With the 777, 707, B-52, etc. - I am not sure if there will ever be a 2.5 patch.  I hope I’m wrong, but meanwhile I will attempt to fix what is in my power to fix.

I’m creating this thread as a work-in-progress for the various issues I am attempting to correct.  My goal is to use this thread for feedback and help as I make the corrections.  Once completed, I’ll package up all my work here and update this post with release/download info.

Some of the remaining bugs with version 2.4 reside in the aircraft’s model.  This means only CS can make these changes with the model’s source file.  The good news is some of these issues can be fixed manually with a hex editor, bypassing the need for the source files.

For example, this is how I fixed the Heading Select switch bug in the vc.  Previously, the switch would remain stuck in the ON position requiring the user to open up the 2D panel to shut it off.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk248/Tzser/Flightsim/CS727/hsbug_hex.jpg

In the hex editor image above, the highlighted value is the click event for the heading select switch…it is incorrect.  Instead of reading AP_12_007_SW2_POS, it should be AP_12_007_SW2_POS_CLICK.  Once I made this correction to the model, the switch worked properly.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk248/Tzser/Flightsim/CS727/HeadingSelFix.gif

Another example is the Oil Quantity Test button. It was broken; instead it moved the oil pressure needles when tested.  After some hex editing and a small line of code to one of the gauges…they now work as intended.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk248/Tzser/Flightsim/CS727/OilQtyFix.gif

Unfortunately, this process is limited and certain issues cannot be fixed this way.  Also, the HSI Nav1 problem needs a totally new gauge that will be able communicate with the 727 "sys logic" in order to get Nav2 information.  I have some ideas as a workaround that I still have to test out....but the only true fix will be from CS.  In addition to this, the pressurization system is FUBAR’d and I probably won’t even touch the thing.  I've changed my mind...will look into the press system.

I’m sure CS would not appreciate me offering modified versions of their model for download.  To prevent this, I will offer these changes via a “byte patcher” installer.  This means my download will only contain the data needed to be changed without containing any of the product’s assets.  Without the original files, the patcher will be useless hex data.

Other issues already fixed:

Black Engine Smoke
Currently, you have to manually activate the smoke system by using the “i” key.  Furthermore, with this approach you get unrealistic smoke that doesn’t take into account if an engine is offline.  For example, if engines 1 and 3 were off, you would still get smoke from all 3 engines instead of only engine 2.

I made a new gauge to correct this.  The black smoke is now automatically engaged based on throttle position.  Also, the smoke is tied to each engine now, so if you lose engine 1, you lose the smoke too.  I can tweak this further based on user feedback.

Properly Working Tail Skid
Tail skid now works likes the real thing (fixed typo also).  Instead of having to manually extend it via the tail hook command; now it automatically extends and retracts with the landing gear.  I’ve also fixed the annunciator light to function like the real thing which is how Lou described it in another thread. Now the tail skid light briefly illuminates while the skid is transitioning from open to close and vice versa.

Other issues to be fixed:
Will be announced throughout this thread as I work on them.

great job, cant wait for the download :D

I'm trying to fix the S/O's annunciator panel on the -200 (-100 model is ok).  The "Aft Door" and "Service Door (aft)" presently do not have any indicator lights associated with them when they are open.  Also, the "L Service Door" indicator is broken and not associated with any door. See image below.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk248/Tzser/Flightsim/CS727/sopanel.jpg

I would like to correct this.  If anyone knows about this panel or has the flight manual explaining it...please share. I have some questions:

-Are the current annunciator labels correct?  The reason I ask is the unused indicator is named left service door; I don't see how this label can apply to either of the two doors that are lacking indicators.  I will also have to make a new indicator since we are short one.  If someone can clear up this door/annunciator confusion for me I would really appreciate it.  :D

-What is the "Cargo V Closed" indicator for?  Presently, I don't see it tied to anything other than the "test" indicator.

Nice work there.
A part of me is in criticism though since all final fixes should and have to come from CS itself just to avoid that you are running into too much work there which later gets rendered useless.

One thing showing is that some fixes aren't too complicated too achieve (e. g. the HEX code fixes) while others may give you headaches (pressurization system).
However, if we can help you with some testing which doesn't harm my fine tuned CS727 too much, count me in.
Don't worry, I have backups there in place if something happens.


Quote:

his means my download will only contain the data needed to be changed without containing any of the product’s assets.  Without the original files, the patcher will be useless hex data.

A wise and copyright proof decision there. Thumbs up.

I'd like to see some cleaned up 2.5 release of the 727 though. She's really running on tons of mods to become the bird I like. That shows a potential of course, but isn't too charming for new users since it takes some copy and edit work.

CoolP,
Thank you for taking the lead and doing great job. It is essential that user findings  be reviewed and it should be included in 2  FIX Lists. One critical fixes should be listed on your FIX for CS and If can be easily can be fix by members, these fixes should be listed on "Members Fix" list.

Before FIX submitted to CS. Members should review and if any changes between fix lists, it should be reported back to you. Then you and your team can review the lists. If all finalized should be submitted to CS.
CS should assign a developer member (Tina) to your team.

This is my suggestion. :)

Sanal

CoolP wrote on Jul 8^th, 2011 at 3:53pm:

A part of me is in criticism though since all final fixes should and have to come from CS itself just to avoid that you are running into too much work there which later gets rendered useless.

I agree.  I would love for CS to fix these issues so I could enjoying flying instead of tinkering.  ;)  I waited a couple of years before purchasing this product and the issues still haven't been fixed.

Based on past experience and the fact that CS has other projects with higher priority...one has to entertain the thought that a patch may never come.  If this is true...tinkering becomes very necessary.


CoolP wrote on Jul 8^th, 2011 at 3:53pm:

However, if we can help you with some testing which doesn't harm my fine tuned CS727 too much, count me in.

Thank you for the offer....your knowledgeable help is always appreciated.


CoolP wrote on Jul 8^th, 2011 at 3:53pm:

She's really running on tons of mods to become the bird I like. That shows a potential of course, but isn't too charming for new users since it takes some copy and edit work.

I would like to keep things simple and organized.  I was thinking of consolidating all important fixes into an automated installer.  This makes things less confusing and prevents the problem of mod conflicts.

Which mods are still necessary after the 2.4 update?  I thought I read that only the MDA and altitude fix were still necessary.  Then there's the flight dynamics mod and your INS mod.  Am I missing anything else?  If so please let me know so we can talk about including them in a future installer.


P.S. Does anyone have a link or the actual files for the MDA and Altitude fix?  The links are dead in the original thread and I can't find them anywhere. I have enough to fix and don't want to have to fix this too.  :(

Quote:

I would like to keep things simple and organized.  I was thinking of consolidating all important fixes into an automated installer.  This makes things less confusing and prevents the problem of mod conflicts.

Very good idea.

The necessary ones depend a bit on the preference.
My list of current ones (which has to be checked, writing this from memory) is:
- 'don't sink' fix
- the one for the MDA light
- maybe the NAV/GPS button (since the GPS popup is there, but you can't connect it)
- FDE mod (I would leave that optional)
- INS mod (optional too)
- DME display tuning (like on the current 707, so you have both DME measurements on each side)
- Sound fix (SoundOffWhenSimIsSlew=0)

I think the ALT rollover is ok in 2.4.
I would love to see the sound gauge fixed without my 'use the 707 gauge' trick. You know, this old bug that the 727 has to be loaded twice to get the switch sounds and stuff.

I can help you on the mod pack if it's offline. But this will take until Monday or so.

[edit]Can you code the FO's CDI to show Nav2 readings and a separate Course setup by the way?
That would really enhance my instrument flying on the 727. The 707 already has that independent CDI setup.[/edit]

@CoolP - Ok, so based on your feedback I'll include the following:
-Don't sink fix
-MDA light
-Sound fix (SoundOffWhenSimIsSlew=0)

You're right about the ALT rollover...it seems ok in 2.4.


CoolP wrote on Jul 8^th, 2011 at 9:56pm:

Can you code the FO's CDI to show Nav2 readings and a separate Course setup by the way? That would really enhance my instrument flying on the 727. The 707 already has that independent CDI setup.

I've spent the last 2 days trying to fix the HSI Nav2 issue and Pressurization system.  Unfortunately both issues are not fixable.  :(

The plan was to create a new second gauge as you had suggested.  CS didn't include any nav2 code in the system logic for the HSI.  This isn't a problem because I could add it "externally"...this was the plan until I realized that both heading and course knobs are mirrors of each other and thus tied to the nav1 receiver.  When you turn the captain's knobs, the F/O's knobs turn as well.  So even if I made a new gauge, we would not be able to use it.  CS has to code the knobs to be independent of each other.  This is only done with access to the model.

IMO, I don't really mind this issue.  Based on the flight manual, only the F/O's HSI had access to nav 2 signals.  Even if it worked, that means I would have to switch to the F/O view every time I wanted to use it.  I much rather use the captain's side HSI in conjunction with the nav2 RMI instead.  Of course this is only my preference and I am sure others don't mind it.  ;)

To make things easier, I made a little mod based on your DME solution...I recoded the gauge on the captain's side to display both DME 1 & 2 information.  All you have to do now is click on the DME display to toggle between both readings.  Tooltip lets you know which system you are receiving.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk248/Tzser/Flightsim/CS727/DME12.gif

Regarding the pressurization system:  I thought it was simply a matter of fixing something wrong in the code or a typo, etc...but after studying it for 2 days I've come to the conclusion that the whole pressurization system needs a re-write.  This explains why the problem has carried over to the 707.  Some areas of the system seem non functional and incomplete.  For instance, the barometric correction setting knob; the gauge logic and graphics for the pressure scale are incomplete and do not account for all pressure levels.  With most of their gauge logic being "hard coded" and once again the knobs being tied to the .mdl file...only CS can fix this.

However, there are still some things I can fix and improve.  In the rare event that CS releases another patch I am sure that they will not fix everything on the list (EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE AVOID THESE KIND OF WORDS).  So one way or another, we will always need some type of "patch" to bring her closer to perfection.

I have some other fixes I am working on.  Will post an update again soon.

Thanks for your update on this. I didn't like the wording in the last paragraph though, so maybe you don't mind setting up something like 'I get the impression that the thing is on low/very low/no priority' instead of the current phrase.
The meaning may be the same, the respect is greatly enhanced though.

Don't worry, that would be just a wish of mine and would also make sure to stay fair on the wording side.


Interesting read about the CDI knobs and I was really wishing for a fix there.
I'm a TrackIR user and take some of the FOs instruments into account too. This may be a flight sim special since in the rw a guy would sit there and would also be able to report stuff.
It's neat to have some cross radial setup and watching the own and the FOs CDI for example. Far more accurate than the small RMI in my humble eyes.

Also interesting to read about the severity of the pressurization bug. I could only assume there so far, but your words actually show why it takes time and work.
The DME idea is a good one. Maybe not genuine Boeing, but a nice feature which leaves the user the opportunity to use it or not.

Thanks for keeping us in the loop.  :)

CoolP wrote on Jul 13^th, 2011 at 5:45am:

Thanks for your update on this. I didn't like the wording in the last paragraph though

MODERATOR: we did not like it either. Please follow the forum rules and do not use this kind of words.


CoolP wrote on Jul 13^th, 2011 at 5:45am:

Don't worry, that would be just a wish of mine and would also make sure to stay fair on the wording side.

Fair?!! Want to talk about FAIR.  This product is several years old.  That "fix it" list of yours was  compiled almost a YEAR ago without any result and since then several new products have been released. Ask the other customers if they think that is FAIR.  I was able to fix more in 3 days, with tools not made for the job than CS has done in the past year for the 727.

I am a long time customer of CS and I speak from experience.  Some of the things on your fix it list (and mine) will never get fixed.  How is that insulting?  The truth is the truth.  Things such as Hyd brake interconnect light not staying on, oxygen light, improper annunicator lights, etc....The fact is these issues are "trivial" for CS and are more for the anal types such as myself.  That is what was meant by that statement.  Think I am wrong? Study past releases and their issues vs patches and you will see my statement is true.

I agree, being rude and disrespectful will not win anyone over at CS ( and I haven't been).  But you are foolish to think that changing words to "low priority" etc will get you your patch.  It is the hard work that I am doing that's gets things fixed. Period.

The bottom line is I am a paying customer that has taken the time to fix issues that CS should have. I do this for both myself and the betterment of the community.  I am entitled to write what I observe as long as it is in-line with proper conduct and the forum rules - BOTH of which have been respected thus far.

This thread is for me to collect my work and get feedback to FIX the problems with the product.  Any other discussions that are of no help to FIXING the product, including lessons of respect - have no place here.

Captain, thank you for your input here with fixes. Concerning patches - please see calendar.

Virtual_Captain wrote on Jul 14^th, 2011 at 3:41am:

anyone with half a brain would not translate that statement regarding myself as being against captain sim...that is just plain foolish  and the reason for my anger. There is too much "I am offended" going on here....are we men/adults or little children?

... and other offensive, rude comments are inappropriate at this forum. Removed (and will do) all comments not related to the topic subjet, please do not turn useful topic into a flame.

I hope to correct and / or add:

- Switch strobe lights
- Smoke generated from N2
- Pitch / trim less sensitive, something similar to that of DF.
- Any gauge that identifies the CG
- A table for EPR TKFF/ CLIMB/CRZ or a PDCS.
- Now with modernization of the fleet, it would be nice to update with a GNSS or GPS Trimble, even a simple one, only with VNAV.
- And the hush-kit stage 3, the F40 block.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb135/joaovitor2/IMG_1163.jpg

Captain Sim 2 wrote on Jul 13^th, 2011 at 7:59pm:

Captain, thank you for your input here with fixes. Concerning patches - please see calendar.

Well as a full paying box-customer I'm waiting for 2.4 for 2 years now..  >:(

MatzeH84 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2011 at 8:37pm:

Well as a full paying box-customer I'm waiting for 2.4 for 2 years now..  >:(

You are aware that 2.4 is out for over a year?
Lets suppose that 4 was a typo of yours and just vote for the next update (after the 757) to be related to the 727 instead of using the old 'I'm a customer and now fix my stuff' tenor.
That doesn't help at other companies too.


Saul Galeno, I suggest to look at the free flight model mod from Michael2 concerning some of your wishes. At least the CG thing and the tables will be items you may love.

Quote:

- Now with modernization of the fleet, it would be nice to update with a GNSS or GPS Trimble, even a simple one, only with VNAV.

I don't think that there is a real 727 with the full implementation of VNAV. Only a sort of guidance or rough T/C and T/D calculations may be present.
Some had a early FMC retrofitted, but I think it lacked of true VNAV capability like seen on e. g. the 757, which can fly the plane through all SIDs and STARs with the work of LNAV, VNAV and AT.

If you referred to LNAV instead, you may use the GPS gauge coming with the plane to allow that. You have a clickspot in the VC for that gauge. If you use the small NAV button mod, you are able to couple the AP to the GPS.
This may also work with some addon GPS gauges, but I haven't tried it myself since I'm flying either VOR to VOR or fancy (Lou: 'sissy') INS.
To get the INS into that plane, I did a small tutorial right here in the forums. Looks more genuine to me than any GPS thingy. Personal preference decides.  :)

CoolP wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2011 at 11:38am:

MatzeH84 wrote on Jul 21st, 2011 at 8:37pm: Well as a full paying box-customer I'm waiting for 2.4 for 2 years now..  >:( You are aware that 2.4 is out for over a year? Lets suppose that 4 was a typo of yours

He hasn't made a typo CoolP. ;)
The Just Flight Boxed "727 Captain" hasn't been updated to v2.4 yet. I don't know why they haven't done it. Unfortunately, the boxed version needs a "special update program" that they have to make and release to their customers.

Mark

Then honest apologies of course. Maybe someone could explain this strange delay then.

I always buy at CS directly and always will, but it's a shame that some customers are 'better customers' than others and, with this mind, MatzeH84 is perfectly right with this critics of course.
The only thing I don't know about is if this is a CS issue or a Just Flight one. Maybe one another company customer can trigger an official statement there?

That clear update downside should be made more known to avoid spoiled customers in my eyes. Even better, it should be rendered to a thing of the past.  :)

CoolP,

I was afraid to use the mod for Michaels because he developed what pro 727-200 PAX and different engine. Here only use the -F with the JT8D-17R.

Mod it just use the EPR gauge.

About navigation, I just fooling myself, meant LNAV. :D

[] s

Yeah, I now saw your post about some changed values in that mod. I can fully recommend it though.
With it, the 727 really goes spot on for me.

The OP's intention also was spot on, just in case anybody reads this the wrong way. I would LOVE to see CS doing a final 2.5 patch for the 727, getting rid of all the stuff listed in the forums (=not user based problems).
I don't have a need for extra features on that older release, I would just like to see all the stuff fixed and maybe some 707 findings (sound gauge, independent FO instruments) implemented.



Quote:

About navigation, I just fooling myself, meant LNAV.

Yes, I assumed that. No problem.  :)

Did you see that default GPS then? It comes up at the clickspot above the weather radar of when using Shift+number or the FSX menu.
You can add any gauge of your choice there, RXP gauge or something, to enhance the guidance capabilities if you like.
Adding it to the VC itself is a different beast of course, the 3D model is fixed there.

If you then add the NAV/GPS button to the AP (I think Mark had a solution there), you actually have some LNAV device.

hello CoolP,

please tell me where I can find the tutorial of implementing the (CIVA)INS into the 727 FSX.

thanks Kai

It's here, Kai. http://www.captainsim.org/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1286031420
Maybe leave a comment if it helped you, this will bump the thread a bit up.

thank you, it looks very well and I'm sure it will work as well too! I integrated it today; it's not difficult. Later I will test the plane with the new INS.

with greetings Kai

Hi, any news about an 727 update???

[quote author=Virtual_Captain link=1310069625/0#0
I’m creating this thread as a work-in-progress for the various issues I am attempting to correct.  My goal is to use this thread for feedback and help as I make the corrections.  Once completed, I’ll package up all my work here and update this post with release/download info.

Any news?

Virtual_Captain, having recently bought the CS 727 and  joined this forum, I too am annoyed and frustrated with the fact that there is no updates available for all the known issues involving the CS 727, apparently for quite sometime. Where can I find your modifications and bug fixes for download?