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 25 AUTOPILOT-the only thread please (Read 32959 times)
dandi99
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AUTOPILOT-the only thread please
Feb 12th, 2009 at 5:08pm
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Hy guys,

I have two questions about the Autopilot of the B 727
How can I use the FSX-Flight Plan or the GPS for an auto flight?
How can I adjust the V/S

Thanks
David
  
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Bob Markey
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Re: Autopilot
Reply #1 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 8:30pm
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Hi David.

The B727 did not come equipped with GPS from the factory (GPS didn't exist during its production run).  They have been retro-fitted though, and CS has silently implied that a GPS system may be provided in the future, as one is shown ahead of the control stand.

It will require a NAV/GPS switch, which I've not seen in the cockpit, and not investigated to see if one exists in the configuration.  We will maybe have to wait for the next manual to be released and/or the next SP to know for sure.

If you have a key set for NAV/GPS, you may wish to test this:

1) tune your NAV radio to some VOR or ILS that's nearby that you can receive a signal, and turn the course knob until it shows flight path deviation.
2) program the Garmin 500 GPS for a direct route someplace.
3) Press the key you have assigned for NAV/GPS, and see if the HSI deviation changes.

If so, then you can set this keypress to select the GPS instead of NAV, and use the VOR/LOC mode on the AP to track the GPS waypoint data.

I've not tested this, so I couldn't tell you if it works or not.

As for your FP questions-

The oldschool sperry AP in the B727 could only control pitch and roll.  It would not calculate pitch variance to maintain a vertical speed.

If you engage the AP shortly after take-off, it goes into hold mode for the command selected.  There are two commands on this AP, AIL and ELEV.  AIL being roll, ELEV being pitch.  You can't engage ELEV without AIL already engaged.

So, in our hypothetical situation... you roll out, V1, VR, pitch up ~10 degrees, hold it there thru V2, reach down and flip on the AIL/ELEV commands and let go.  At this point, the AP will hold your roll right where you left it (hopefully wing level) and hold your pitch right where you left it (hopefully still near 10 degrees nose up).

It will stay exactly like this unless you tell it otherwise.

So, how do you tell it otherwise?

There are two ways.  With the pitch/roll command knob to the left of the engage levers, or with the Alt/Hdg hold switches to the right of the engage levers.

If you turn the pitch roll knob left, the plane will begin to roll left, to the approximate degrees commanded on the knob.  If you nudge the knob forward, a few times, you will convince the AP to nose down attitude slightly.  Nudge it a few more times, and it will move a little more.  The difference is minor, it may take 20 "nudges" to change the pitch by 10 degrees, I've never counted to be honest.

This is where you're changing the vertical speed, but you must be PIC when doing this... your attitude and your airspeed will both affect the rate of climb/descent, so 10 degrees at 160 knots is not going to climb the same as 10 degrees at 250 knots.  And, since the VSI is broken on the plane right now  Cry you'll have to watch the altimeter and do some best guesses for how fast you're really climbing or descending.

The second way of telling the AP what to do is to use one of the hold switches.  Hdg Hold is what we're all used to from any AP, for the most part.  Click it on, and the plane will hold its present heading, and level the wings if it's banked any.  Turn the heading bug, and it will turn to that heading.  Alt Hold is sort-of what we're used to with any AP, but it says "at the very moment this switch is engaged, level the plane and maintain the altitude at that very moment to the nearest hundred feet."

To explain differently what I just said, let's take this example:

We're climbing about 1000 fpm towards our target cruise altitude.
As we get to 900 ft below (the Alt Alert chime sounds) we begin commanding the plane to slowly pitch nose down to slow the rate of ascent.  As we get within about +/- 49 feet from the target altitude, we flip the Alt Hold switch.  At this point, the plane finishes rolling out flat, and re-trims itself to hold that altitude as best as possible, regardless of how the airspeed rises or drops.

Or, you could climb 6000 fpm and flick the Alt Hold switch and the plane will continue climbing hundreds (or thousands) of feet above that, and then will begin to pitch down to descend back to that altitude.

So, If my target is FL230, I would command it to hold somewhere around 22,951 ft.  If I command it to hold before that, it will choose to hold 22,900.

So yeah, in short, there is no cap alititude setting (the altitude setting only sets off the alt alert chime and light) and there is no VS setting.  It's up to the pilot to tell the AP how to fly the plane.
  

NOTE: I'm on hiatus, concentrating on flight training.  Most of what I'm flying right now is a C172N similar to what I'm training in.  I'll try to check in and answer questions when I can, but please don't be impatient, I have other priorities right now! Cheesy&&&&I'm not a professional pilot, but I play one on the Internet!&&&&Captain Sim 757-200/-300/Freighter FSX (62.51 hours)&&Captain Sim 727-100 FSX (26.74 hours)&&Captain Sim C-130 X-perience FSX (15.05 hours)&&Hours last updated Aug 29, 2009 18:44Z.&&&&System: AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-core 2.5Ghz, 8GB RAM, nVidia 9600GT 512MB, Windows XP 64-bit, FS9/FSX, Saitek Pro Flight Yoke System, CH Pro Pedals&&&&Join us on the Ultimate Global Tour FSHost Server - 3000 Flight Plans to every country on every continent.  FSX users will need FSHostClient to connect.
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dandi99
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Re: Autopilot
Reply #2 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 10:58pm
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Thanks for this great answer! Grin Grin Grin Grin

  
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afmoose
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Re: Autopilot
Reply #3 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 2:30am
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You can assign a keystroke or joystick button within FSX to switch between Nav and GPS. I have done this and it works great. Hit the switch and then turn on VOR/LOC mode on the autopilot. You just have to remember to hit the switch again before trying to capture a localizer and glideslope.

Gary
  

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phil29
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Autopilot Manipulation
Reply #4 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 8:15pm
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Is there any way to assign a key or joystick assignment to control the autopilot when it is in MAN mode?  I have a little trouble accurately manipulating the pitch and roll controller of the autopilot.  If there isn't a way to assign a key to those functions, it may be advisable to add it in.  Anyone have any advise?
  
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Bob Markey
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Re: Autopilot Manipulation
Reply #5 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 8:33pm
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I don't think there is, unless maybe you have a registered copy of FSUIPC and if CS has made it possible to manipulate through FSUIPC.

I find it impossible to use the pitch/roll knob in the VC, as any pitch command invariably gets interpreted as a desire to roll.

I have the 2D pop-up AP panel on my 2nd monitor at all times for handy use, or you can use the buttonbar panel or press Shift-4 to access it.

So long as you click above center or below center on the 2D panel, it always interprets it as a pitch change and never a roll change.

Hope it helps. Cool
  

NOTE: I'm on hiatus, concentrating on flight training.  Most of what I'm flying right now is a C172N similar to what I'm training in.  I'll try to check in and answer questions when I can, but please don't be impatient, I have other priorities right now! Cheesy&&&&I'm not a professional pilot, but I play one on the Internet!&&&&Captain Sim 757-200/-300/Freighter FSX (62.51 hours)&&Captain Sim 727-100 FSX (26.74 hours)&&Captain Sim C-130 X-perience FSX (15.05 hours)&&Hours last updated Aug 29, 2009 18:44Z.&&&&System: AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-core 2.5Ghz, 8GB RAM, nVidia 9600GT 512MB, Windows XP 64-bit, FS9/FSX, Saitek Pro Flight Yoke System, CH Pro Pedals&&&&Join us on the Ultimate Global Tour FSHost Server - 3000 Flight Plans to every country on every continent.  FSX users will need FSHostClient to connect.
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phil29
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Re: Autopilot Manipulation
Reply #6 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 9:21pm
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I didnt even consider using a popup panel since the 727 was designed almost primarily for VC use.  Thats cool then, ill just use the 2D popup to manipulate it for the time being.  Thanks.
  
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Michael2
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Re: Autopilot Manipulation
Reply #7 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 9:25pm
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The pop-up is certainly easiest, but I have found that the trick in the VC for the pitch control is to move the mouse vertically on the monitor, regardless of how the control appears to be angled in the VC.  Failure to move the mouse vertically with respect to monitor as the only reference will result in commanding a turn.
  
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Bob Markey
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Re: Autopilot Manipulation
Reply #8 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 9:52pm
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Interesting Michael.  I had not considered that the control would be relative to mouse orientation rather than knob orientation.

It certainly would be nice to have a way to control it from an external source, though.  Imagine the people who may wish to build something like a home simpit panel for it.
  

NOTE: I'm on hiatus, concentrating on flight training.  Most of what I'm flying right now is a C172N similar to what I'm training in.  I'll try to check in and answer questions when I can, but please don't be impatient, I have other priorities right now! Cheesy&&&&I'm not a professional pilot, but I play one on the Internet!&&&&Captain Sim 757-200/-300/Freighter FSX (62.51 hours)&&Captain Sim 727-100 FSX (26.74 hours)&&Captain Sim C-130 X-perience FSX (15.05 hours)&&Hours last updated Aug 29, 2009 18:44Z.&&&&System: AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-core 2.5Ghz, 8GB RAM, nVidia 9600GT 512MB, Windows XP 64-bit, FS9/FSX, Saitek Pro Flight Yoke System, CH Pro Pedals&&&&Join us on the Ultimate Global Tour FSHost Server - 3000 Flight Plans to every country on every continent.  FSX users will need FSHostClient to connect.
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phil29
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Re: Autopilot Manipulation
Reply #9 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 5:02am
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Right, I realized that as well, the only problem is that its still incredibly sensitive and usually on something like a departure there isnt a whole lot of time to surgically try and manipulate the controls.  I almost always end up banking when I try to move it, but the popup is working great.
  
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Michael2
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Re: AUTOPILOT-the only thread please
Reply #10 - Feb 16th, 2009 at 6:23am
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Here is a copy and paste of the last support ticket I submitted. Does anyone else have this problem:

The autopilot heading select mode stops working when altitude hold is turned off.
When I change the heading bug on the VSI the autopilot begins a turn.  If I then turn off altitude hold in order to descend or climb, the aircraft then holds the current heading, even though the turn to the bug has not completed.
Turning off altitude hold should not have any effect on the heading select mode.
  
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Michael2
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Flight director problems.
Reply #11 - Feb 15th, 2009 at 11:34pm
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Does it work for anyone? I can't get it to work and I have no reply to my support ticket.  The only way it will do anything is if I turn the autopilot on and then off.  It will then work (to some degree) in response to the autopilot settings, but it never responds to the setting I have on the flight director itself.  Futhermore, once the bars come out, there is no setting that will remove them.

Is there something wrong with my install, or is it equally broken for everyone?
  
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Bob Markey
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Re: AUTOPILOT-the only thread please
Reply #12 - Feb 16th, 2009 at 7:44pm
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Michael,

There are a few "glitches" in the AP yet.  Should be fixed in the next SP, I would hope.

I haven't experienced an issue with the Alt Hold turning off the Hdg Hold.  What I do have happen is when I switch from MAN to NAV/LOC, the Alt Hold also turns off, even though NAV/LOC has nothing to do with Alt.  I have to constantly remind myself that I will have to re-engage Alt Hold when I make the switch.

Another thing is when switching from NAV/LOC to AUTO GS, if I an not yet in range to intercept either the localizer or the glideslope, it still will turn off both Alt and Hdg holds.  I don't think it's supposed to turn off either until it's in position to begin interception.

I don't know if that's accurate or not, but if it's something that was overlooked in testing, it will hopefully be fixed in the first SP release.
  

NOTE: I'm on hiatus, concentrating on flight training.  Most of what I'm flying right now is a C172N similar to what I'm training in.  I'll try to check in and answer questions when I can, but please don't be impatient, I have other priorities right now! Cheesy&&&&I'm not a professional pilot, but I play one on the Internet!&&&&Captain Sim 757-200/-300/Freighter FSX (62.51 hours)&&Captain Sim 727-100 FSX (26.74 hours)&&Captain Sim C-130 X-perience FSX (15.05 hours)&&Hours last updated Aug 29, 2009 18:44Z.&&&&System: AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-core 2.5Ghz, 8GB RAM, nVidia 9600GT 512MB, Windows XP 64-bit, FS9/FSX, Saitek Pro Flight Yoke System, CH Pro Pedals&&&&Join us on the Ultimate Global Tour FSHost Server - 3000 Flight Plans to every country on every continent.  FSX users will need FSHostClient to connect.
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fridrik
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Auto-Pilot
Reply #13 - Jun 2nd, 2009 at 1:16pm
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Hi there simmers

I just bought the 727 package and i have a question,where is the autopilot for the speed?
Can someone tell me where Auto-Pilot engage for the speed is on the panel?
I want to go head and hold the speed for the landings Huh

regards
Fridrik
  
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JayG
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Glide slope capture hosed?
Reply #14 - Mar 29th, 2009 at 3:36pm
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Great looking and flying plane BUT, I have yet to find the secret to capturing the GS with the AP. I always intercept from below and as soon as I engage the AP for APPR the plane dives even though I am below the GS.

Its not big deal to hand fly the approach, but it should be working. Is it just me or are others having this problem? I thought I saw other threads on this but I can't find them now.
  

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