CAPTAIN SIM FORUM
General >> Hangar talks >> Flight Engineers on the 767
https://www.captainsim.org/forum/csf.pl?num=1338119782

Message started by passeur on May 27th, 2012 at 11:56am

Title: Re: Flight Engineers on the 767
Post by LOU on May 28th, 2012 at 7:02pm
passeur asked: I have few more questions :

What were the feelings of the TWA's F/E community at the introduction of these new planes? did some F/E moved to pilot positions as a result? I'm not sure but I think that in Air France some F/E were offered pilot training.

At TWA and PanAm as well as other large airlines there were professional F/E's. This was a hangover from the piston days where the F/E's were not pilots and never would be. When the 707 came along it was obvious to many of the professional F/E's that the days of the F/E were numbered. Some F/E's were offered a chance to up-grade to pilot and some did. As a flight instructor in the early 60's I had the opportunity to teach a few of the old F/E's. Some were pretty good pilots and did very well up-grading to F/O and then later Captain. When I was hired by TWA, the professional F/E time had ended and all "new" hires were hired as pilots, but started as F/E's and progressed upward as seniority allowed.

As the era of the 747 & L-1011 came on in the early 70's it was clear that new planes would most likely be two pilot planes. The days of the professional F/E and Navigator were a thing of the past.

Regarding relief pilots I was wondering : did every TWA pilot could be a relief pilot or were the most junior pilots given this duty?

The relief pilot position was a bid position. Each month, every pilot would bid the flights he or she wanted and seniority determined which flights one could hold. Some people would bid relief position for better days off or commuting to work etc. At TWA we were able to mix-up our flying using a computer bid system which would allow all different types of trades with other pilots as long as you remained legal time wise. Later, when AA bought TWA it was like going back to the dark ages with their bidding system. Very restrictive bidding. This old fashioned bid system was very inefficient for crew utilization and cost AA countless millions each month in crew cost. The bottom line was that the unions would not allow the better system since that would mean fewer crew members would be needed.  

And the final question : As a pilot how did you see the end of the F/E era?

Well, as a pilot who started in small planes and worked as a flight instructor to build time I found the F/E position to be a great learning position. Sure I wanted to fly as a pilot, but back then the schools were very complete, teaching in detail how the systems worked. Today the schools are short and only the minimum is taught - it's all about $$$$.  I was glad I saw the F/E position, but the real F/E was the person flying the Connie or the large pistons - they were busy!

BTW, while I was in college in New York, I worked for Air France at KJFK in their dispatch office. Air France was one of the first to implement a true computer flight plan with an IBM-360 computer using punch cards. There were 12 airlines that used the services of Air France dispatch.

The 707 and DC-8 were the primary planes we planed for, but we also did plans for DC-6's and CL-44's. It was a great learning experience for me to see different airlines and how they operated. Air France had professional F/E's and Navigators into the mid 60's

Lou

CAPTAIN SIM FORUM » Powered by YaBB 2.6.0!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.