should get you started... :D The more I play with the CS-727 the more fun I have! It's pretty good indeed. If you could have seen the multi-million dollar simulator we had in the 60's you would laugh. Now, today, the simulators we train in are super, but back then the CS-727 would have been heaven. I wish I would have kept my old 727 books. Lou

Hy Sir

I bought CS 727 last week and dispite the beauty of the aircraft it self I beguin To face natural dificulties due the transition of the others airliners of CS and others editors.
The first was about the use of autopilot, that I turn around with more or less dificulty and with precious and of the others members of this forum.
But one remains and caused To send a ticket To CS support that was closed by CS saying that the error was in most cases from users witch don't read the manuals, in most cases is true, because the answers are in these manuals witch in this case don't seam to be true.
So the problem is a well known by you Sir and is about the misterious (for me), loss of the avionics and consequently loss of the autopilot after more or less 8 minutes of shuting down the APU. I have read carefuly your post about this problem with another member and the 3 manuals of CS and did not find why this happens. I followed rigorosly the procedures from you and from the manuals and the end is the same. Solution for me is turn on the APU when it shuts  down et voila I have the avionics and autopilot back. I believe that the error is certanly something that escape from me but I'm shure that the solution is not on the manuals. Oh One more thing: in fact when I beguin a flight from flight 727-100 Cold and Dark Ksea, this problem don't exist, simply don't loose the avionics and the flight goes well.

Can you help about this Sir? Hope not be boaring.
Regards
Antonio

Hi Antonio.

I also had the problem, which is why I asked Lou the questions, but I no longer have them. Some things which might help either prevent, or get through, the loss of avionics power.

1. Create a keyboard command for the Avionics Master (on/off). I use CTRL+SHIFT+A. Use the keyboard command to turn the avionics on when needed.
2. If you have a registered version of FSUIPC, you can give infinite battery life to your aircraft by going to Miscellaneous > Extend battery life (indefinitely if value equals 0, else by factor). Set it to 0
3. Add the line electric_always_available=1 to the [electrical] section of the aircraft.cfg

Any of these should solve your problem.

1. Create a keyboard command for the Avionics Master (on/off). I use CTRL+SHIFT+A. Use the keyboard command to turn the avionics on when needed.

[b]How to create this command and where I put it?[/b]

3. Add the line electric_always_available=1 to the [electrical] section of the aircraft.cfg

Any of these should solve your problem.[/quote]

By Sir

Thanks for replay.
But how o create the command? Besides Ctrl+SHIFT+A is defined To select ADF in Fsx.

Antonio

Quote:

But how o create the command? Besides Ctrl+SHIFT+A is defined To select ADF in Fsx.

I rarely used CTRL+SHIFT+A for the ADF, so I simply use it for the Avionics Master (on/off).
You can use whatever Key Combination you want. There are plenty of others that are not in use, I simply chose the one that was originally used for the ADF. Here is how:


Settings > Controls > Buttons/Keys
Then set the Event category: to Radios (1)
Highlight Avionics master (on/off) (2)
Click on New Assignment  (3)
Press CTRL + SHIFT + A (or whatever Key Combination you want), then click on OK.
Your done.

http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv58/Markoz958/Avionics_Master_zps6589ea48.jpg

Hy Mark

Thanks for your care.
Let me ask you a last question, the problem that you have like me disapered as for magick or you solved it with the solutions you sugest?

Regards
Antonio

Quote:

the problem that you have like me disapered as for magick or you solved it with the solutions you sugest?

I don't know what I did to make it disappear.

Originally, I used the electric_always_available=1, to stop it happening.
Next. I used CTRL+SHIFT+A to turn the avionics back on when they turned off.
Then I used FSUIPC to Extend battery life (indefinitely if value equals 0, else by factor), by setting the value to 0.

One other thing I used to do to get the avionics back and working, was to press CTRL+E, the default for engine start, because it turned the avionics back on and they never disappeared again during the flight. This did not cause the engines to be shut down and then restart either, it only turned the avionics back on. So it was another work-around.

All of these worked as a way of getting around the avionics turning OFF after about 10 to 15 minutes. I do not use any of these fixes any more. A few weeks after I asked Lou those questions, and got his reply, everything was working like it should. I honestly think I was missing something that eventually allowed the avionics to turn OFF after 10 or 15 minutes, but to this day, I don't know what I was missing that caused it.

Well

I want To thank you for your great help to me and certanly for more of us.
But I think that CS should give to all of us a sort of read me file concerning this situations and why they happens and the solutions. I love this particulary aircraft ,( I have CSs b757/777 to),and it diserves it.

See you and nove more thank you  :)
Antonio

Ps: I must thank also for the sugestion of you about the switch nav/gps. Very usefull for long flights  :D

You're welcome. :)

HY Mark

I have bad news  :( With me don´t work Avionics on/of. They shut down dispite switch it. And the command is well done because when I have APU running I can switch the avionics on/off. So I continue need switch on APU to have avionics.
I´l try put the line in aircraft .cfg and see what happens.

Regards
Antonio

One good thing about the APU in the CS727, is that it doesn't consume fuel. :o ;D

Hy Markoz

A long time is passed since the avionics problem was discussed. Anyway the problem persist. There is any evolution for this problem of avionics and autopilot ?

Regards
Antonio

ajandrade wrote on Sep 19^th, 2013 at 10:18pm:

Hy Markoz A long time is passed since the avionics problem was discussed. Anyway the problem persist. There is any evolution for this problem of avionics and autopilot ? Regards Antonio

Unfortunately not. I have no idea as to when the next update might be.

Note: I am not a member of the Captain Sim staff, so I do not know what their plans are in regards to the updates for the 727 (or any other product). :(

Thanks Markoz

Regards
Antonio

I just saw (and posted about) the CBS documentary on youtube, and was directed here. Fascinating! I hadn't heard about this before. That had interviews of Hoot Gibson (every "Gibson" of a certain age I ever knew was called "Hoot") and other crew and passengers. It looked like Boeing made up their "flap scenario" out of whole cloth.

Hello !
I'm trying to use the ADF on the CS Boeing 727 and I'm not able to detect any NDB's. I'm at the CYQB airport and I have three availables NDB on that airport. I think I'm doing everythings right. Both knobs on the RMI are set to ADF. Knob 6 on the ADF control panel is set to ADF and I tried the 3 possibles frequencies (QB>230 kHz, OU>329 kHz and BV>336 kHz). The tuning meter isn't moving at all. Is there something else that I should set to make this feature works?  If I use the built-in Cessna 172 it works.

Thank in advance for everyone who take the time to reply.

Windows 7 Integral, 64 bit
FSX with SP1 + Acceleration Pack
CaptainSim Boeing 727 (csp721_2400.exe, csp722_2400.exe)
Mohterboard ASUS Maximus IV Gene-Z/GEN3
16 gB RAM
graphic card EVGA GTX670
CPU Intel i7-2600 3.4gHz (3.8gHz turbo mode)

Tiguydou wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 3:44am:

Hello ! I'm trying to use the ADF on the CS Boeing 727 and I'm not able to detect any NDB's. I'm at the CYQB airport and I have three availables NDB on that airport. I think I'm doing everythings right. Both knobs on the RMI are set to ADF. Knob 6 on the ADF control panel is set to ADF and I tried the 3 possibles frequencies (QB>230 kHz, OU>329 kHz and BV>336 kHz). The tuning meter isn't moving at all. Is there something else that I should set to make this feature works?  If I use the built-in Cessna 172 it works. Thank in advance for everyone who take the time to reply. Windows 7 Integral, 64 bit FSX with SP1 + Acceleration Pack CaptainSim Boeing 727 (csp721_2400.exe, csp722_2400.exe) Mohterboard ASUS Maximus IV Gene-Z/GEN3 16 gB RAM graphic card EVGA GTX670 CPU Intel i7-2600 3.4gHz (3.8gHz turbo mode)

First of all, make sure that the ADF's Volume Control Function Selector knobs are set to ADF and not OFF!

http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv58/Markoz958/CS727-ADF2_zps46385ee3.jpg~original
This is ADF2. The Volume Control Function Selector knob is set to ADF and it is tuned to 329.0.

http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv58/Markoz958/CS727-ADF-capture_zpsa7c3f783.jpg~original
ADF 1 is tuned to 230.0 (NDB QB) and ADF 2 is tuned to 329.0 (NDB OU) and you can see that when I rotate the ADF/VOR Selector Knobs to ADF, the 727 is receiving them. ;)

Hi ! Markoz!

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate.

I finally found what I was doing wrong. I didn'nt tune the exact frequencies. I was closing in but never exactly.
I was counting on the signal intensity meter to tune the exact frequency.
I guess it doesn't work like that. Now when I tune exactly the NDB frequency, it works.

Thank you !

You're welcome.

I use Cockpit Tooltips so that the exact frequency for the ADF's are displayed beside the mouse pointer.
So I understand how what happened to you happened. ;D

LOU wrote on Mar 11^th, 2010 at 9:19pm:

This is a VERY simple example, but thats how it's done. With GPS or LNAV direct routes can be flown, but in the Jurassic Jet we had no such fancy instruments or radios.  ;D Lou

Just coming in late here at an old excellent thread.
LOU back then you were aviators using also what is less known nowadays as dead reckoning !

By using VORs and ADFs you knew roughly where you were and how to steer to get roughly to a desired spot. Back in the days of your flying extreme (lateral) precision did not matter. Nowadays in the effort to squeeze in as much traffic as possible is small chunks of airspace with RNPs and such (accuracy of RNAV navigation performance) things rely solely on accurate LNAV navigation equipment and multiple redundancies.