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 25 Pro line :) (Read 9453 times)
windplayer
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Pro line :)
Apr 9th, 2013 at 9:55am
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Cmon guys! Make it a PRO line Smiley
Maybe 2 versions? Fun line + $ = Pro Line?
  
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #1 - Apr 9th, 2013 at 11:21pm
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Agreed, but it's possible the full version will be a Pro Line. We hope  Grin
  


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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #2 - Apr 11th, 2013 at 7:40pm
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At this point, having a long awaited aircraft such as the L1011 as a "fun line" is really a waste. This is the perfect opportunity for CS to have the first and only full simulation L1011 on the market and I hope CS doesn't waste that opportunity.

There is sufficient information on the L1011 to produce a top notch product
  


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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #3 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 2:57pm
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I'll only buy it if it is Pro-line
  

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Markoz
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #4 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 4:09pm
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If the L-1011 VC is going to be anything like the B-52 VC, then it will be great. But with more advanced systems, it would be awesome. Grin
  

Mark Fletcher

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R. Aranda S.
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #5 - Apr 13th, 2013 at 5:17am
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Captain Sim has made "Pro Line" 707, 727 and classic 737 and I don't know why, having such extensive experience and bases, are going to take their time producing a L-1011 as a Fun Line Product. Maybe too complicated or something? Maybe they already have some other projects behind to pull off to begin another Pro Line plane?

Anyway a big percent of the simmers around are unhappy as hell and will probably not satisfied with a Pro L-1011 even if it's good enough.

I support them as I always have and will certainly get the model when the base pack is out and if it convinces me of course. I'm not currently interested enough to buy the other people's L-1011, Captain Sim's exterior model is better, you can tell from a km, now let's see what they shall present to us when they're done.
  

R. Aranda S.

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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #6 - Apr 15th, 2013 at 3:29pm
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When I realised that it was Fun line, that's about when I made up my mind about whether to by it or not. I want to be able to operate a plane as closely as possible to the normal procedures. Being a fun line product, that will not be possible I suppose.

I also know that the posts made in this topic will to a certainty of 99.99999% not have any effect at all at the decision to make it a fun line product.

Johan Nordqvist
  

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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #7 - Apr 15th, 2013 at 6:54pm
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R. Aranda S. wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 5:17am:
Captain Sim has made "Pro Line" 707, 727 and classic 737 and I don't know why, having such extensive experience and bases, are going to take their time producing a L-1011 as a Fun Line Product. Maybe too complicated or something?


I think it's because of direct lift control, a system totally unique for Tristar...

When flaps are set for landing it basically deploys spoilers, so when you want to increase descent rate and you push yoke forward a bit instead of pitch decreasing it makes spoilers to deploy more, resulting in higher descent rate. When you pull the yoke backwards it reduces amount of spoilers, thus makes your descent rate less.

Modeling this behavior properly would sure require a lot of complex custom code and system modeling, so I guess that's the reason for going with fun line with Tristar.
  

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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #8 - Apr 16th, 2013 at 4:31am
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Pvjinflight wrote on Apr 15th, 2013 at 6:54pm:
R. Aranda S. wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 5:17am:
Captain Sim has made "Pro Line" 707, 727 and classic 737 and I don't know why, having such extensive experience and bases, are going to take their time producing a L-1011 as a Fun Line Product. Maybe too complicated or something?


I think it's because of direct lift control, a system totally unique for Tristar...

When flaps are set for landing it basically deploys spoilers, so when you want to increase descent rate and you push yoke forward a bit instead of pitch decreasing it makes spoilers to deploy more, resulting in higher descent rate. When you pull the yoke backwards it reduces amount of spoilers, thus makes your descent rate less.

Modeling this behavior properly would sure require a lot of complex custom code and system modeling, so I guess that's the reason for going with fun line with Tristar.


and exactly this is a pitty!

DLC on the Tristar used spoilers and ailerons to control the lift during a glidepath descend. At Flaps 33° ailerons were set to a +7° upward-neutral position and spoilers were deployed to +11° neutral position. Any pitch input by the yoke was converted into a spoiler deflection, which would alter the ROD but keep the Pitch the same.

Actually to realise that in FSX one would have to "really" use the spoilers. The basic principle is easy, but I guess the devil is in the details and the fine tuning is really hard.

By the way, the system is not unique to the Tristar - It is also used on the Airbus A330/A340 in a similar way. Actually quite a funny story - so we heard in our ATPL class from our teacher who is an Ex-Tristar Flight Engineer: Airbus developed a whole new system that controls your descend path via the help of spoilers and also uses the ailerons to assist the flaps/descend. When the first Tristar Pilots got their type-rating on the A330 Airbus told them about the new and revolutionary system and they weren't that supprised. In fact, they already new such a system from their 70's Tristars! After discovering that, Airbus approached Lockheed and they realized they had developed something that already was in existance for several decades!

Later today, I will scan a few pages of the tristar book I have (it's in german only). It has a very detailed description of the Tristar-Systems, DLC and also some other parts that might be very intresting.
  
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Kapitan
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #9 - Apr 16th, 2013 at 12:44pm
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Markoz wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 4:09pm:
If the L-1011 VC is going to be anything like the B-52 VC, then it will be great. But with more advanced systems, it would be awesome. Grin


Markoz
I dont own the b52, what is it like? judging by the internal pics I didnt like the graphics.
  

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Kapitan
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #10 - Apr 16th, 2013 at 12:49pm
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All of you are hiting the Pro ...which I also endorse, it would be great.

I read some of you have bought the Just Flight L1011 and merged the cockpit into CS.

I ask those guys...Isnt JF also a fun line cockpit...I bet it is.

So are you complaining in the same strength to Just Flight or whoever the developpers are?

Lets face it...only CS and P ,M,D.G make realsitic sims.
I hope the L1011 is a pro but I would think it very difficult for this to happen since information on systems and real pilots available to give software support is practically unavailable.
  

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Jettrader
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #11 - Apr 16th, 2013 at 3:04pm
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Kapitan wrote on Apr 16th, 2013 at 12:49pm:
All of you are hiting the Pro ...which I also endorse, it would be great.

I read some of you have bought the Just Flight L1011 and merged the cockpit into CS.

I ask those guys...Isnt JF also a fun line cockpit...I bet it is.

So are you complaining in the same strength to Just Flight or whoever the developpers are?

Lets face it...only CS and P ,M,D.G make realsitic sims.
I hope the L1011 is a pro but I would think it very difficult for this to happen since information on systems and real pilots available to give software support is practically unavailable.


I disagree with some aspects of your comment: JustFlight has the reputation to serve the market of "light" aircrafts, which are easy to use. Of course their cockpit is not professional and this is where Captain Sim can score!

In terms of graphics CS is top notch - in terms of system modelling it is only partially realistic. Like you say: other and CS are the only developers making realistic sims -> I disagree.
I could name you alot of CS addons that appear to be realistic, but in fact are not!

Captain Sim has the chance to cover a niche on the market (L1011) that nobody has claimed so far. It's easy to fill, but would be great to fill with something professional. TriStar pilots nowadays are rare, but it's achieveable.

As said, one of my teachers is an ex-tristar Flight Engineer and he's currently providing me with alot of technical information on the L1011 (documents, charts etc). During our ATPL class we refer alot to the Tristar to demonstrate how system are connected and working. (Even into the small detail like how to adjust the generator frequency on the Tristar)
  
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Kapitan
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #12 - Apr 17th, 2013 at 1:06am
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Jettrader wrote on Apr 16th, 2013 at 3:04pm:
Kapitan wrote on Apr 16th, 2013 at 12:49pm:
All of you are hiting the Pro ...which I also endorse, it would be great.

I read some of you have bought the Just Flight L1011 and merged the cockpit into CS.

I ask those guys...Isnt JF also a fun line cockpit...I bet it is.

So are you complaining in the same strength to Just Flight or whoever the developpers are?

Lets face it...only CS and P ,M,D.G make realsitic sims.
I hope the L1011 is a pro but I would think it very difficult for this to happen since information on systems and real pilots available to give software support is practically unavailable.


I disagree with some aspects of your comment: JustFlight has the reputation to serve the market of "light" aircrafts, which are easy to use. Of course their cockpit is not professional and this is where Captain Sim can score!

In terms of graphics CS is top notch - in terms of system modelling it is only partially realistic. Like you say: other and CS are the only developers making realistic sims -> I disagree.
I could name you alot of CS addons that appear to be realistic, but in fact are not!

Captain Sim has the chance to cover a niche on the market (L1011) that nobody has claimed so far. It's easy to fill, but would be great to fill with something professional. TriStar pilots nowadays are rare, but it's achieveable.

As said, one of my teachers is an ex-tristar Flight Engineer and he's currently providing me with alot of technical information on the L1011 (documents, charts etc). During our ATPL class we refer alot to the Tristar to demonstrate how system are connected and working. (Even into the small detail like how to adjust the generator frequency on the Tristar)


Maybe I didnt clarify in detail. True the other is probably more realistic, but only because its line are modern current jets where they have all the necessary info available. CS does out of line classics, and in its line they are the most realistic, excluding a few like B52, Hercules and the other military.

Also dont forget that the other only turned out a pro with intense realism very recently, while when CS delivered its first airliner addon, the 727, this was back in ...what year? 2004 i think. By that time there were very few addons like this one and P/M/D/G didnt have a par addon.

The main difficulty when developping classics is that your market are veterans aging folks, a smaller market than the other, with many more difficulties to access a real machine in which to base itself, while the other has plenty of machines flying all over the world.

Modelling and dynamics, here a taste area, I believe there are so many variables non simulated or controlled that its a joke to say that some addon is realistic in this sense. I prefer a cockpit where all the switches work, to a plane with a basic cockpit and a better modelling air file.
  

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Pvjinflight
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #13 - Apr 17th, 2013 at 10:52am
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Kapitan wrote on Apr 16th, 2013 at 12:49pm:
All of you are hiting the Pro ...which I also endorse, it would be great.

I read some of you have bought the Just Flight L1011 and merged the cockpit into CS.

I ask those guys...Isnt JF also a fun line cockpit...I bet it is.

So are you complaining in the same strength to Just Flight or whoever the developpers are?

Lets face it...only CS and P ,M,D.G make realsitic sims.
I hope the L1011 is a pro but I would think it very difficult for this to happen since information on systems and real pilots available to give software support is practically unavailable.


Just because people are using JF VC merged with CS (as that's the best combination available right now) doesn't mean that they wouldn't rather have a complete system simulation.

"The main difficulty when developping classics is that your market are veterans aging folks, a smaller market than the other, with many more difficulties to access a real machine in which to base itself, while the other has plenty of machines flying all over the world."

Well I don't think the FS market for these addons is any older than market for more modern jetliners, though sure it's true that finding active pilots who can give feedback based on real world experience is kinda difficult with Tristar and other such old birds.
  

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Kapitan
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #14 - Apr 17th, 2013 at 11:36am
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Pvjinflight wrote on Apr 17th, 2013 at 10:52am:
[quote author=Kapitan link=1365501334/0#10 date=1366116550]All of Well I don't think the FS market for these addons is any older than market for more modern jetliners, though sure it's true that finding active pilots who can give feedback based on real world experience is kinda difficult with Tristar and other such old birds.


I meant its a smaller market, and most probably the average age of simmers from classics is higher than modern current glass cockpits.

All the teenagers from 12 to the young guys up to 30 will, today, think of an airplane as an Airbus or a 737ngx. That is their world, that is all they saw in their lives. They have no life experience to relate to classics.

Most of them dislike the analogue jets from the 60s and 70s, its not their first choice when buying an addon. When I was a teen, I hated the Junker JU52, or a DC6, these were outdated museum planes, I loved Caravelles, comets and 707s.

Today its the same thing. The Tristar wont atract the young ones in general, thus creating a smaller market. That is what I meant.
  

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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #15 - Apr 17th, 2013 at 11:41am
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same for me! Im not interested in modern jets. No fun to fly it.
I just flew 707-300C on a 5 hours trip from Tel Aviv to London, had tons of fun, and didnt used a time compression. Thats what i like. TOGW was 320000 lbs, almost max! bird was heavy and slow on climb Smiley

Vintage airliners have same market with the modern jets. Thats what i think Smiley
  
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #16 - Apr 18th, 2013 at 3:57pm
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Kapitan wrote on Apr 17th, 2013 at 11:36am:
[quote author=Camper link=1365501334/0#13 date=1366195976][quote author=Kapitan link=1365501334/0#10 date=1366116550]

Most of them dislike the analogue jets from the 60s and 70s, its not their first choice when buying an addon. When I was a teen, I hated the Junker JU52, or a DC6, these were outdated museum planes, I loved Caravelles, comets and 707s.

Today its the same thing. The Tristar wont atract the young ones in general, thus creating a smaller market. That is what I meant.


I wouldn't say that flightsimming is a young man's pursuit. It might be 15-20 years ago but not now. These days the youngest flightsimmers are the people who grew up with FS9/FSX, and they would've been in their mid-20s by now with genuine interest in aviation.

The real problem with very old aircraft (like those propliners) is the lack of information available on the internet, and people who doesn't read old aviation books often find these aircraft difficult to relate to. With the L-1011 you still got some people, usually retired pilots and engineers talking about it in the internet forums and there are lots of cool pictures online. To be honest I wouldn't have been interested in the Tristar had it not for 411A's (RIP) interesting comments and discussions in the PPrune and Airliners.net forums.

In a way these classic jets are like that old Kai Tak airport in Hong Kong, it's been gone for 15 years yet many people are still interested in it because of the videos on Youtube. The same cannot be said for The DC-6, Croydon Airport or the 4-course radio range.
  

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Driver8
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #17 - Apr 19th, 2013 at 5:13am
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While this is going to be a definite purchase for me once the full product is done, I would REALLY wish this to be a Pro-Line aircraft.  This is THE aircraft I have been waiting for to be done well in FSX, and I for one would be willing to pay more for a Pro-Line version of this aircraft than any other aircraft out there Smiley

The L-1011 may very well be my favorite passenger aircraft ever (possibly due to the fact that one of the first flights I can ever remember being on as a kid was aboard an Eastern L-1011 Smiley ).  To have a full version of this aircraft with as many systems modeled as accurately as possible would be like my dream come true, with regards to Flight Simulation anyway!
  
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #18 - Apr 19th, 2013 at 5:57am
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Avantime wrote on Apr 18th, 2013 at 3:57pm:
Kapitan wrote on Apr 17th, 2013 at 11:36am:
[quote author=Camper link=1365501334/0#13 date=1366195976][quote author=Kapitan link=1365501334/0#10 date=1366116550]

Most of them dislike the analogue jets from the 60s and 70s, its not their first choice when buying an addon. When I was a teen, I hated the Junker JU52, or a DC6, these were outdated museum planes, I loved Caravelles, comets and 707s.

Today its the same thing. The Tristar wont atract the young ones in general, thus creating a smaller market. That is what I meant.


I wouldn't say that flightsimming is a young man's pursuit. It might be 15-20 years ago but not now. These days the youngest flightsimmers are the people who grew up with FS9/FSX, and they would've been in their mid-20s by now with genuine interest in aviation.

The real problem with very old aircraft (like those propliners) is the lack of information available on the internet, and people who doesn't read old aviation books often find these aircraft difficult to relate to. With the L-1011 you still got some people, usually retired pilots and engineers talking about it in the internet forums and there are lots of cool pictures online. To be honest I wouldn't have been interested in the Tristar had it not for 411A's (RIP) interesting comments and discussions in the PPrune and Airliners.net forums.

In a way these classic jets are like that old Kai Tak airport in Hong Kong, it's been gone for 15 years yet many people are still interested in it because of the videos on Youtube. The same cannot be said for The DC-6, Croydon Airport or the 4-course radio range.


spot on! But I also have to agree with Kapitan, the Tristar is only intresting for a small niche of the market. However, if done properly, I can imagine it attracting alot of attention.

Regarding the lack of documents is one thing - but there are (even for the tristar) substantial information sources (check out my thread: http://captainsim.org/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1366318548). I think it's more a matter of accepting a task that requires great diligence!

I still have good memories, even if I was a child then, flying on Air Canada's Tristars (and Canadi>n DC-10's) in the late 80's/early 90's!
  
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #19 - Aug 14th, 2013 at 11:43am
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+15489 about a Pro-Line release!!!!
  
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #20 - Nov 23rd, 2013 at 9:40pm
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just forked over my 10 euros to check out the model. Definitely hoping for a Pro-Line, but honestly, I'll take what I can get.. but there hasn't been anything even close to resembling a systems sim for the L1011 since that FS2002 freeware dev made a panel with a few systems on it, then turned it to payware and watched it vanish from the face of the earth.. so even if it only has partial systems, it will be better than anything since FS2002....  so gonna keep my fingers crossed Smiley I heard the "other" FSX Tristar was a disaster, so I steered clear of it, especially for the price they were asking.. guess a lot of people were disappointed..
  

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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #21 - Nov 24th, 2013 at 5:10am
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Captain Sim, I expect, will give this a VC some time in the future. I only say this because I don't think they have any products at all that don't come with either a VC, or 2D Panel (except maybe the L-39 Jet Trainer for FS2002/CFS2).
So the only real question is, how much systems will it have? Only enough to keep it a Fun Line product, or much more in-depth to make it a Pro Line product?
The good thing about the Pro Line products, is that you get the variety of different models, rather than just the one.
  

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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #22 - Nov 24th, 2013 at 8:23am
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This is the last real life simulator I worked on when I was at CAE  in Montreal , and it was the development simulator for Lockheed. I was at the Lockheed plant in Palmdale . there were problems with the Rolls Royce engines that almost put Rolls Royce out of business. That delay really hurt Lockheed's sales . I certainly hope that CS completes the panel for this bird as I have a sentimental attachment to it . That being said, I am still having fun with the JF model , but have'nt mastered the INS yet. Undecided Undecided Ron
  

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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #23 - Nov 25th, 2013 at 4:32am
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Markoz wrote on Nov 24th, 2013 at 5:10am:
Captain Sim, I expect, will give this a VC some time in the future. I only say this because I don't think they have any products at all that don't come with either a VC, or 2D Panel (except maybe the L-39 Jet Trainer for FS2002/CFS2).
So the only real question is, how much systems will it have? Only enough to keep it a Fun Line product, or much more in-depth to make it a Pro Line product?
The good thing about the Pro Line products, is that you get the variety of different models, rather than just the one.

at the bottom of the product page it gives a link to previews of the interior VC...  it's looking pretty good...  so yeah, the only real question is what kind of systems simulation will it have... even if they don't go to the full spoiler simulation or autoland, but still have it pretty immersive, then it should be good.. but if it's going to be all visuals and no substance, then I've spent all I'm going to spend and just continue with my OM merge, like every other Tristar I've got..
  

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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #24 - Nov 25th, 2013 at 6:22am
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R_Aldrich wrote on Nov 25th, 2013 at 4:32am:
at the bottom of the product page it gives a link to previews of the interior VC...  it's looking pretty good...  so yeah, the only real question is what kind of systems simulation will it have... even if they don't go to the full spoiler simulation or autoland, but still have it pretty immersive, then it should be good.. but if it's going to be all visuals and no substance, then I've spent all I'm going to spend and just continue with my OM merge, like every other Tristar I've got..

I had forgotten about that! Fancy forgetting that! Sheesh! Undecided

I'm hoping for a really good replication of a real TriStar, not that I would know what it's really like, but it makes it more "real", if I can use that term, for me. Cheesy
  

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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #25 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 6:07am
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Happily surprised Smiley way to go Captain Sim
  

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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #26 - Feb 2nd, 2014 at 5:32am
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I would love this product to come with a virtual cabin like those with the Boeing 767 and Boeing 777 ProLine products. I'd happily pay extra for the feature too. Cheesy
  
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #27 - Feb 2nd, 2014 at 8:44am
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DKW1984 wrote on Feb 2nd, 2014 at 5:32am:
I would love this product to come with a virtual cabin like those with the Boeing 767 and Boeing 777 ProLine products. I'd happily pay extra for the feature too. Cheesy


Yeah, me too!
  
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #28 - Feb 2nd, 2014 at 10:21am
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McCartney95 wrote on Feb 2nd, 2014 at 8:44am:
DKW1984 wrote on Feb 2nd, 2014 at 5:32am:
I would love this product to come with a virtual cabin like those with the Boeing 767 and Boeing 777 ProLine products. I'd happily pay extra for the feature too. Cheesy


Yeah, me too!


Me not, at all  Grin
I'm sooooo happy it has no virtual cabin, as I would have never used it and it would have destroyed my frames.
  

Regards and always happy landings,&&Max&&&&
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arpom
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #29 - Feb 2nd, 2014 at 1:11pm
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Same here - cockpit is my place
  
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Markoz
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #30 - Feb 2nd, 2014 at 3:09pm
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maxs wrote on Feb 2nd, 2014 at 10:21am:
McCartney95 wrote on Feb 2nd, 2014 at 8:44am:
DKW1984 wrote on Feb 2nd, 2014 at 5:32am:
I would love this product to come with a virtual cabin like those with the Boeing 767 and Boeing 777 ProLine products. I'd happily pay extra for the feature too. Cheesy


Yeah, me too!


Me not, at all  Grin
I'm sooooo happy it has no virtual cabin, as I would have never used it and it would have destroyed my frames.

The 707 comes with a cabin as well, but there is an option to have the VC and Cabin, or just the VC, so if it came with that option, what's the problem? Having it like that, every one can be happy. Grin
  

Mark Fletcher

i7 6700K @ 4.0GHz | Corsair H80i Liquid Cooling | 32GB DDR4 | 6GB GTX1060 Xtreme Gaming | 27" LCD Monitor | 1x2TB SSHD, 2x2TB HDD, 1x4TB HDD, 1x275GB SSD | Win 7 Pro 64 & Win 10 Pro 64
FSX, FSX-SE, & P3Dv1/v2/v3/v4
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Chris the Swiss
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #31 - Feb 2nd, 2014 at 4:41pm
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+1
Thank you, Mark.
Chris
  
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DKW1984
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #32 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:02am
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And that's ok, it's not for everyone, I would like the cabin possibly as an "add on" feature. The L1011 is out of pax service forever now and it would be wonderful to tour her from flight deck to the aft C corridor that connects the aisles and has the aft lavs!! On the ground door closure for pushback to cabin walk about during the cruise whilst the autopilot keeps control. Please CS, I rarely beg! Hehe  Cheesy
  
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Markoz
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Re: Pro line :)
Reply #33 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 8:57am
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The simple task of placing a checkmark in the box for Flight Deck Only, on the ACE, so you can have only the VC, or the VC and the Cabin! Simple! And to be fair, perhaps it should be ONLY the VC by default, while those of us who want the Cabin as well, would need to checkmark a box to include it with the VC.

http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv58/Markoz958/CS707_FlightDeckOnly_option_zp...
In the CS707 ACE, the simple action of clicking on the box beside Flight Deck Only

http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv58/Markoz958/CS707_light_v_full_zps0de2ad55...
Notice the different file names in the model folder? Selecting Flight Deck Only changes the file csx701_interior_light.mdl to csx701_interior.mdl so that only the VC is available.
As you can see by the size of my csx701_interior.mdl, that I am using the VC and Cabin csx701_interior_full.mdl (12.2MB).

Is that so hard to do? I would be just as happy even if they made the Flight Deck Only the default, so that those of us wanting to have the Cabin, have to use ACE to select it. It really is that simple. Grin Wink
  

Mark Fletcher

i7 6700K @ 4.0GHz | Corsair H80i Liquid Cooling | 32GB DDR4 | 6GB GTX1060 Xtreme Gaming | 27" LCD Monitor | 1x2TB SSHD, 2x2TB HDD, 1x4TB HDD, 1x275GB SSD | Win 7 Pro 64 & Win 10 Pro 64
FSX, FSX-SE, & P3Dv1/v2/v3/v4
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