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Revision Items (Read 1567 times)
JETPILOT
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Revision Items
11.03.2009 at 05:46:10
 
I fly the 727 in real life and noted a few things which would be nice if they were addressed.

1. There is no stick shaker. Found this out the hard way! There should also be a panel on the overhead to test the stick shaker function.

2. Fuel Icing Lights. The fuel icing lights on the engineer panel are almost always illuminated. In my experience flying the 727 the fuel icing lights never illuminate. The fuel icing lights indicate that the fuel filter is icing up which is certainly an abnormal occurance. I noticed if you put on the fuel heat that the lights extinguish, but if the fuel heat is turned off then the lights coem back on. There is a limitation of ten minutes of operation with the fuel heat on since the fuel cools the oil your oil temps will rise. So the operation of this feature in the sim is unrealistic.

3. There should be an aural tone when 1000 ft from level off in conjunction with the altitude alerter visual cue. This one is important.

4. GPWS warning on landing... This has been mentioned before. This could be due to the fact that the flpa config on the quiet wing  planes does not allow landing with flaps 40. The 727 is equipped with a "GPWS Flap Inhibit" switch which silenced the GPWS when landing at less than flaps 40. I did not see this sytem installed.

5. The airspeed bugs are not visible at night.

6. Cockpit window opening in flight. I hit the window handle with my mouse and the wondow opened at FL330. Whe nthe airplane is pressurized the window can't be opened since it's a plug type window.

7. Oval #2 engine inlet on the -200 series. Come on guys!

8. Need a plain white paint option and paint kit ASAP!

These are my initial findings. maybe I will have more to addd. Overall a nice accurate simulation.
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JETPILOT
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Re: Revision Items
Reply #1 - 12.03.2009 at 06:55:48
 
In reference to #2 above. I found the stick shaker test panel on the overhead, but there is no stick shaker function.

I also found an issue with the manual.....

In the 2nd manual on pg 19 "C09" o nthe foward panel is listed as "CSD low oil pressure lights". That is incorrect. These are engine oil pressure lights which illuminate when there is low engine oil pressure or an impending bypass of the corresponding engine oil filter due to contamination.

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JETPILOT
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Re: Revision Items
Reply #2 - 13.03.2009 at 20:30:45
 
Another thing to note. I was mostly flying the 727 up til last night with the auto pilot on at 1000 AGL. So i didn't notice the airplane trim function which operates nothing like the real plane and made the plane unflyable. The high speed trim was still too sensetive and the pitch changes very dramatic. It was impossibel to trim the plane out flying by hand on the climb out. The trim whee lalso operates too slowly with the flaps down.

The cruise trim was impossible to use in the VC because you can't set the cruise trim conterol and the instruments at the same time. In the real plane the cruise trim operaters at a much lower speed making much smaller trim changes. The cruise trim in the plane operated too fast.

With flaps extended and the high speed trim in use there was no noise which as anyone who flew the 727 would know.... the high speed trim is very loud and the wheel flies around like a hubcap comming off a car.

This plane was unflyable without the auto pilot on.
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Buzz313th
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Re: Revision Items
Reply #3 - 18.03.2009 at 03:36:22
 
If you don't mind me asking, Who you flying the 72 for?

JB
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Captain Sim 2
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Re: Revision Items
Reply #4 - 18.03.2009 at 12:12:29
 
JetPilot, thank you for your reports. But this forum is not for technical support. For technical support and issues reporting please check-in to Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register!!
then click Product Name > Customer Support >
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Enjoy Your Flight!

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Red STar
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Re: Revision Items
Reply #5 - 25.03.2009 at 01:49:05
 
Thanks to Jet Pilot for his comments. Even if Technical Support cannot respond in this forum, it is very instructive to have a real-world pilot make comparisons between the aircraft and the sim. Many of the points JP made I have noticed myself but could not be sure how they related to the real 727. My main references for the 727 are:
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"Boeing 727 Flight Master" by Moktadier
"Handling the Big Jets, 3rd Edition" by Davies (rare book)
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(for the full TWA manual)
"Jet Simming" by Bill Stack
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This is a superb simulation of a great aircraft and rewards some study.
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Michael2
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Re: Revision Items
Reply #6 - 28.03.2009 at 06:11:34
 
It's really great to see posts from someone who flies the real thing. JetPilot,  I encourage you to fill out support tickets for these items. It seems the only way to get a fix on these issues.  I have to say, most of the concerns I raised through that system were addressed in the first service pack.

As for the trim, I have found it to be too coarse to be usable. I've been using a program called realtrim to give better results.

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Bob Markey
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Re: Revision Items
Reply #7 - 07.04.2009 at 00:37:10
 
JP, thanks for the comments.

If you look from the FO's point of view, just ahead of his ADF radio is the GPWS inhibit switch, but... it's non-op. Sad  I'd like to see it operational in the future so we can shut up the annoying warning on a non-40 approach. Smiley

Also, I concur on the trim sensitivities.  I've reported it to CS support, and they said my reported items should be in the next SP.  I find that if I use the trim switch near the FO's trim wheel, the increments are much more usable- but it is not practical to look down there and mouse a button on the console when the plane (and thus the eyepoint) are moving in response to the changes.  God forbid you're pressing the mouse button when the eyepoint move shifts the mouse off the switch, the panel will not register this as a "let go" but rather a "keep on pushing that nose down"...  Embarrassed

Still overall, impressed with the plane, and continue flying it on a semi-regular basis.
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NOTE: I'm on hiatus, concentrating on flight training. Most of what I'm flying right now is a C172N similar to what I'm training in. I'll try to check in and answer questions when I can, but please don't be impatient, I have other priorities right now! Cheesy

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HoggyDog
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Re: Revision Items
Reply #8 - 11.12.2009 at 01:31:19
 
Captain Sim 2 wrote on 18.03.2009 at 12:12:29:
JetPilot, thank you for your reports. But this forum is not for technical support. For technical support and issues reporting please check-in to Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register!!
then click Product Name > Customer Support >


JP did not ask for tech support, he is pointing out inaccuracies and/or programming errors and/or functional errors in the current release of the product. JP's post is exactly "on-subject" of "It'd Be Nice" which is billed as "the place to ask for what we would like to see in future releases," to wit: fix the errors he detailed in the next release. Most of the other posts here are of exactly the same kind with exactly the same intent.

"Tech Support" is for getting help on issues that do not work as designed. All of the issues JP has raised are apparently functioning "as designed" but the design is inaccurate or flawed. This area is for requesting REDESIGNS or other additions because the initial design or implementation is deemed to be somehow deficient.

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HoggyDog
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Re: Revision Items
Reply #9 - 11.12.2009 at 01:53:39
 
JETPILOT wrote on 13.03.2009 at 20:30:45:
[...] the airplane trim function which operates nothing like the real plane and made the plane unflyable. The high speed trim was still too sensetive and the pitch changes very dramatic. It was impossibel to trim the plane out flying by hand on the climb out.[...]
In the real plane the cruise trim operaters at a much lower speed making much smaller trim changes. The cruise trim in the plane operated too fast.


I fixed this in my installation. I edited aircraft config as follows:

[flight_tuning]
//elevator_trim_effectiveness = 1.0
elevator_trim_effectiveness = 0.3

This reduced the aggressiveness of cruise trim to 30% of the CS setting, and seems to me to work perfectly. The airplanes are now very trimmable in cruise using the elevator trim control switch that I set up on my Saitek X45 throttle handle.
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CAPILOT
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Re: Revision Items
Reply #10 - 27.12.2009 at 12:59:07
 
HoggyDog wrote on 11.12.2009 at 01:31:19:
Captain Sim 2 wrote on 18.03.2009 at 12:12:29:
JetPilot, thank you for your reports. But this forum is not for technical support. For technical support and issues reporting please check-in to Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register!!
then click Product Name > Customer Support >


JP did not ask for tech support, he is pointing out inaccuracies and/or programming errors and/or functional errors in the current release of the product. JP's post is exactly "on-subject" of "It'd Be Nice" which is billed as "the place to ask for what we would like to see in future releases," to wit: fix the errors he detailed in the next release. Most of the other posts here are of exactly the same kind with exactly the same intent.

"Tech Support" is for getting help on issues that do not work as designed. All of the issues JP has raised are apparently functioning "as designed" but the design is inaccurate or flawed. This area is for requesting REDESIGNS or other additions because the initial design or implementation is deemed to be somehow deficient.


Well said Smiley
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Captain Sim 2
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Re: Revision Items
Reply #11 - 28.12.2009 at 15:35:21
 
JETPILOT wrote on 11.03.2009 at 05:46:10:
2. Fuel Icing Lights. The fuel icing lights on the engineer panel are almost always illuminated. In my experience flying the 727 the fuel icing lights never illuminate. The fuel icing lights indicate that the fuel filter is icing up which is certainly an abnormal occurance. I noticed if you put on the fuel heat that the lights extinguish, but if the fuel heat is turned off then the lights coem back on. There is a limitation of ten minutes of operation with the fuel heat on since the fuel cools the oil your oil temps will rise. So the operation of this feature in the sim is unrealistic.

4. GPWS warning on landing... This has been mentioned before. This could be due to the fact that the flpa config on the quiet wing  planes does not allow landing with flaps 40. The 727 is equipped with a "GPWS Flap Inhibit" switch which silenced the GPWS when landing at less than flaps 40. I did not see this sytem installed.

6. Cockpit window opening in flight. I hit the window handle with my mouse and the wondow opened at FL330. Whe nthe airplane is pressurized the window can't be opened since it's a plug type window.

7. Oval #2 engine inlet on the -200 series. Come on guys!


The issues have been addressed in SP2.3
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Enjoy Your Flight!

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asanal
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Re: Revision Items
Reply #12 - 27.01.2010 at 19:18:31
 
Captain Support,

JP comments is valuable to make your product more desireable by your customer. YOU SHOULD NOT FEEL
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asanal
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Re: Revision Items
Reply #13 - 27.01.2010 at 19:45:58
 
Sim Captain Support,
I accidentally pushed "post" a few minutes ago.  Here is the full post of what I want to say:

JP comments are valuable to make your product more desirable to your customer. YOU SHOULD NOT take as criticism. You will not find many active  727 Pilot/FEs in your forum.
There is nothing wrong with  727 becoming the  most wanted airplane in SIMworld. There plenty of members  trying to help your developers, to give ideas and  support in order to create enjoyable times with 727 .
Maybe it is time to open an additional forum section . IN this section we can outline product experience, ideas and problem solving. This new forum will not replace CS Support Tickets. It will pinpoint cases to write a ticket.

I appreciate Captain Sim effort and dedication to Simflying. I am enjyoing your 727X and 767X

Regards
Sanal
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asanal
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Re: Revision Items
Reply #14 - 27.01.2010 at 20:14:37
 
May be I should simplify my comment. It is beneficial to CS Support if communication can be two way for  technical issues outline in this post, before "Ticket" developed .

Sanal
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