I am able to get the green lights fir the localizer but when I get about 10 or 15 miles out and got to glideslope on ap and the the fd the plane starts to climb For example atc tells you to go down to 1500 ft runway 4l and now you are on the localizer its green on the cockpit you are on autpilot. Atc says you are clear to and and you click on the glideslope both on the autopilot and the fd and craft stats to go up and up.

please helpme and tell me what I am doing wrong, have not had problems woth 737 md-80 or 767 what am I doing wrong ? need some good advise.  thansk Ronny

It sounds to me like you are switching the Autopilot to AUTO GS too soon. You need to wait for the Glide Slope Pointer (the *white triangle on the left side of the ADI) to be slightly above center before switching the Autopilot to AUTO GS.

* See ‘727 Captain’ FLIGHT MANUAL Part II – Aircraft and Systems (cs727_manual2.pdf) page 11, L07. ATTITUDE DIRECTOR INDICATOR (ADI).

Mark

Ronny,

You say you are 10 to 15 miles out and then you descend to 1,500. If this is correct you are way below the glide slope at that point. If you select MAN G/S instead of AUTO G/S the plane will indeed climb since the glide slope is above and MAN G/S will capture both the LOC & G/S right now!

The standard glide slope is around 300 feet per mile, so at 10 miles out the glide slope is at 3,000 feet. Even if you were at 1,500 feet and had captured the LOC and tracking inbound, you could select AUTO G/S and capture of the glide slope would happen as the G/S needle centered.

Lou

so thus once I hit the localizer with the ils freuency about say 25 miles out what is the difference between auto glide slope and main glide slope on the ap.? wHAt is the sequence here withe the glide slpe, should I just hit main g/s when the triangle on the adf is just above the middle ?

by the way I know we are getting close cause I recently did a couple of il landing unfortuntately since I was a bit of course took over manually. I love this plane and its my favorite all time so help me out, we are defintely making progress..

Ronny,

This is something I wrote a while back. Read it over and also read the manual then go fly a few approaches and see how it works for you.
Don't go so far out on the approach. A 10 mile final works just fine. Read the information in this tip and it will explain the ILS workings.

Lou

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 727 Tips

The key to a autopilot approach is not to hurry the poor autopilot. Remember this is 1950's state-of-the-art stuff so you can't expect 757, 767, or Airbus navigation or electronics. In the real plane you need to be set-up for the approach long before intercept...no different here!

Get all the radios set to the correct frequencies and set the course on the HDI to the ILS inbound course. You can get the correct freq. from the MAP drop-down. Just mouse over the ILS for the runway you plan to land on and the ILS information will appear.

As you fly in the traffic pattern have the autopilot in MANUAL or HEADING SELECT with ALTITUDE HOLD engaged. You can steer the plane in heading select and work yourself toward and intercept heading.

Here are some ball park or canned speeds to fly in the pattern:
Landing weight 125,000 to 130,000#
CLEAN - 230 KTS (not less than 200 KTS)
FLAPS 2 - Not more than 230 KTS not less than say 180 KTS
FLAPS 5 -between 180 and 160 KTS
FLAPS 15 around 150 KTS

As you get close to the ILS intercept be at FLAPS 15 and around 150 KTS. This will give you a better degrees per second turn rate thus giving the old autopilot a better chance of success. (the faster you go the slower the turn rate for a given bank angle)

You can select AUTO-G/S anytime during your vectoring for the intercept. The autopilot will remain in HEADING SELECT until LOC intercept.
You must remain BELOW the G/S and intercept the LOC first.

I set up the plane on an intercept heading of around 30 degrees to the localizer and on the initial approach altitude for the ILS selected and about 10 miles from the airport.

I set up the autopilot & F/D in altitude hold and heading select.

I select G/S AUTO on both the autopilot and the F/D. I am flying at 150 KTS with flaps 15 which is a normal setting for this phase of the approach.

Give the autopilot a chance to do it's thing by not rushing the approach.

As the LOC comes alive, the autopilot and F/D will captured the LOC and intercept. The heading select will trip off. With the LOC captured and the plane at 150 KTS and flaps 15 degrees I am now trucking towards the runway. As the G/S comes alive select gear down. One dot to G/S intercept select flaps 30 degrees and as the plane pitches down at G/S intercept adjust power to maintain speed. For these approaches I set the fuel load to 20,000 # and I used around 125 KTS on final.

Note on the F/D... To get "all angle capture" by the F/D you must first select HEADING SELECT and be in that mode for a few seconds before selecting G/S AUTO. The F/D will remain in heading select and can be controlled with the heading knob up until capture of the LOC. If you do not do this heading select first and go directly to G/S AUTO the F/D will program a 45 degree intercept. Not a big deal, but this will give you the option of guiding the plane to an intercept heading during vectoring.

Take note of the approach progress display group of lights on the instrument panel. They show the modes of the autopilot and the F/D as they go through the various arm & capture modes.

Make smooth and slow power changes and try to hold a constant speed. Every speed change will result in a pitch change and thus a trim change and the approach becomes unstable. I use FUEL FLOW to set power. At 30 degrees flap at this weight around 2,000 to 2,500 FF should be close. Adjust smoothly to stay on speed.

The 727 is not an auto land plane so you must disconnect before touchdown.

MANUAL G/S was only used:
When above the glide slope or on an extended (long) approach.

Once the ILS is captured by the autopilot a timer starts in the autopilot. As the aircraft gets closer to the runway the LOC and G/S get more sensitive. Boeing designed the glide slope to begin desensitization as the plane would get closer to the runway. In the 727-100 this was based on time. (the 727-200 used the radar altimeter - much better! Did not need to use this procedure.)

So, if you are on an extended (long) final and you have intercepted the ILS at a higher altitude the G/S would need to be re-sensitized during the approach. Here is how you do this: While in AUTO G/S and on LOC and G/S, you select a non radio mode - HEADING SELECT, then select MANUAL G/S quickly by pushing down on the switch and move to MANUAL G/S. Folks, this is way too detailed for this simulator. Just don't fly too long a final and intercept at a higher altitude. You can fly a 50 mile LOC (done sometines in KLAX or KLAS) just don't select AUTO G/S until 7 or 8 miles out.

I hope this information helps. It's a bit technical, but simmers like myself enjoy the detail. I find this CS-727 to be a blast and a lot of fond memories of the old plane which was always fun to fly.

Remember this is a "game" not a multi-million dollar simulator. I think it's a great simulation and it flys pretty much like the real thing which was not CAT-II. Give it a try and don't rush the approach and it will do a good job.

From: 727 Captain (FSX) / Tips and Tricks (QID 6061)

Markoz wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 12:27pm:

It sounds to me like you are switching the Autopilot to AUTO GS too soon. You need to wait for the Glide Slope Pointer (the *white triangle on the left side of the ADI) to be slightly above center before switching the Autopilot to AUTO GS. * See ‘727 Captain’ FLIGHT MANUAL Part II – Aircraft and Systems (cs727_manual2.pdf) page 11, L07. ATTITUDE DIRECTOR INDICATOR (ADI). Tracking this thread and its something I have wondered about.  What are you supposed to do if the ATC asigns a lower altitude.  I have asked in the for a specific altitude and been denied. Great thread though. Mark

Hi ottoramsaig.

You follow the ATC. Once ATC starts vectoring you on the approach, you do as they say. They do not follow any specific approaches that I can tell, so I don't put any in the plan.

I have the first waypoint from my departure airport at about 40 miles out. My final waypoint, is usually about 100-120 miles earlier. That way I follow my plan, and ATC will guide to my first waypoint track, and start vectoring after my last waypoint. That way there are no conflicts between plan and the ATC.

I would love to know what Lou does.

Hope this helps.

Mark

Cancel IFR, squawk 1200, frequency changed approved.

I tried that ATC stuff... UGH! Too much like work.  :-?

Lou

LOU wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2011 at 5:22pm:

Cancel IFR, squawk 1200, frequency changed approved. I tried that ATC stuff... UGH! Too much like work.  :-? Lou

The feeling is mutual! ;D