I am just looking for some user feedback, not sure if this is a bug or user interface.

On the autopilot on the 727 prior to 2.3 I could click the autopilot Turn and Pitch Controller to increase the or decrease the pitch that the autopilot was holding.

However, it seems that post 2.3 upgrade that turn part of the Turn and Pitch Controller works fine but the pitch part is unresponsive.

I also noticed the Flight Director portion with its pitch command and mode selector and while it seems that I can drive the command bars up and down with the pitch command the autopilot ignores the pitch bar.

Am I missing something here? Even if I manually set a pitch via CWS and reengage elevator the autopilot seems to have a mind of its own.

I'm having the same problem as KenG:  I repeatedly hit the pitch knob to descend and there is no response.  Only if I trim the nose down significantly does the pitch control seem to engage, and then I can use the knob to descend.  I just installed 2.3 yesterday and this showed up in my first flight.

I guess this is answered in the next question and the solution is here. http://www.captainsim.com/cgi-bin/kb.pl?qid=4897

I searched the KB using the terms pitch and autopilot and did not come across this solution.

I applied the patch and while the pitch knob now works it hunts allot as opposed to holding the pitch you set. i.e. I set 5.0 degrees pitch and the airplane hunts between 4.6 and 5.6 until settling in a minute or two latter on 5.2.

Unfortunately, I have the same problem.. There is no way including K#4897 can correct the pitc/decent problem. It is horrible. I am keep waiting Captain Sim will come with a solution. :'( :'(

Sanal

I've found that when I turn on the elevator master switch, it takes control of pitch...but when I turn off the elevator master (leaving the aileron master on) it doesn't let go of it.  I move the yoke and nothing happens.

But here is the crazy part...if I then flip the altitude hold on and then off again, I can control pitch with the yoke normally.  I have to do the altitude hold "on/off" routine every time I turn the elevator master off (with aileron master on) in order to control pitch with the yoke.

Me Too :( 727-200 is un-flyable as the pitch control will not allow the a/c to climb.  Switch back to my 727-100 and no problem with the a/p.  I think cs wanted to make the a/p work so the elev/ail could work independently, but the fix just buggered the a/p altogether.  Please Fix!!!

Sorry to bud n here with this issue. I just installed v2.4 and so far I have found that the pitch is uncontrollable...It stall me very often.
I wen to the KB to see the solution posted above.
But I have no idea where to add it; I have 727-100 and I just jumped from v2.2 to 2.4

Can anyone assist?

Please check-in to Your Profile, click Product name link and use Customer Support > Search KB > KB# 4897 - it has been updated with new fix file.

Instruction #2 tells you where to place the file.

1. Please download the file. (Link removed).
2. Move the file to [Microsoft Flight Simulator X Root Folder]SimObjects\Airplanes\CS_B727-100\panel folder. Press 'Yes' when asked to replace the file.

Example: I would to paste it into this folder here:- E:\Flight Simulator X\SimObjects\Airplanes\CS_B727-100\panel

Hope this helps

Mark

Mark ,
If you downloaded the FIX ,will you please verify if problems solved and A/P  is working well.
Thanks
Sanal

Sorry Sanal.

I don't need the fix because I'm using the 727 v2.4 and the AP works very well. I was just showing Bernardo where to put it.

The only problem I had with the AP was the ILS and G/S. They now work very good. But not until after I read the post by LOU (a former 727 pilot) in which he explained how the AUTO G/S and MANUAL G/S on the AP go about catching the ILS and G/S - HERE.

The information he has given us about flying the 727 make flying it really fun! It did for me (except for the loss of avionics power after 11 minutes). I highly recommend you reading his posts in that particular Topic -To New Members Lou and Delta Dog (same Topic, just the beginning of it).

Mark

Mark,
Thanks. I think CS did not finalized fix for member does not have FSX Acceleration.    >:(  .Therefore I end Up spent 38$ Amazon.Com purchased the FSX Acceleration.

Now I have 2.2 and A/P works. When I receive my FSX Acceleration will I dowload Acceleration first then 2.3 and 2.4??
Sanal

asanal wrote on Mar 10^th, 2010 at 8:32pm:

Mark, Thanks. I think CS did not finalized fix for member does not have FSX Acceleration.    >:(  .Therefore I end Up spent 38$ Amazon.Com purchased the FSX Acceleration. Now I have 2.2 and A/P works. When I receive my FSX Acceleration will I dowload Acceleration first then 2.3 and 2.4?? Sanal

I believe that Captain Sim said that they have a minor fix coming "soon" for the A/P problem for SP2 for FSX.

You wont be able to get 2.3 anymore because CS remove them and only leave the latest version available for download. So you will only get 2.4. Each version of the CS727 Base Pack can be installed on it's own without having to install a previous version. DONT DELETE OR GET RID OF YOUR csp721_2200.exe, csp722_2200.exe & csp723_2200.exe (if you have any of the Expansion Packs). KEEP THEM! Keep it/them just in case you are NOT happy with how 2.4 performs, and you can uninstall 2.4 and reinstall 2.2.

Mark

asanal wrote on Mar 10^th, 2010 at 8:32pm:

Mark, Thanks. I think CS did not finalized fix for member does not have FSX Acceleration.

Please read our Reply #7 in this topic.

I purchased the 727 a few days ago. And I am very disappointed because the airplane is not flyable due to auto pilot and pitch trim issues.

First, the stabilizer trim is unrealistically sensitive. It's a pain to fly manually.

Second, the auto pilot pitch knob has no effect, i.e. it does not control the pitch at all.  I have to do it with the stabilizer trim, but then again it's way to sensitive. It's a real pain.

Third, the altitude hold function is an even bigger pain. At some point it does not hold altitude anymore and the airplane begins pitching up and down like crazy.

I get the impression that I just wasted money...

You need to read Manual and Knowledge Base.

Captain Sim 2 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 9:02am:

You need to read Manual and Knowledge Base.

I read all three manuals. They don't explain why the auto pilot does not work as it should.

Aside from that, my flight simulator experience goes back more than 20 years, which includes flying a detailed 727 addon from another publisher for MS FS9 for many years. I also own a copy of a original  727 operating manual from a US airline, since the 727 is my favourite airplane. So I thought I might change to FSX and try the Captain Sim 727.

But the MB IV auto pilot of your 727 sadly turns out to not work as it is supposed to. As mentioned before, the turn and pitch controller has no effectiveness at all in in terms of its pitch function. And the stabilizer trim is unrealistically sensitive, which, in combination with the not working pitch control of the auto pilot, makes it barely possible to fly this airplane. The altitude hold function also does not work properly. It makes the airplane behave like a rollercoaster during cruise.

Do you have Acceleration installed? And if not, did you download the fix mentioned in Reply #7 above?

With Acceleration, I find that the Autopilot Turn And Pitch Controller works for both pitch and turn, but the one in the VC is difficult and 99 times out of 100, I will turn the 727 rather than pitch it, so I use the 2D Autopilot Panel's Autopilot Turn And Pitch Controller where I do not have the problem of turning instead of pitching.

Markoz wrote on Feb 25^th, 2014 at 12:36am:

Do you have Acceleration installed? And if not, did you download the fix mentioned in Reply #7 above? With Acceleration, I find that the Autopilot Turn And Pitch Controller works for both pitch and turn, but the one in the VC is difficult and 99 times out of 100, I will turn the 727 rather than pitch it, so I use the 2D Autopilot Panel's Autopilot Turn And Pitch Controller where I do not have the problem of turning instead of pitching.

Thanks for your help Mark.

No, I don't have Acceleration. I came across post #7 already, but I thought the fix was part of version 2.4 so I didn't take a closer look. But thanks for mentioning again. I will test it.

As for the VC turn and pitch controller: I immediately realized that the VC controller for pitch is rather hard to use without turning the airplane. So using the 2D auto pilot control panel was one of my first steps while testing the 727 for the first time :)

Let's see if the fix will work. I still think the CS 727 is a beautiful airplane addon, aside from the auto pilot glitches I experienced so far. I already was able to fix the missing sounds (just by reloading the airplane), and I also managed to include my payware KLN90 GPS gauge (including the default NAV/GPS button as suggested in this forum) and put a day and night bitmaps of it on the center pedestal  8-)

Still doesn't work, which I already expected while copying the "Captain_Sim.p721.sys.gau" file into the panel folder of the 727-100. Because there was no previous Captain_Sim.p721.sys.gau file so nothing had to be replaced so the file obviously has no effect because it's not used.

DesktopSimulations wrote on Feb 25^th, 2014 at 6:25pm:

Still doesn't work, which I already expected while copying the "Captain_Sim.p721.sys.gau" file into the panel folder of the 727-100. Because there was no previous Captain_Sim.p721.sys.gau file so nothing had to be replaced so the file obviously has no effect because it's not used.

There should be a Captain_Sim.p721.sys.gau in the CS_727-100\panel folder!

http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv58/Markoz958/CS727_GAU_file_zps89924a93.jpg~original
Here is an image of  some of the files in my CS_727-100\panel folder. As you can see, there is a Captain_Sim.p721.sys.gau file, so it should be there.

You are also right that the fix is included in 727 v2.4. I made the mistake of assuming that you were using v2.3 because this topic is named 727 2.3 Autopilot. :-/

Perhaps the fact that the file seems to be missing, could account for your Autopilot problems? Reinstall the 727-100 Base Pack using the Repair option. You might want to disable your Anti Virus program while you reinstall, as it might have remove the file to its Virus Vault/Chest because the GAU file was perceived as a threat. Or you can check the AV Virus Vault/Chest, and if the Captain_Sim.p721.sys.gau is in there, restore it to where it should be.

Well, I can't start new threads so I posted in this thread, although it's related to version 2.3.

Meanwhile I used the repair option of the 727 installer. After this the Captain_Sim.p721.sys.gau file appeared in the panel folder. But the pitch function still didn't work. So I replaced that file with the file from the fix. Now the pitch function and altitude hold functions works. It's a little bit wobbly when disengaging altitude hold and adjusting the pitch, but all in all it finally works. I will do more testing tomorrow...

So thanks a lot again for your help :)

PS: I don't know why there was no Captain_Sim.p721.sys.gau file after the first installation. But I don't think it was due my anti virus software since I always add the entire FSX folder as an exception because of potential issues like this and to prevent lower frame rates.

DesktopSimulations wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 3:14am:

PS: I don't know why there was no Captain_Sim.p721.sys.gau file after the first installation. But I don't think it was due my anti virus software since I always add the entire FSX folder as an exception because of potential issues like this and to prevent lower frame rates.

Some Anti Virus programs will target the installer because it is not run from the FSX folder.

For example, all my Captain Sim installers are saved in my FSX Bought/Captain Sim folder, so I also have the FSX Bought folder added to exceptions, it prevents my FSX payware addon installers from being scanned during installation. ;)

Interesting that you got it to work.  I have never been able to get it to work and have previously installed the fix.  I tried again today and it sort of works.  Very bad porposing of the aircraft once you change the pitch.  I have been able to fix that by completely turning off the A/P and Elevator and then turning them back on again.  Seems to fix it.  Not ideal but something I can work with and the aircraft is at least flyable.

OK it works not but almost unflyable.  When you increase or decrease the v/s or pitch using the A/P pitch knob the A/P bobs the aircraft up and down +/1 500 fpm on an ongoing basis.   Any ideas on how to fix this issue?

Actually, after further testing the patch for SP2 does not work at all.  Plane is completely unusable which is a real shame because otherwise it is a nice aircraft.  

Are there any other suggestions out there on what to do?  Perhaps installing an earlier version of the guage will fix it?

mark767 wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 12:25am:

Actually, after further testing the patch for SP2 does not work at all.  Plane is completely unusable which is a real shame because otherwise it is a nice aircraft.   Are there any other suggestions out there on what to do?  Perhaps installing an earlier version of the guage will fix it?

Seeing as the problem is caused by the difference between the SP2 installed with Acceleration and the SP2 for FSX, I doubt that installing an earlier version of the 727 will fix it. :(

Thanks Mark, probably right....very frustrating.  I just wish they would sit down and fix it once and for all.  Looks like I will have to put it back in the hanger.

mark767 wrote on Aug 8^th, 2014 at 1:30pm:

Thanks Mark, probably right....very frustrating.  I just wish they would sit down and fix it once and for all.  Looks like I will have to put it back in the hanger.

...or bite the bullet and purchase Acceleration.  That's what I ended up doing.  It works perfectly now.

I have thought about it, its not a cost issue but I think I will need to do a full reinstall and the thought of having to do that is painful and overwhelming !!!

mark767 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 8:14pm:

I have thought about it, its not a cost issue but I think I will need to do a full reinstall and the thought of having to do that is painful and overwhelming !!!

Yeah I know what you mean.  The Horror.  The HORROR!!!

I can tell you that once the 727 is running on Acceleration and you get it modded up and working properly, it is AWESOME.  

Well I just purchased FSX Gold.  I have not reinstalled FSX in about 3 or 4 years so I am probably due.  I was just looking through my installed aircraft and scenery and there is a lot of stuff I can get rid of.  2 or 3 nights of pain and I should be up and running with a working 727.

mark767 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 10:18pm:

Well I just purchased FSX Gold.  I have not reinstalled FSX in about 3 or 4 years so I am probably due.  I was just looking through my installed aircraft and scenery and there is a lot of stuff I can get rid of.  2 or 3 nights of pain and I should be up and running with a working 727.

You could/should get away with just installing the Acceleration from the included disk, but if you need to install the whole lot, it shouldn't affect too much. Open the Windows RUN command and enter %AppData%\Microsoft\FSX, find and copy the fsx.cfg and dll.xml files and  then paste them somewhere safe (like the desktop). Uninstall FSX, then install FSX old. Copy your  fsx.cfg and dll.xml files and paste them back in the %AppData%\Microsoft\FSX folder and you should be fine with the change. You will need to redo any changes to you control settings, but because thre are some changes from the FSX to Acceleration button/keys commands, I do not recommend backing up the Controls\standard.XML file!

Thanks for the tips Mark.  I will probably just to a full reinstall anyway.  Good opportunity to clear out all of the crap that I no longer want and/or need and get my sim humming at its best.

Yeah. A full reinstall clears out the rubbish (removes the files no longer in use). ;D

I am also going to take the opportunity to upgrade by base scenery to ORBX Global, Vector and Europe LC.

mark767 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2014 at 4:41pm:

I am also going to take the opportunity to upgrade by base scenery to ORBX Global, Vector and Europe LC.

I hear that to get the best from Orbx Vector, you need to use it with PILOT'S - FS Global 2010.

It is for that reason that I have held off on buying Orbx Vector. I have Orbx Global and that makes FSX (and P3D if I install it there) look really nice.