I do not have the B727 yet but am interested.  One question is can the aircraft be started completely manually by the check list without having to use autostart?

I have not been successful with manual start until after the first autostart.

I never have noticed anything change that I didn't set correctly in the first place, but until recently the checklists manual was not completed.  It has been released in previous days, and I'm eager to give it a try.  If it works, I'm going to make videos about it.

_MSW_ wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2009 at 11:50pm:

I do not have the B727 yet but am interested.  One question is can the aircraft be started completely manually by the check list without having to use autostart?

Hi MSW,
             Yes you can. Works like a charm for me.

Mark

Now I am confused.  It appears, according to Bob, that you have to start it with auto start first, then shut it down and then start it manually for it to work.  Is that correct?  If so that doesn't seem useful.  Although, markab did not mention this as a problem.

If you are using FSUIPC, you may have to start it using Ctrl+E.  Actually I only have to start #1 and #2 using Ctrl+E.  #3 will start using the normal procedure even with FSUIPC.
If you disable FSUIPC you will be able to start it completely using the full checklist procedure.
This has been my experience anyway.
I think I prefer to just use the registered FSUIPC and have the controllers run through it so I can have my reversers on the throttle quadrant levers.  I know how to start the engines anyway and I can still start one of them.  The jury is still out on that. ;)

MSW,

What I was saying is that before I had access to the checklists (recently released) I could not fathom what I was doing incorrectly to keep from getting the start valves to open, but once I used Control-E once, I could always start the plane after that.

I have not yet had the opportunity to try since the checklists were released.

You'll have to disable FSUIPC's wind, temperature, pressure and turbulence controls. Once those items are disabled, all 3 engines will start like there's no tomorrow. Once all 3 engines have started you can turn back on the FSUIPC settings.

THBatMan8 wrote on Mar 7^th, 2009 at 8:58pm:

You'll have to disable FSUIPC's wind, temperature, pressure and turbulence controls. Once those items are disabled, all 3 engines will start like there's no tomorrow. Once all 3 engines have started you can turn back on the FSUIPC settings.

Thank you!  I'll sure check that out.  Maybe that will fix my Alt Hold switch not working too.
That is the main pain that I'm dealing with.  A side from that this 727 is working beautiful.
I can land this better than any plane I have.

One other little thing.  I notice that the reversers won't cause this 727 to back up.
The "727 Flight Master" book says that this is something that it should do and covers how to do it properly.  I wonder if the reversers should be made stronger?

Bob

signmanbob wrote on Mar 6^th, 2009 at 5:39am:

If you are using FSUIPC, you may have to start it using Ctrl+E.

WOW!

I was about to purchase this aircraft until I saw that.  Doesn't that strike anyone as a bit odd for an addon of this cost??

Also, is it correct that 'Alt Hold' doesn't work?  It's what I heard

Thanks

dougal wrote on Mar 9^th, 2009 at 9:19pm:

signmanbob wrote on Mar 6th, 2009 at 5:39am: If you are using FSUIPC, you may have to start it using Ctrl+E.   WOW! I was about to purchase this aircraft until I saw that.  Doesn't that strike anyone as a bit odd for an addon of this cost?? Also, is it correct that 'Alt Hold' doesn't work?  It's what I heard Thanks

The problem is not with Captain Sim's 727, the problem is that it is not very compatible with FSUIPC.  Dispite this, I like to use FSUIPC registered version to set up all of my controllers.
This is causing the fuel cutoff switches on the pedestal not to work.  It may also be what is causing my ALT HOLD switch not to work.
I have found a way to do the startup procedure without using the cutoff switches on the pedestal.  I leave those switches on all the time and use the fuel cutoff switches on the engineer's panel.  They still work good and I can do a normal startup procedure using them instead.
I can see a developer building a sim that doesn't use FSUIPC or need it.  But I can't see why a developer would release a sim that is not compatible with such a popular utility.
I can't fault Captain Sim for that though.  He has built a beautiful 727 with the intentions of it using the default FSX program.
He did build the 757 to use FSUIPC so it does seem strange though.

Hrm.  Well, I hadn't considered that FSUIPC would cause any problem in getting the engine to turn when the start valve opens.

Last night, I opened the new manual and ran through the list to be sure I didn't miss anything in my pre-flight and before-start procedures.

Imagine my dismay when I found the checklist skips right from the Before Start to the After Start lists, with no actual Start list in-between.

Even with everything set as I would expect, turning on the start valve switch for any engine had no effect at all, other than to light the valve light on the F/E panel.

Then, I click Control-E, and *knock-whirrr* the #1 starts spinning up.  Only thing that changed on the panels was that the packs both got switched to ON, which should be wrong for a start.  Also, air pressure INCREASED about 4-8 psi when this happened.

This seems very wrong.

Nonetheless, once I have done a Control-E startup, I can still shutdown all 3 engines and start manually as expected.

Ok, I got it figured out now with the help of FSUIPC support.
There is nothing wrong with Captain Sim's gorgeous 727 series.  The fuel cutoff switches were locked up because they are set with "Mixture1 Rich, Mixture1 Idle" etc. and the same with #2 and #3.

I went into FSUIPC program and set those to the buttons below my throttle levers on my CH throttle and they work Perrrfect now.  I can start up my engines like a pro.

If you see that you can't start the 727 with the procedure and need to Ctrl+E, just reload the plane.  It will work perfect then.  For some reason sometimes it doesn't load right the first time.  Probably more of an issue with FSX itself.

It might be a good idea after you select it in the setup and it loads up at the airport, to just reload it again through the menu at the top.  First shut down the engines then just reload it.
That way it should be ready to start up following the procedure.

Now I only have one other little problem to figure out and it is not Captain Sim's fault either.
My ALT HOLD switch is locked up and it did work at one time.  I figure the problem is probably similar to the fuel cutoff switches.

Bob

signmanbob wrote on Mar 12^th, 2009 at 6:48am:

Now I only have one other little problem to figure out and it is not Captain Sim's fault either. My ALT HOLD switch is locked up and it did work at one time.  I figure the problem is probably similar to the fuel cutoff switches. Bob

Bob, I checked mine on the ground last night and I can click it On and Off with no problem. Did a few approaches into KPHL last night, AP-On, Auto Appch, and it switched Off when I got the GS to start down on the approach.

*BUMP*

I think I found the issue with the engines and it isn't FSUIPC surprisingly. If you change the fuel load in the manifolds you need to double check the flight engineer's panel as I've found that the panel changes when you change fuel loads. Make sure that the APU Generator is connected to the sync bus. Also, check that the Bus Tie Breaker and Generator Field Relay switches for all three engines indicate closed. The Generator Breaker Light can be ignored until you fire up the engines because when you connect the IDG to it's bus it will disconnect the APU generator from the sync bus. Then run through the engine start checklist making sure that the appropriate galley items are load sheeded and the engines should fire up without any issues.

Thanks for the tips, I will try and see if it resolves the issue I've had.  I'm sure those items were covered in the checklists, though, and I tried it w/ the checklists.

Yep, tried all this and no go... I can't start engines either from Cold & Dark... This REALLY needs to get looked at. I ALWAYS start up from C&D when I fly. Love the realism... I DO have the registered version of FSUIPC, but I don't think I should have to disable it considering all of the other payware developers have no issues working around it.

One other thing I noticed. I have my default flight set up as the Cessna 172, cold & dark. This way all of my add-ons will start up C&D that do not have configuration managers to do so. Such as the another company CRJ-2004. So I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it, but when I enter the 727 cockpit for the 1st time, the battery switch is in the ON position, but there is no power. I have to flip the switch OFF and then back ON to get juice flowing. Just seems odd to me...
Following that I can start the APU just fine and and perform other cockpit tasks, except starting the engines!  :(

Seems there are a lot of bugs running around in this aircraft that need to be ironed out, and the more I discover the more I am starting to get agitated with the money that I spent on this product. Even with the Spring Cleaning Sale, my US Dollar amount came to $68! That's almost up there with another company products!!

How do we make sure CaptainSim are aware of these issues so they can be ironed out in future SP's?

Robert -

Hi Robert,

the same for me here. I cannot start the engines from CnD situation. The battery switch is on, and I need to switch it off then on again to get power. Maybe a quick tutorial with just the essential switch to move or button to press without any test procedure would be helpful, or a video showing us how to start the engines.

Stéphane

Hey guys :)

I've read the manual (twice :p ) and am having trouble starting the engines.  As you might imagine, this is a very important step to flying.  Up to now, I've mostly been working my way through the manual and starting via CTRL+E, but after several attempts I can't think what I'm doing wrong.  I use the checklist, boot up in the default Cessna to put the prop and mixture levers forward, and work through all the parts of the checklist.  I noticed a couple of things which might be doing it.

First of all, hydraulic system A doesn't have any pressure.  Should it, before the engines are started?  

I can't think what I'm doing wrong, but I'd love some help.  Where should I start?  Screenshots of the panels, perhaps?

Thanks for your help!

Kevin

I still can't find out what my problem is... it's not the hydraulic system A, since that doesn't pressurize until the engines are going... the engines simply won't start spinning- it's just like there's no bleed air to them.  

Anyone?

Hey,
that was my first thought too,
Still had no successful CnD start-up.
everything seems to be OK, but when I hit the engine starters, nothing happens.
I hope someone finds out why soon,
or CS comes with the solution.

Tyrion

That's the problem- FSX is so buggy I can never tell if it's just the sim, or if I've done something wrong with the checklists :p

Starting the default F-18, for example, always gives me a headache cause it seems that the starting process resets when you change views, etc....  

Ah well :p  For now I'll just keep running through the checklists so that, at least, I can do it faster (IIRC, sometimes addons won't start if you take a long time to get them going).

Here's what I found out after a little testing.

My startup situation is default Cessna with
- battery off
- generator off
- avionics off

Now it seems that this setting is applied to the 727 when I load it. Interestingly, switching the batttery on or off on the flight engineers panel does not really switch the battery on. Even starting the APU and closing the breakers and generators does not turn it on.
You can check this by loading the GPS - it remains dark. In order to light up the avionics/GPS, I had to assign hot keys to all three components - battery, avionics, generator. Only when I use the hotkeys for battery and avionics, the GPS swichtes on. Only then I'm able to start the engines, too.
After starting the engines, I have to use the hot key for turning on the generator - closing all breakers on the engineers panel does not turn on the generators. You can check this with the default GPS too - if you don't use the hot key, it will turn off after a few minutes.

Then I changed the dark& cold settings to :
- battery on
- avionics on
- generator on

With this setting, I'm absolutely not able to start the engines, no matter what settings I use on the engineers panel or which hot keys I use.

Nevertheless, I think the 727 is really a great addon. It is one of only three addons that I use permanently, because the VC, the flight dynamics and the handling is very unique and very well done. I'm very much looking forward to the next service pack, though..

Kind regards,
Juergen

Thanks mate, good to know.  I feel a bit of a dunce since I'm going to be reviewing this, but it's good to know how to work around these issues.  It's funny, though- there haven't been many reports of this.  Could it just be my install, perhaps, Captain Sim?

If you have problems with manual engine start either when you start from cold&dark, or if you load e.g. Cessna with all systems off then select 727 Captain please   once-twice press combinations:
- Ctrl+Shift+F4  -   Ctrl+Shift+F1
- and/or Ctrl+F4  -  Ctrl+F1
- and/or F4 -  F1

Thanks!

I'll give that a try  :)

Beautiful sim, and congrats on the SP.  The new sounds are awesome, thanks  ;D

Thank you!

I installed the new version and I was able to start the engines manually with no issues!! YEA!!!
I AM having an issue with the A/P which I will create a seperate post on here... ;)

Thanks for the QUICK turnaround on the new service pack CaptainSim!!

Robert

Finally had everything work right!

I tried the F1-F4 suggestion, but it didn't work.  I went through everything as normal, trying that suggestion, and went to start up but the starter didn't do anything.  So, I reset the aircraft and it went!  Resetting it didn't mess up any switch positions or anything, but I assume it solved whatever it was wrong while not really sacrificing realism  :D

Awesome!  Wonderful flight too- didn't have enough fuel, though, so had a very interesting landing.  Thanks for the awesome plane Captain Sim, she's beautiful!

On manual engine starting, the APU needs to be running.  How can I bring the APU panel to show up?  the back of the seat is in the way hiding the dials.

Ben

For starting the APU there isn't a 2D panel as far as I am aware.  You'll need to move the viewpoint back to get to that panel.  I can't remember the key commands right away, but check the FSX commands menu under views.  I assigned these to the arrow keys, personally, so that I can get around easily.

Another possibility to get to the APU section is to hit 'A' a couple of times. There is a standard viewpoint for the flight engineer. just turn the camera, and you're looking right at it, without any seats or other stuff in the way. There are a few other things that are easier to get to just with other standard viewpoints.

Tyrion

Good point, I forgot  :P

Could the reason it won't start be that there is a pack trip or bleed trip or overheat.  If this happens I don't think there would be any bleed air for the engine to start.  I can't get my engines to start, and I've noticed there is always a pack or bleed trip.  Does anyone know how to fix this.

Thanks,
AAL763

I've also noticed that the Pack overheat lights always seem on- I thought I just had some setting wrong.  However, if you go to the Cold-N-Dark mission, they appear off, so I'm not sure what's up there.  However, it still wouldn't crank in the mission, so I don't think this is specifically the issue.

Try this fix.  Insert the following line into your 727 aircraft.cfg file under the [electrical] section.

electric_always_available = 1

With this the avionics never freeze up, and you can start the engines manually all you want.

I'm including a very small, rough, and unofficial checklist for engine startup with my review- will this help anyone?

I have the full American Airlines 727 operating manual and am able to do a manual start following the checklist everytime. With a non registered FSUIPC.

I have a full American Airlines 727 FOM as well.  I have no problem starting the engines, but I edited my .cfg file. :)