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727 Captain >> 727 Captain >> New User Questions
https://www.captainsim.org/forum/csf.pl?num=1269093045

Message started by btscott on Mar 20th, 2010 at 1:50pm

Title: Re: New User Questions
Post by JETPILOT on Mar 22nd, 2010 at 8:19am
First... 112,000 pound landing weight in the 727 is unrealistic. Minimum landing fuel in the 727 is about 9000lbs depending on the companies SOP. You're tanks were empty. You also had no cargo or pax. 140-150,000 lbs is a normal landing weight.

The 727 uses what is called a TOLD card or Takeoff Landing Data Card. For landing the TOLD card dsiplays:

Landing weight
Go Around EPR
Minimum flap maneuvering speeds for each flap setting
VAPP Approach speed
VREF Landing speed

At 150,000 lbs your minumum manouvering speed will be 150 kts at flaps 15. Flaps 25 has a VREF speed only printed on the charts and is VREF 40 + 8kts. VREF 40 is 130kts + 8 = 138 kts minimum manouvering speeed for flaps 25. BUT use VREF speed if VAPP is higher than minimum flap manouvering speed for flaps 25. VREF for flaps 30 is 134kts. Add 10 kts to that for your approach speed VAPP and you have 144kts for your flap 30 VAPP.

You also have to add in your wind correction which is half the wind + all of the gust. If the landing wind is 10kts  gusting 15 then add 7.5 kts to your VAPP.

So recounting... At flaps 25 on localiser you should be at 144 kts. When the glideslope comes alive you lower the gear. Adjust power as necessary to maintain airspeed. Small changes. Nothing big. Once you have intercepted the glideslope add flaps 30. Adjust power to maintain VAPP/144kts. Again small changes and wait to see the results. Fly the localiser and glideslope making small corrections. You should be stabilised inside the outer marker.

Turn off the autopilot and try hand flying the approach. For some reason the AP did not intercept the glideslope. Also turn off the flight director as it wasn't working. You're pitch/power changes were too abrupt. You were not scanning the instruments or you would have made the corrections sooner. You need to develop a good instrument scan. On an ILS at 140kts you should see about a 750' per minute decent rate to maintain a 3 degree glideslope. You were totally ignoring the VSI. Also.... don't look out the window. That's cheating! Full scale deflection of the localiser or glideslope is a mandatory missed approach.

Flying these jets is no easy thing to do. You fly by the numbers. and you have to be on them. If you let the plane get ahead of you you are already out of the game. You were way behind the plane.

Nice landing though. I didn't see if you got the spoilers open or not. You also don't have to wait for the nose wheel to touch down to reverse. getthem into reverse as soon as the mains touch.

Now try adding checklists to the approach, radios communications and shooting the ILS down to minimums popping out at 200' in 1/2 mi vis with blowing snow, icy runway, winds 45kts gusting to 60 with a 15 kt crosswind in moderate turbulence after holding for 30 minutes in heavy icing.  :)

I remember going into CVG in heavy icing. We were told to hold and entered the hold. The Kitty Hawk 727 holding above us lost 2 engines after ingesting ice and declared an emergency. He went in before us and they had to tow him off the runway since he lost a system hydraulics for nosewheel steering. We were up there about 40 mi and picking up ice fast. They were reporting braking conditions poor. We landed without an issues I taxid into my parking spot and walked down the steps and as soon as my feet hit the ramp I fell on my tushy. There was about 1/2 an inch of freezing rain on the ground and that's when I got a good look at the tail which is not de-iced and there was about 6" of ice built up on the front of the stab leading edge. What a night that was.

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