So where does everybody fly?   What liveries do you like best?

I fly in areas that are familiar to me from previous real world flights as a passenger (although none of them have been on a 727, unfortunately).  I use Glasgow or Edinburgh, Scotland as a sort of home base, then fly to other areas of the UK and Europe and then fly home.  I usually try to pick a livery that one might actually have seen during the era that this plane is from, but not always.  Nath's British Airways paints are lovely, I often fly BA-BSY, his -100 in BA "Landor" colours.  Beautiful!

I also love the Braniff Orange -200, the Cougar Freighter, the old United and Eastern -100's, and the funky UDF prototype.  I like all the others too.

I have Ansett Airlines and TAA (Trans Australian Airways) repaints and I mostly fly from Melbourne - Adelaide/Sydney/Brisbane/Canberra/Alice Springs/Darwin.

I did a return trip Melbourne - Adelaide - Melbourne back in about '83 with TAA. And I think that was the only time I've been on a 727.

Mark

I take my old CS 727-100 all over the place. One of the fun approaches in the 727 or the 757 is the River approach to KDCA. It was fun in the real plane and it's fun in the sim. Sometimes I make the weather bad and shoot a bunch of ILS's, just to keep my hand in the flying.

I also have all the special high def airports from FTX in the Pacific Northwest. I love just getting in the Cub with Ms. Heidi and touring the beautiful scenery. And Heidi keeps and eye out for traffic for me as well.

Lou

LOU wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 5:18pm:

I take my old CS 727-100 all over the place. One of the fun approaches in the 727 or the 757 is the River approach to KDCA. It was fun in the real plane and it's fun in the sim. Sometimes I make the weather bad and shoot a bunch of ILS's, just to keep my hand in the flying. I also have all the special high def airports from FTX in the Pacific Northwest. I love just getting in the Cub with Ms. Heidi and touring the beautiful scenery. And Heidi keeps and eye out for traffic for me as well. Lou

I just did a flight from KEWR to KDCA.  Using High Alt Airways with the FSX flight planner, I got FL180.  Does that sound right?   The FSX ATC gave me vectors for visual 15.  That was cool.  I nailed it.  

So what is the River approach?  Is there a chart that is downloadable?

All across europe.. usually I fly the 100 with my own Condor repaint, from germany to all those sunny destinations or just shorter hops (currently flying Stuttgart-Paphos). Also using the Cougar or FedEx 200F all across europe- mainly. Yesterday I took her from Lima into Cuzco.

Give the River Visual to KDCA a try....
http://www.fltplan.com/AwDisplayAppChart.exe?CRN10=1&CARRYUNAME=PILOT&DEPTARPT=KDCA&ARRARPT=XPTG&TYPECHART=00443RIVER_VIS19.PDF&END=END&WINDOW=YES

In the FMS planes this is too easy, but in a manly  :o  plane you need to make all the crossings.
Lou

Be certain to announce your intentions on CTAF while approaching DCA, though. http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshots/images/573_laugh.gif

i personally base my flight routes on payware airport addons, in the past year i bought around 20 airports accross europe like EDDF, LKGOS, LPFR, DTMB etc.

My main hub is EDDF and from their i created some routes towards all my other payware airport destinations with a self painted CS727 and CS707 (all cargo flights) depending on airport size :)

I have combined it with a small program FSCaptain (like fspassengers) to give a bit more touch :)

currently i'm saving some money to expand AES to get more live on the airports based around my aircraft (get a follow car after landing and stuff) very neat.  8-)

LOU wrote on Apr 17^th, 2011 at 3:48am:

Give the River Visual to KDCA a try.... http://www.fltplan.com/AwDisplayAppChart.exe?CRN10=1&CARRYUNAME=PILOT&DEPTARPT=KDCA&ARRARPT=XPTG&TYPECHART=00443RIVER_VIS19.PDF&END=END&WINDOW=YES In the FMS planes this is too easy, but in a manly  :o  plane you need to make all the crossings. Lou

Living in DC, I'm a big fan of the river visual, but I will note that its a bit harder in the sim than in real life because the bridges in FSX do not have the center lights that help guide you in at night.  

That is true, but the river is the only dark ribbon around, so you just stay in the middle. This is one of the most fun approaches to do in the 727 or the 757. One evening many years ago, I was flying the river visual just at dark. It was the 4 of July. As we turned past the Watergate Hotel, the sky erupted in the most amazing display of fireworks I have ever seen. What a show!  :)

Lou

LOU wrote on Apr 18^th, 2011 at 3:30pm:

One evening many years ago, I was flying the river visual just at dark. It was the 4 of July. As we turned past the Watergate Hotel, the sky erupted in the most amazing display of fireworks I have ever seen. What a show!  :) Lou

Awesome! What a unique view!

The DCA river approach is easy.
Start outside the DCA dme (111.0) and cross the 10 dme at 3,000ft over the river. Start your decent there. Multiply the dme x 3 and that will be the desired altitude all the way down. Be sure to stay over the river all the time. There is a quick jog to the left and then the right at 500ft to remain over the water. Don't miss that or you might get a phone call from your chief pilot who had a call from the FAA. Maybe not, but the people on the ground appreciate it. Besides, It's a fun approach.
















Start outside the 10 dme of DCA vor over the river and cross the 10 dme at 3,000 ft.
Multiply the dme distance times 3 all the way down and it will work just right.

LOU wrote on Apr 17^th, 2011 at 3:48am:

Give the River Visual to KDCA a try.... http://www.fltplan.com/AwDisplayAppChart.exe?CRN10=1&CARRYUNAME=PILOT&DEPTARPT=KDCA&ARRARPT=XPTG&TYPECHART=00443RIVER_VIS19.PDF&END=END&WINDOW=YES In the FMS planes this is too easy, but in a manly  :o  plane you need to make all the crossings. Lou

Thx for the recommendation.  I just did my first VATSIM flight with the 727-100 using only VOR/DME for navigation.  I have all the mods installed, so I was able to utilize the performance data, which worked very well, and it flew by the numbers.  I went from LAX to DCA and got to try my hand at the runway 19 river visual approach.  My route was KLAX LOOP6 DAG DRK J134 FLM J24 HVQ WZRRD2 KDCA, and I got to fly about half of the WZRRD2 approach before getting cleared direct to the AML vor.  I was then vectored by DCA approach to the river for the fun part down to runway 19.

I highly recommend learning how to navigate this aircraft using the old methods as it is a challenge and gives a sense of real accomplishment when you pull a flight off, especially under the observation of live ATC. Flying this way will also keep you really busy.

Sounds good, audiohavoc, really worth a try to do it the old way, which is the new way if you're used to FMCs.  :D

CoolP wrote on Apr 20^th, 2011 at 3:40pm:

Sounds good, audiohavoc, really worth a try to do it the old way, which is the new way if you're used to FMCs.  :D

Thanks, and that is my experience as well.  I started with glass but I am now flying a mixture of old and newer aircraft to help develop my skills.  Try navigating an old B-17 and than switch to a modern airliner :o.  Doing this has really increased my appreciation for glass cockpits and modern navigation.

Just took my 727-100 from KDCA to KIAH on VATSIM for another awesome flight.  I flew over a rather large thunderstorm over Tennessee and Arkansas, and there was quite the lighting show.  I flew the entire DAISETTA8 STAR to IAH (thanks to Navigraph chart software), but no APP or CTR was online, so I had to manually vector myself to the DUCOZ IAP for runway 15R.  Everyone who isn't navigating this aircraft the old school way is really missing out on a fun learning experience.  I am going to take the MD-11F for a spin tonight (FedEx Virtual Cargo) so I can enjoy some "easy" navigation for a change.

I'm not quite ready to fly this plane with live ATC yet, but I have been practicing the River Visual for KDCA that Lou turned us onto.

 I've done 3 circuits so far, and the 3rd was pretty decent.  The first 2 I would say would have been the "flight of the brown underpants" for the passengers, I'm afraid.   But I'm getting better.  That last turn to final is pretty hairy, trying to avoid going into that restricted area to the left where all the monuments and stuff are.    

Lou, it is really great to have you in the forum.  Thanks to several of your posts, I'm really getting much better at hand flying this plane and the KDCA approach is really fun.  I never would have thought to try something like that.  Any other really cool stuff you can think of to do that you used to do in the 727 that would interest us simmers?

audiohavoc - you flew the 727-100 from KLAX toKDCA... musta been flying on fumes the last few 100 miles, or you had a good tail wind.

David, Try the Parkway Visual to 13 L/R at KJFK. Bring the vis down to 3 miles or so and look for the lead-in lights that flash along the parkway.
This approach was easy and fun in the 727 or the 757, but the 747 made it a bit more interesting when the vis was around 3 miles and the wind howling out of the south at 25 kts. (normal summer day at JFK)

One summer afternoon we were all lined up for take off on 13R (14,600'). There must have been 30 or 40 planes. SWAP was in effect. (Severe Weather Avoidance Procedures). Thunderstorms on a summer afternoon in New York - NORMAL! Here comes Аэрофлот (Aeroflot) in a big wide body plane, and they are put on the Parkway visual, which was then called the Canarsie Approach - named after a place in Brooklyn. The weather is typical summer in JKF. Sea breeze off the Atlantic, blowing strong - with salt air. Visibility around 3 miles in haze. Summer in the City! The string of planes lined up on this approach goes forever. The Aeroflot boyz are having a heck of a time finding the runway and they have to go around. Normally a go around is not a big deal, but with the string of traffic at rush hour in New York - forgetaboutit! So the poor controller makes a space in the line and fits them in for another approach. Oh no! they miss again! Of course we are all listening on the tower and laughing, but feeling their pain. Back in line they go and try again. This time after much help from the local controller using his bright display radar to keep the Ruski on course he turns final and calls "Runway in sight"... a few seconds later on the tower frequency the Aeroflot pilots tells the tower "This approach is for the SH#TS! :o

Everybody broke out in laughter because we knew he was right!  ;D

On the LAX to DCA flight, I loaded it full of fuel and I think I still had around 6000 pounds total left over at the end of the flight.  I did have a very good tailwind, and my ground speed was around 530 kts if I remember correctly.  It was in the 727-100, so I was a little under the 2,700 nm range.

LOU wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2011 at 1:06am:

audiohavoc - you flew the 727-100 from KLAX toKDCA... musta been flying on fumes the last few 100 miles, or you had a good tail wind. David, Try the Parkway Visual to 13 L/R at KJFK. Bring the vis down to 3 miles or so and look for the lead-in lights that flash along the parkway. This approach was easy and fun in the 727 or the 757, but the 747 made it a bit more interesting when the vis was around 3 miles and the wind howling out of the south at 25 kts. (normal summer day at JFK) One summer afternoon we were all lined up for take off on 13R (14,600'). There must have been 30 or 40 planes. SWAP was in effect. (Severe Weather Avoidance Procedures). Thunderstorms on a summer afternoon in New York - NORMAL! Here comes Аэрофлот (Aeroflot) in a big wide body plane, and they are put on the Parkway visual, which was then called the Canarsie Approach - named after a place in Brooklyn. The weather is typical summer in JKF. Sea breeze off the Atlantic, blowing strong - with salt air. Visibility around 3 miles in haze. Summer in the City! The string of planes lined up on this approach goes forever. The Aeroflot boyz are having a heck of a time finding the runway and they have to go around. Normally a go around is not a big deal, but with the string of traffic at rush hour in New York - forgetaboutit! So the poor controller makes a space in the line and fits them in for another approach. Oh no! they miss again! Of course we are all listening on the tower and laughing, but feeling their pain. Back in line they go and try again. This time after much help from the local controller using his bright display radar to keep the Ruski on course he turns final and calls "Runway in sight"... a few seconds later on the tower frequency the Aeroflot pilots tells the tower "This approach is for the SH#TS! :o Everybody broke out in laughter because we knew he was right!  ;D

Awesome.  

For this approach, are the lead-in lights modeled in FSX?  I am not seeing them.  I decided to try this in the Cessna first, just to see how the approach works in FSX.  I can follow the parkway from rockaway point all the way in, but I don't see the lights.

They are modeled, but I think it has to be dusk or night in FSX to see them.  Check out the following video, this is from an actual 727 pilot, the lead-in lights are visible at about the :40 second mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEAUjgErJyI

audiohavoc wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2011 at 9:18pm:

They are modeled, but I think it has to be dusk or night in FSX to see them.  Check out the following video, this is from an actual 727 pilot, the lead-in lights are visible at about the :40 second mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEAUjgErJyI

Thanks for the link.  I see that the person who made the video is running addon scenery for this airport.  I have tried both dusk and night and I am still not seeing the lead-in lights.  I have my scenery density set all the way to the right.  

Can anyone confirm if these lights are shown in default FSX scenery for the JFK area?  

David,

I think you need add-on scenery to see the lead in lights.

Here is a picture of me on the approach just past the CRI VOR inbound to RW 13L at JFK.

http://home.comcast.net/~lou.lynn/cri-app.jpg

This is a poor photo because I shot it with my digital camera off the TV.
You can see the parkway and in the video you can see the lead in lights.
I had to paint them in here so they could be seen because they are
sequence flashing lights and in a still photo you would only see maybe
one light at a time. In the video you can see them as short strings
of light leading you toward the two runways.

I have some video of me flying around in the 757, but it's on VHS,
so I'll have to copy it over to digital and make it a MP3 or some
other type so I can share it on this forum.

http://home.comcast.net/~lou.lynn/cri-app2.jpg

Here I am just about to slick-it-on to runway 13L at JFK  ;D

I found an AFCAD file that gives you the lead-in lights for FSX.  It is at flightsim.com by the name of afx_kjfk.zip.  Or just search FSX files for "canarsie" and you'll find it.   Works great!  I flew the approach about 10 times yesterday, getting better and better at it.  So far I've only gone down to 5 mile visibility.   13L is fairly easy.  13R is a little trickier, but I can do it a lot smoother than the guy in that youtube vid.  

How do you install this file?
It downloads as: AFX_KJFK.bgl
I have no clue what to do with a .bgl file.

LOU wrote on Apr 24^th, 2011 at 6:38pm:

How do you install this file? It downloads as: AFX_KJFK.bgl I have no clue what to do with a .bgl file.

You put in the addon scenery/scenery folder.  That's it.  As far as I can tell, the lights only show up in dawn, dusk, or night mode.  With visibilty set to 5 miles, I see them just about when I pass over the vor at around 1600 feet.  

After you nail one of these landings, it is a blast to replay it from the FO's view.  pan over so you get the side window as well as forward view, zoom in a little, and sit back and enjoy the view!

This is a really cool one , Lou.  The names of everything in the area are so iconic---Flatbush, Rockaway, etc.  I've never been to NYC other than changing planes at KEWR on the way from Chicago to Glasgow, but now I have a better understanding of the area from throwing this 727 around the vicinity.  DC too, thanks to the river approach!

Any others?   :)

Dave,

Thanks for the direction. They look just like the real thing!  :o

http://home.comcast.net/~lou.lynn/cri.jpg

As you can see this screen capture was taken at 600 feet on the last part of the Parkway Visual to RW 13L at KJFK.
I point out the roads because they were all used as landmarks during the approach.
I have the visibility set at 2 miles, you needed three to fly the approach.
I call your attention to the hotel, just under the last lead-in set of lights.
One evening, many years back, someone left tire tracks across the roof of the hotel, taking out a few TV antennas and a roof vent.  :-?
I don't think anyone ever fessed up to doing that.

Lou

Did you mostly land on 13L when you did this approach?  13R seems a lot more intense at least in the sim, because you can't see over to the airport unless you pan over.  13L you can pretty much see everything you need to see through the front view.  

For me the trick to 13R is to avoid starting the turn to final too soon.  I always want to start right after the lights go out of view below me, but that is a little too soon.   I'm still dialing that in, but I'll eventually get it.  

It seems to me that the default ATC will never let you fly this approach.  I wonder if the payware add-on "Radar Contact" would let you fly this approach under the right conditions.  

13L was almost always the landing runway since 13R - the long runway, 14,600'- was used for takeoff.

The trick is to just follow the parkway around.

In the fancy plane, the one with FMS, all you had to do was define the end point of the runway and use the 300 feet per mile rule. The problem in real life is that JFK gets scud (low clouds and fog) in the afternoon so even if the tower vis was 3 miles or so the areas on the approach could have some low clouds mixed in. This was a real fun approach in the 727 and 707. The Glass planes (sissy) made it very easy.

Another fun approach was the Expressway Visual to RW 31 at KLGA. No lights for help here, but you passed on from brave to brave little check points to make the approach go better. This was great fun in the 727, but really fun in the 767 or I'm told the 1011!

Another fun approach is the dual ILS/Visuals to runway 28L/R in KSFO. The runways are only a few hundred feet apart and you would often have two good size planes doing the approach at the same time. They would stagger the planes just a bit and admonish you not to pass the other plane. This was fun with a 747 and 767-300 at the same time. http://www.fltplan.com/AwDisplayAppChart.exe?CRN10=1&CARRYUNAME=PILOT&DEPTARPT=KSFO&ARRARPT=XPTG&TYPECHART=00375QUIETBRIDGE_VIS28LR.PDF&END=END&WINDOW=YES

Usually out of KLAX or KATL, but only short flights, with IFR vectoring, I don't have a comfy seat yet...

Well, I fly the Old Pan-Am liveries, and sometimes the Delta livery on the -200.

I usually will take it where ever it will go, but you'll see me alot down in Kingston, Jamaica, - MKJP, St. Maarten, Netherlands Antilles (spelling done with no help! Don't bash me!) TNCM, and around there, as well as Grenada. It's a great sight seeing plane!

My 727 fly over Africa (Jartum, Kigali, Nyamey, Libreville, Accra, Malabo...) and over Europe flying to West Berlin with Pan Am.

My 727 flies all over the U.S, mostly over Hawaii and Florida.

ce_zeta wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 11:27am:

My 727 fly over Africa (Jartum, Kigali, Nyamey, Libreville, Accra, Malabo...) and over Europe flying to West Berlin with Pan Am.

Oh, how cool!   I'll have to give some of those places a visit sometime soon.  

Are you familiar with these places in real life?

Like Lou just about everywhere I can but as I am Aussie based I have done a lot of trips around Australia and the Pacific, although between Pacific Islands needs a little thought about runway lengths and fuel requirements. Longest run has been Seattle Washington to Brisbane Australia.

Islander, since your down under, you should this: http://www.dump.com/2010/12/21/did-you-know-theres-an-entire-type-of-aircraft-that-relies-on-the-ground-effect-to-stay-aloft-video/

David Paul wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 10:37pm:

ce_zeta wrote on May 7th, 2011 at 11:27am: My 727 fly over Africa (Jartum, Kigali, Nyamey, Libreville, Accra, Malabo...) and over Europe flying to West Berlin with Pan Am. Oh, how cool!   I'll have to give some of those places a visit sometime soon.   Are you familiar with these places in real life?

Only a bit, but not in the field, bureaucrazy and is surreal  :-?

Greetings! Haven't checked in here for quite some time!

In the 60s I worked for PAA in res so I fly the old 727 Caribbean routes such as MIA/NAS/SJU/BGI/ANU/FDF etc,  and Central American routes like HOU/MEX/TGU/GUA/OCO/TUM etc.

In 1984 I was sls mgr for the short lived Frontier Horizon. The sales force consisted of pilots/fa's/csr's that volunteered their down time to make sales calls on travel agents in our destination cities DEN/SFO/ORD/LGA/IAD/TPA/MCO. We'd make sales calls all day and party into the night! Having become acquainted with a lot of the crew members I was usually invited to ride the jump seat when I got on one of our planes. It only lasted a year, but it was great fun.

Here's one of our 722s arriving at ORD!

http://vimeo.com/23779915

Bruce

Bruce,

Good to have you back on the forums!
Nice video of the 727 into ORD.
Hope the Manhattan's are nice and cold!  ;)

Lou

btscott wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 2:42pm:

Greetings! Haven't checked in here for quite some time! In the 60s I worked for PAA in res so I fly the old 727 Caribbean routes such as MIA/NAS/SJU/BGI/ANU/FDF etc,  and Central American routes like HOU/MEX/TGU/GUA/OCO/TUM etc. In 1984 I was sls mgr for the short lived Frontier Horizon. The sales force consisted of pilots/fa's/csr's that volunteered their down time to make sales calls on travel agents in our destination cities DEN/SFO/ORD/LGA/IAD/TPA/MCO. We'd make sales calls all day and party into the night! Having become acquainted with a lot of the crew members I was usually invited to ride the jump seat when I got on one of our planes. It only lasted a year, but it was great fun. Here's one of our 722s arriving at ORD! http://vimeo.com/23779915 Bruce

Great vid!

Hi Lou!!!

Hah! You remembered the Manhattan Approach!! By doggies, I think tonight's the night too!  :o

I was catching up on your posts a while ago. You're definitely still the go to guy here. You and Mark that is. Delta Dog is still around, and it seems there are a couple other real deal 727 guys as well.

I had the 100 working pretty darn good and tracking the glide-slope nicely back then and all of a sudden things went haywire. I finally gave up and went to the another company 757. Couldn't stay away from the CS 727s though so now I've been back on them quite a bit, but I have to use my yoke trim toggle all the way down to the runway. The Localizer works fine though. I suppose I could hand fly it, but that gets ugly!

I still haven't learned the VOR to VOR stuff, so I just let the default ATC get me where I'm going. As Mark said earlier they can be pretty frustrating at times though. I liked you're comment on how you use it too ---- something like *radar services terminated ---- squawk such and such!

Cheers to you!

Bruce

PS - I'm looking for a house in central PA---- would that be State College?  ;D

@ David ---- thanks!!

Careful on the Manhattan approach. Don't use too much trim. Ah hell, too much is just right!

I live in a little town right across the river from Harrisburg, PA God's Country

I you came to live here, the police would be busy with the two of us!  :D

Lou

Yes, that IS God's Country!! I've ridden my motorcycle from Gettysburg to York to Lancaster and around that area a couple times when I lived in Vienna, VA in the mid 80s (right after Frontier Horizon). Beautiful!!

The Harrisburg Police have nothing to worry about. My wife will never leave Denver again! Two kids and two grand kids here!

I see by the clock that it is cocktail hour there ---- salute!

Hi Bruce.

Welcome back! It's great to see you back in the forums after a long absence. The value of the information from real pilots, like Lou and yourself, is VERY welcome and very much appreciated. ;)

Mark

Hey, Mark -

Ease up on the Manhattans!

I'm not a real pilot, and, truth be known, YOU actually know a heck of a lot more about this piloting stuff than I do! I'm pretty much seat of the pants! You are THE heavy lifter here in these forums, and guys like Lou, Jet Pilot and Delta Dog provide the real world experience and the wonderful tales that feed our dreams and send us to bed at night with visions of flying the *River Approach* at DCA and the *Carnisie Approach* at JFK in the summer heat! Priceless!

I really think you folks have a very significant role in the success of the CS products!

Hmm, on second thought, maybe I should ease up on the Manhattans!  :D

Bruce

Hmm, on second thought, maybe I should ease up on the Manhattans!  

NEVER!  8-)

Hey Lou----

Check out my just now posted topic on the 707 forum on the Fall Pan Am TV pilot!

Bruce

btscott wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 3:20am:

Hey, Mark - Ease up on the Manhattans! I'm not a real pilot, and, truth be known, YOU actually know a heck of a lot more about this piloting stuff than I do! I'm pretty much seat of the pants! You are THE heavy lifter here in these forums, and guys like Lou, Jet Pilot and Delta Dog provide the real world experience and the wonderful tales that feed our dreams and send us to bed at night with visions of flying the *River Approach* at DCA and the *Carnisie Approach* at JFK in the summer heat! Priceless! I really think you folks have a very significant role in the success of the CS products! Hmm, on second thought, maybe I should ease up on the Manhattans!  :D Bruce

Sorry Bruce. I had you confused with deltadog. My bad. :(

Now...Where did I put my bl**dy Manhattan???? :D :D :D

Mark

A Bloody Manhattan??!! Interesting concept! More sweet vermouth and cherry juice I assume!!  ;D

Duly noted. Post is edited!  :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D